The tally thus far...

lunde said:
md02geist, you wrote:I am glad that you asked.

In this part of the country, prairie dogs are extraordinarily over-populated. I am sure that we (humans) are to blame, either because we killed off their natural predators, or poisoned the prairie dogs (which, of course, never kills them all) which subsequently poisoned their natural predators.

So, shooting them, to help bring their population under control, is a good solution. If they are not shot, the ranchers and farmers resort to poisoning them, which ends up making the problem worse for the long-term, but perhaps better for the short-term.

And, while hunting prairie dogs, I never shoot at their natural predators, because they're doing what we're doing. In fact, their natural predators benefit a bit from our hunting, because they end up policing up the bodies, or what's left of them, to use as food.

On the other side of the same coin, hunting prairie dogs is excellent practice for hunting larger game. Shooting a small target at somewhat long range helps to hone the skills, so when you have a larger target at the same or closer distance, your chance of hitting it in a vital area is greater.

In many ways, hunting has become a polarizing issue. Many people are for it, but there are an equal number of people against it.

There is one thing that I don't get, specifically people paying to hunt prairie dogs. Heck, you're doing the landowner a huge favor by hunting them. I have never paid to hunt prairie dogs, and never will. My only expenses are for travel, handloading my ammunition, and gear. My current rifle, a Cooper Arms M21 Phoenix chambered in .204 Ruger, has exactly 825 rounds through it, most of which have sent prairie dogs to Prairie Dog Heaven. All of these rounds were handloaded by yours truly, and most of them represent once- or subsequently-fired rounds.

Oh, and I hunt pronghorn antelope every year, and my family and I consume all of the meat that I get from the animal.

Lastly, the chance of me becoming a "serial killer" is somewhere between zero and none. I am one of the calmest people on the planet. Those who know me understand this.
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Let me preface my response by saying that I was in no way insinuating that you or any other member of this board was more apt to become a serial killer because you shoot little critters. I simply recalled hearing something about how serial killers usually started with small animals, and the graphic pictures of prarie dogs being blown apart above (I'm not squeamish at all, but they seemed a bit much to me) reminded me of this. Nor do I intend any offense whatsoever to any of you, however I'm the type of person that speaks my mind even when it won't be popular opinion.

I understand your particular reasoning behind shooting them lunde, and I respect that you took the time to give me an honest thorough answer rather than kneejerk and get angry with me (which to be honest, this being the internet, I sort of expected to get). Much in the same way that in my area deer are very overpopulated, so I don't feel bad when people take them down. However at least with deer, they get to eat the meat / use the antlers / etc.

I can certainly see shooting them as a much better, less negative overall way to take care of them than poison. Not only is the bullet (hopefully) a faster kill, but as you stated this way the poison doesn't spread to their natural predators thus defeating your efforts at extermination.

I still cannot, however, understand why one would revel or glory in such mundane kills -- it'd be like if I walked into a kindgergarten class and whipped every one of them, and then went on tv to brag about it. Granted we are talking humans vs non-humans, etc...but you get my point. To celebrate killing something that never had even the remotest chance against you just goes against my grain, and my general respect for nature. If they are pests and require elimination, great....do what you have to do. But why throw a party over it?


And for the record in case anyone is wondering, no I do not hunt. I do however fish both spear and rod, and I do possess many firearms. I do NOT have anything against responsible hunters whatsoever.
 
No, not at all. Off-topic is practically the norm. We have tended here, though, to let readers know when the hunting pics will be bloody. You don't often post here, so it is understandable that you were unaware of this convention.

(response to BOS question at 8:40am)
 
md02geist said:
Let me preface my response by saying that I was in no way insinuating that you or any other member of this board was more apt to become a serial killer because you shoot little critters. I simply recalled hearing something about how serial killers usually started with small animals, and the graphic pictures of prarie dogs being blown apart above (I'm not squeamish at all, but they seemed a bit much to me) reminded me of this. Nor do I intend any offense whatsoever to any of you, however I'm the type of person that speaks my mind even when it won't be popular opinion.

