The Tri-ad Lock Patent Expires in December [Wrong Info]

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SV-97 said:
Why fix it if it ain't broke. There's situations like for example proprietary fasteners on screws that kinda embody what you preach here and it isn't good in any way. As long as the guy designing it is fine with it and the guy using the design isn't like "yeah this is totally a lock designed by me" I don't see anything wrong with it. I'd rather have a lock that's well executed because it's simple and time proofen rather than some fancy lock like the ones from G&G Hawk just to see new locks. Sure there's a beauty in a fancy lock but not every knife needs it.
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It's called innovation. It's a good thing.
 
Pilsner said:
Yes. Where every lock started, in fact, with someone doing something new!
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I discovered this a while back. It was a patent granted in 1880 to Bontgen & Sabin for a butterfly knife design.(photo credits go to bernard levine, and balisongcollector.com)

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This was a photo of said companies catalog in 1885

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Obviously the design has changed very little in over 100 years, because there wasn't much to improve upon. Pivot, and hardware systems have been updated, and materials upgraded, but in essence all balisongs today are a copy of this once patented design.
 
SpySmasher said:
The patent.

I wonder if we will see:

1) Non-Cold Steel Tri-ad-type locks. (Probably)

2) Production versions of Demko's Scorpion lock. (Hopefully)
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I can’t remember where but i have seen someone else doing a lock very similar to the triad. I think it might have been Wildsteer out of France.

Funny there was someone posting in another thread about wanting the Triad patent to expire so other companies could use it. I would like to see other companies use it so we could see it in more folders.

I actually really liked the CS Storm Cloud and would have probably bought one if it didn’t have steel liners. Too bad because without liners since it has the wave thumbplate it could have been an awesome alternative to the cqc7.

I doubt we will see the Scorpion lock showing up elsewhere for a long time. Its not going to become free use just cause the Triad does. It would be nice to see cold steel put out a few high end knives using the scorpion. It is such a cool lock.

You know I am a sucker for weird mechanisms and locks...anything funky. If I had unlimited loot I would have a collection of GG Hawks for sure.
 
The thing is, just because something is new and innovative doesn't mean it's automatically good. I like both, a well executed proven design is just as nice as a well designed new lock. If people wanted new locks so badly a lot more companies would license a lot more from the Hawks given how many unique locks they have designed over the years.
 
Lapedog said:
I doubt we will see the Scorpion lock showing up elsewhere for a long time. It's not going to become free use just cause the Triad does. It would be nice to see cold steel put out a few high end knives using the scorpion. It is such a cool lock.
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I meant to speculate that maybe since their "calling card" had become somewhat free to others (obviously, the "Tri-ad" trademark is still theirs and has a sales value unto itself) Cold Steel might find it worth it to license the Scorpion lock from Demko. Basically, it could become their new calling card.

It is an incredible lock (I have an AD15 which is amazing) that would, I think, appeal to a lot of people if it went into production. I would also really like to see Demko put it on his spine whack bench. :D It's a lock that seriously benefits from being held in a grip and is very strong, I have no doubt, in holding static loads even without a grip but I have often wondered if it could handle being bounced by that test that Demko makes use of on Youtube. For someone who has spent a lot of his time comparing his Tri-ad to other locks, he is suspiciously quiet on the performance of the Scorpion. :D
 
SpySmasher said:
I meant to speculate that maybe since their "calling card" had become somewhat free to others (obviously, the "Tri-ad" trademark is still theirs and has a sales value unto itself) Cold Steel might find it worth it to license the Scorpion lock from Demko. Basically, it could become their new calling card.

It is an incredible lock (I have an AD15 which is amazing) that would, I think, appeal to a lot of people if it went into production. I would also really like to see Demko put it on his spine whack bench. :D It's a lock that seriously benefits from being held in a grip and is very strong, I have no doubt, in holding static loads even without a grip but I have often wondered if it could handle being bounced by that test that Demko makes use of on Youtube. For someone who has spent a lot of his time comparing his Tri-ad to other locks, he is suspiciously quiet on the performance of the Scorpion. :D
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I suspect it would bounce open. It works very similarly to the GG Hawk Stronglock or Strap Lock or whatever they call it on the Buck Marksman. I've seen a few other similar locks around too. I had an AD15 and thought it was a cool lock, but couldn't get past the circular tang of the blade that contacts your index finger when the knife is open, as well as a few other minor things that have me preferring the Triad by a large margin, and I suspect it is much more fail-proof as well.
 
Well if other companies that make backlocks can use the triad lock, why in the hell wouldnt they? It is just a stronger, pretty much perfected version of a back lock anyway. Id love to see an auto Buck 110, spyderco police or endura with a Triad lock on them!
 
Hackenslash said:
I acknowledge the strength of the Tri-Ad lock but have had some CS knives that were absolute thumb breakers. There seems to be a steep curve to break in a Tri-Ad and make them more "thumb friendly". I'd be curious to see what a Taichung Spyderco or WE/Reate could do with tolerances on a Tri-Ad to make it a better experience.
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There are a couple of good videos out that do just that. I think if CS (whom some see as a mortal enemy of the knife world and everything it stands for) thought it was necessary, they would tweak the manufacturing. Looking at the videos of the guys that "fix" the TriAd, the folks disassemble the knife, polish the stamped lock pieces to remove the rough edges where they contact, then bend the spring a bit to take out some of the tension. Oil, then reassemble. Seems to be a 100% improvement in operation. So my point is, that if you had someone in the manufacturing chain change the angle of the spring and polish up buckets of lock pieces before the knife was assembled, it wouldn't cost much at all. If they tweaked the design a bit, it might even make it better.