I understand your particular reasoning behind shooting them lunde, and I respect that you took the time to give me an honest thorough answer rather than kneejerk and get angry with me (which to be honest, this being the internet, I sort of expected to get). Much in the same way that in my area deer are very overpopulated, so I don't feel bad when people take them down. However at least with deer, they get to eat the meat / use the antlers / etc.

I can certainly see shooting them as a much better, less negative overall way to take care of them than poison. Not only is the bullet (hopefully) a faster kill, but as you stated this way the poison doesn't spread to their natural predators thus defeating your efforts at extermination.

I still cannot, however, understand why one would revel or glory in such mundane kills -- it'd be like if I walked into a kindgergarten class and whipped every one of them, and then went on tv to brag about it. Granted we are talking humans vs non-humans, etc...but you get my point. To celebrate killing something that never had even the remotest chance against you just goes against my grain, and my general respect for nature. If they are pests and require elimination, great....do what you have to do. But why throw a party over it?


And for the record in case anyone is wondering, no I do not hunt. I do however fish both spear and rod, and I do possess many firearms. I do NOT have anything against responsible hunters whatsoever.
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I have to agree with you on this one. I see no point in shooting anything I will not be eating or using its fur in some way. However, I know many hunters and respect what they do it’s just not for me. If I was to shoot Prairie Dog for the reasons Lunde explained, I would not post it here because to me it would be nothing to brag about. Now, I know a lot of hunters that could and do appreciate the marksmanship involved in shooting small animals.

The most important thing for me is the impact of pictures showing small animals exploding will have on anti-gun and on the fence gun-control groups. I know most anti-gun people out there will never change their minds about guns and this will just reinforce their views. But, the ones on the fence will just be more inclined to become anti-gun after viewing pictures such as the ones posted. I live in California and I’m a strong advocate for 2nd amendment rights and will always take the time to talk with any anti-gun people to better understand their views and to share mine. This however, I just couldn’t make them understand (the pictures at least).

I have met Lunde in person and can say he seems to be a very calm and level minded person. I can also appreciate his interest in knives and firearms. Lastly, I can respect his God given right to hunt and his logic associated with shooting Prairie Dog; its just not for me (I like steel targets lol)
 
Look at how big the holes are they dig. Now picture a 10 year old little girl that has a horse she feeds,grooms,rides and is everything to her. Her family loads the horse up and go to the local arena every other week where her friends and there horses are.They have fun riding and hanging out. Now picture the young 10 year old when one day she finds her horse down in the field with a broken leg that is so bad the vet can't help the horse and with the young girl crying and wanting to stay petting his head while the vet euthanized him. The little girl is devasted.

Her dad had a few prairie dogs a few years back and took care of them and checked the field often. The horse was let out of the pen in the mornings then put back in before noon. There was one freshly p-dog hole the horse stepped in.

So when i get a call of a problem of P-dogs, coyotes, etc i will be there to help out. This was about 10 years ago and i stilll remember it!!!!
 
Jackrabbit Drives

Yonder against the hill I see them,
Their running bodies grayish brown
Amid the thickening clouds of dust!
A thousand, two thousand, maybe more
They dart against the closing lines
Of men and women, children, armed
With clubs, a swiftly closing ring.
Some crouch down behind a weed
Too small to hide them from the throng
Who're striking right and left, killing
Or stunning and going on to others.
A few escape--out through the mob
A moment more the rest remain
Tired from running, some blood stained,
And when they pause one sees their eyes;
They show no fear, instead there's something
That makes one wonder, later--not now,
There's not time now, one has to kill.

The dust is clearing, their bodies strewn
The ground, a few are kicking yet,
One squeals as it receives a final blow.
The rabbit drive is over.

Ethel Harkness


Sometimes critters need to be thinned out for many different reasons. Look at the feral hogs in the Texas, No tags, no limits, no closed season. I'm sure most are taken humanely and the food used. The ones that are left are consumed by wildlife.
 
For what it is worth, I was born and raised in Montana. And I spent many a nice summer hunting Prarie Dogs in the areas surrounding Kalispell, Flathead Lake, and in and around the Bitterroot Mountains.

If you haven't been there to experience Prarie Dog hunting, you probably won't get it. Lunde's explanation is very true, the varmints create a bad situation for ranchers and farmers who have animals.

Not only that, but it is a blast to spend a couple of hours on a ridge under a tree picking them off. It isn't cruel for the animal with the right weapons. They don't feel a thing.

Those of us who do understand, can appreciate the discourse. I appreciate you sharing your photos and experiences with us Lunde.

Best regards,

Les.
 
getrdone44 said:
Look at how big the holes are they dig. Now picture a 10 year old little girl that has a horse she feeds,grooms,rides and is everything to her. Her family loads the horse up and go to the local arena every other week where her friends and there horses are.They have fun riding and hanging out. Now picture the young 10 year old when one day she finds her horse down in the field with a broken leg that is so bad the vet can't help the horse and with the young girl crying and wanting to stay petting his head while the vet euthanized him. The little girl is devasted.

Her dad had a few prairie dogs a few years back and took care of them and checked the field often. The horse was let out of the pen in the mornings then put back in before noon. There was one freshly p-dog hole the horse stepped in.

So when i get a call of a problem of P-dogs, coyotes, etc i will be there to help out. This was about 10 years ago and i stilll remember it!!!!
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See, you guys aren't reading everything I'm saying (I'm sorry, I typed a LOT so I know it was probably easy to skim through). I do NOT have any issue with ridding pests due to overpopulation, protecting your fields, or taking care of your horses and whatnot as stated above.

My issue is not at all with doing what has to be done.

My issue is celebrating in simply doing what you have to do, and I entirely agree with POINTMANDDT that showing pictures glorifying the explosions of things hit by firearms does NOTHING to help gun rights activists or gun rights supporters. All it looks like is "a bunch of rednecks got their guns together and killed a bunch of helpeless animals and are showing off about it."

It makes people who use firearms responsibly look like they're just getting their jollies off killing things for no purpose...whether you had a reason or not, going "check it out I killed 200 prarie dogs here are pictures of their bodies exploding everywhere" just makes the shooter look sick to the outside viewer.

In addition like I said, I don't see the point in celebrating the kill of a helpless rodent. Do what you have to do (including shooting them if that is what you have to do, like you said better than poison and I am a FIRM believer that your family and well being matter more than a prarie dog's) I don't see what's so amazingly awesome about it.
 
These guys have to eat too! :D

CB049610.jpg
 
helpless rodent, helpless fish, helpless deer, helpless pig...

some game is easier than others, that has nothing to do with it.
 
ken, way awesome pics, nicely done, shows what a firearm is capable of, nice choice of steel, knives and firearms...
 
Hey md02geist if you ever EXPERIENCE what i have with the damage to people and animals from p-dogs,feral hogs, varmints we had a rabies out break a couple years ago. A elderly lady was walking when a bobcat jumped off a tree and bit her on the arm, she is ok a terrifying event,after that and other reports of rabid animals they started dropping a vaccine in a small type of food out of airplanes in the most reported areas. Again if you ever EXPERIENCE it you will see how fun it is to help eradicate them, especially p-dog known carriers of bubonic plague... The only thing is i need a better camera so i can post pics!!!

OH and you are correct about reading everything you say, because when you said REDNECK i thought you can F..K OFF!!!!!!!

REDNECKS RULE YEEHAWWW!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Ken about hijacking your thread
 
getrdone44 said:
Hey md02geist if you ever EXPERIENCE what i have with the damage to people and animals from p-dogs,feral hogs, varmints we had a rabies out break a couple years ago. A elderly lady was walking when a bobcat jumped off a tree and bit her on the arm, she is ok a terrifying event,after that and other reports of rabid animals they started dropping a vaccine in a small type of food out of airplanes in the most reported areas. Again if you ever EXPERIENCE it you will see how fun it is to help eradicate them, especially p-dog known carriers of bubonic plague... The only thing is i need a better camera so i can post pics!!!