And looking at my Valloton... ohhhh.... Taichung.... even if they made the knife as a "jobber" to be branded by someone other than them, I'll bet the lock would be like "budda".

Robert
 
SpySmasher said:
I suspect so, too. :D
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I do agree that the Scorpion lock seems like it would truly benefit from being gripped. I often tend to disagree with the assertion that gripping framelocks does much to aid the lockup. On some models it seems to and on others the lock falls into the crook of my fingers where little force is applied. It seems to depend on the grip I am using and the design of the knife.

He could always use some elastics to simulate a moderate grip on the scorpion lock while testing it.
 
Lapedog said:
I do agree that the Scorpion lock seems like it would truly benefit from being gripped. I often tend to disagree with the assertion that gripping framelocks does much to aid the lockup. On some models it seems to and on others the lock falls into the crook of my fingers where little force is applied. It seems to depend on the grip I am using and the design of the knife.

He could always use some elastics to simulate a moderate grip on the scorpion lock while testing it.
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I also tend to disagree with the assertion about frame locks and for the same reasons. However, it is an assertion that is widely made. I'm certain he is aware of it. Yet he doesn't simulate "grip" when he tests frame locks. Wouldn't seem fair if he did for his own lock. :p
 
:) Patents expiring is a good thing , otherwise you'd be paying $$$$ for your generic pharmaceuticals and most everything else . It actually spurs further innovation thru competition . Better and less expensive products result .

The Tri-ad lock is my overall favorite and I won't be sorry if other makers use similar . :cool::thumbsup:

Is the Scorpion Lock under the same patent ? :confused:
 
oxman198 said:
Well if other companies that make backlocks can use the triad lock, why in the hell wouldnt they? It is just a stronger, pretty much perfected version of a back lock anyway. Id love to see an auto Buck 110, spyderco police or endura with a Triad lock on them!
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Those all seem cool to me, too, but there are some disadvantages to a Tri-ad: namely additional manufacturing & engineering costs and the possible "reputation" costs.

As for the first disadvantage, that's obvious. If you are Buck and you have been building and selling 110s successfully for decades in the face of mechanically superior knives, why expend the effort and cash?

As for the second disadvantage, if you are Spyderco, why bother walking that public relations tightrope when you are successfully selling tons of other knives anyway? When Sal Glesser was asked if they would ever build a Tri-ad he basically responded (I paraphrase), "no because we don't have to."
 
DocJD said:
:) Patents expiring is a good thing , otherwise you'd be paying $$$$ for your generic pharmaceuticals and most everything else . It actually spurs further innovation thru competition . Better and less expensive products result .

The Tri-ad lock is my overall favorite and I won't be sorry if other makers use similar . :cool::thumbsup:

Is the Scorpion Lock under the same patent ? :confused:
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Copying isn't innovation.
 
Some people obviously don't believe in the concept of patents or copyright, notably arch-capitalists like the Disney corporation or communists like the old Soviet Union, but I do. It's a long-established principle in the Western world that dates back to ancient Athens and in the US is enshrined in the constitution. In the modern world, most nations, including the PRC and US, are signatory to common, international patent laws. What some people don't seem to understand is that the principle of limiting the exclusive exploitation of an idea or invention is just as important as protecting it.

Conceptually, patents acknowledge that there is a tension between the private rights of the creator and the public good, ie. what is good for the creator is that he/she gets to exploit their idea exclusively forever but what's good for the rest of us is that they don't get to do that at all. The resulting compromise is the patent, which sets a time limit on exclusive exploitation. Once that period is over, the idea passes into the common use for the common good.

If you believe in the idea of patents you can certainly debate what is a fair and useful term but once that term is up there's no reason not to support wide, common use.

As for the current international statutory term of 20 years, it seems pretty fair to me especially given that the initial US statutory patent term was only 14 years. Either way, it's the law. I find it pretty silly that anyone would grant Cold Steel some kind of moral ownership of the Tri-ad design beyond that which the fair-seeming law has already granted them but that's me.
 
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DocJD said:
Is the Scorpion Lock under the same patent ? :confused:
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No, it's a recently patented lock. I mention it because it's also designed by Andrew Demko who designed the Tri-ad and works for Cold Steel. I'm wondering whether now that the Tri-ad patent is expiring whether they will buy that lock from him too.
 
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SpySmasher said:
Some people obviously don't believe in the concept of patents or copyright, notably arch-capitalists like the Disney corporation or communists like the old Soviet Union, but I do. It's a long-established principle in the Western world that dates back to ancient Athens and in the US is enshrined in the constitution. In the modern world, most nations, including the PRC and US, are signatory to common, international patent laws. What some people don't seem to understand is that the principle of limiting the exclusive exploitation of an idea or invention is just as important as protecting it.

Conceptually, patents acknowledge that there is a tension between the private rights of the creator and the public good, ie. what is good for the creator is that he/she gets to exploit their idea exclusively forever but what's good for the rest of us is that they don't get to do that at all. The resulting compromise is the patent, which sets a time limit on exclusive exploitation. Once that period is over, the idea passes into the common use for the good of us all.

If you believe in the idea of patents you can certainly debate what is a fair and useful term but once that term is up there's no reason not to support wide, common use.

As for the current international statutory term of 20 years, it seems pretty fair to me especially given that the initial US statutory patent term was only 14 years. Either way, it's the law. I find it pretty silly that anyone would grant Cold Steel some kind of moral ownership of the Tri-ad design beyond that which the fair-seeming law has already granted them but that's me.
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20 years should give a company enough time to set up a good reputation in whatever field its patent is in.

If we look at the Axis Lock alot of people are still going to go to BM if they want an axis lock since they are the known player in that area of lock design. Some people won’t but BM has had a long time to build up loyal customers desiring an axis lock.
 
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