OH and you are correct about reading everything you say, because when you said REDNECK i thought you can F..K OFF!!!!!!!

REDNECKS RULE YEEHAWWW!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Ken about hijacking your thread
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I didn't insult anyone by calling them redneck, I was saying that's probably what anti-gun nuts think. So telling me to f off is pretty unnecessary.

Those of you who are upset shouldn't be.
 
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md02geist said:
May I ask how you guys actually enjoy blowing apart living creatures like that, for no return? It seems a bit sadistic to me, I seem to remember hearing that most serial killers started with small animals....not saying that any of you are serial killers, I just don't get how on earth creating destruction and revelling in the massacre of pathetically inadequate targets is something to be proud of.

I get it if you'd popped a bear, or lion, or tiger (oh my) or something that presented some sort of physical threat to you. I'd even get it if you popped a good ten pointer or something that could provide sustenance and nourish you. But this..I just don't understand.
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It's probably best to not participate in threads that upset you.
 
PorcupineMtns66 said:
It's probably best to not participate in threads that upset you.
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I'm not upset. I was asking legitimately why people enjoyed it. The OP answered me at length and its all good, I don't have to agree with how some people feel about it but I certainly respect their opinions and definitely agree with the reasoning the OP put forth. :)
 
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Great shooting Ken, and Brian:thumbup:



I've always wanted to take my custom XP100 out west, but still haven't gotton the chance. I do bench shooting, but prairie dog would be much more fun. And thanks for helping the farmers out, while also saving some of those critters from the poison that slowly kills them from the inside out.
 
Inspired by Ken's awesome shooting and my brother's killer accuracy with his Savage .204 Ruger, I just bought a DPMS LR-204 (.204 Ruger. . pic below) Luckily, it has a 30 Round mag because I can't shoot like these guys can!!!. . . . . I belong more to the school of "spray and pray" ! ! ! ! ! :eek: :thumbup:

DPMSLR204.jpg



We don't have prairie dogs here in Ohio but we have lots and lots of woodchucks. . .

"How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck got in Lunde's line of fire?". . . . Not much!!!!:eek: :D

I remember mowing the fields when I was about 13. I was on "Betsy", a 1943 International Farmall "M" tractor with pinched wheels pulling a "Hog Growler" mowing deck. It had an all steel seat so standing was the preferred method of riding across bumpy ground. I had it going pretty fast when the pinched wheels dropped down into a woodchuck hole!!!. . . The tractor stopped instantly bucking forward and launching me onto the hood with nothing to grab onto but the hot muffler!!!! The throttle was a "push forward for more speed" design and when I flew over the steering wheel, I fully engaged the throttle!!! So I'm hanging on for dear life while the tractor's rear wheels are spinning at top speed. . . I was pretty sure that I was going to be ground into the dirt and then shot out under the bush hog mowing deck! Luckily I was able to drop the throttle with my right foot and the tractor stalled out. . . As I gladly let go of the muffler from hell and fell to the earth, I came face to face with the woodchuck who had apparently tried to kill me as he scurried from another entrance to his hole. . . I have, since that day, shot every single one of his relatives that I have seen. . . . Still, there are many, many more than we can shoot that are tearing up our fields and our neighbor's fields. Is it fun?. . . You betcha!:thumbup:. . . Still don't understand? . . . Make out with a 400 degree muffler for 5 minutes and it will all become clear!!!!:D

Hopefully, my new .204 Ruger will help to eliminate generations of these fat, greasy hole digging machines!!!:thumbup:

While writing this, I have come up with at least three new knife names!!!!!!!

Jerry :D

Here's a pic of a Farmall "M" death machine that I found on the web!!!!

FarmallM.jpg
 
Well thankfully someone was watching out for you Jerry, or we would'nt have all these awesome Busse knives to test and drool over. :thumbup:;)
 
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