The truth as I feel it tonight

I understand an aggressive attitude of looking after yourself and peers.

Most the folks I know who have had to kill do not talk about it much or lightly. There's no more of the 'jock' left.

There's a friend of mine who's a martial artist guy, and his son was nationally ranked. There's a place in the growth curve where you want to 'try it out' in field conditions...or on the local idiot34?!!"666!!! who has a history of hurting people and property. But this part of the growth curve does not last all that long.

Are some of our soldiers and cops liking death? Probably. It's in the realm of stats. But many more just do the job and try to leave it there, and some develope problems not easily addressed here or with modern medicine.

You know the history of man is bloody, and there's still a lot of blood.
The schoolyard was bloody at times, I remember, and the ethos of leaving th fallen down is not always applied anymore, either.

Violence is a hot button topic. You could 'study' violence all your life and still never understand.

I think the people who can't let it go should find other work, the people who are over zealous should not be at work, (for eventually they'll jeapardize themselves and peers, right?) and those who can simplify the event, make their peace and move on have some hope of a career.

Jailers are not usually known for kindness. All the sheriffs in the County of San Bernardino where I once lived had to do a tour through County lockup, before they could work the streets. I'm not sure this was a good idea.
I think most citizens afterwards often looked like prisoners to them- just not having been caught yet.

So, there is communicable anger and violence.

But anyway, if a bad guy came into my home and was a threat, I do not look forward to it, but I would do what had to be done. Conversations on weapons forums about the delight and happy expectations are.....dumb.

That's why we talk about Zombies here- get it out of our systems. Know youre talking trash. Which reminds me, subguns do not have the energy for zombies. Rifle rounds or mag revolvers are best.


munk
 
Munk, interestingly enough I was able to supress A LOT of crap until I retired. Prior to retirement, most sleep was that of exhaustion.....years later, after the heart attacks and the cancer....than came the anxiety(?), anyway the flashbacks.........You would understand.
 
The human brain...
I saw a couple former Jewish schoolgirl laborers for a military arms plant in WWll Nazi Germany on the History channel today. When one got pregnant they'd take her to hospital, have the baby, and a very short time later be back at the factory. The children were taken to a children's camp..to die.
Krupp, famous name, could not stop this, but he did transport the young workers to another location shortly before the allied victory to get them out of the hands of the SS who oversaw the plant operations. The SS planned on executing them.

Anyway, nice faces of nice old ladies. Looking at them, of course, I'd have no friggen idea what life was like for them then. One said all she did was what she had to, and let fate decide the rest. She didn't have time for anything else. Get over whatever cruelty of the day and survive.

>>>>>>>>>>

This is nothing for many of you, but I still remember takedowns at the psych ward I wish I'd handled differently.


munk
 
munk said:
This is nothing for many of you, but I still remember takedowns at the psych ward I wish I'd handled differently.
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I hear you.

The stuff that gets me is the kids in Child Welfare care, who were housed in group homes. The same group homes, with the same rules, that were used for open-custody young offenders.

When a kid's in care because his parents messed up, I see no excuse for housing them in the controlling and punitive conditions that teen criminals are subjected to.

It was, as I recall, a great way of generating criminals.
 
Ad Astra said:
People with sick minds create horror.
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You would be suprised what can happen to a healthy person under bad situations. The mind is a reletively fragile system that has a lot of room to fall apart. The scale of the horror will normally be limited in general society, but I don't feel okay with saying that horror is only limited to those who are abnormal sick.

Demonizing and dehumanizing is a dangerous path. I'm not better then the man who points a gun to my face, I'm just in a different place then he is. The best I can hope for is to be able to follow whatever beleifs I have given the circumstances, and to take responsibilty for my own actions, to look myself in the face at the end of the day and not be afraid of what I see.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
I'm not better then the man who points a gun to my face, .
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But I am better.
Im a better person in inner nature that that other person who walks the halls of the school with a gun, or sticks up a bank.

I therefore want a cop or an FBI agent who understands the real need I may have for them to pull their weapon and to drop that guy with one shot.

I dont want a wishy-washy cop who has trouble pulling the trigger.
I dont want a cop with inner personal demons about causeing harm to another person.
 
Society has the right to protect itself, just like the individual has the responsibility to protect himself. The sophist argument about 'being like the criminal or killers' if we 'stoop' to their level, does not understand nature, evolution, or society. We defend ourselves not because we are better than God, but because we are not.

munk
 
Allan Molstad said:
But I am better.
Im a better person in inner nature that that other person who walks the halls of the school with a gun, or sticks up a bank.

I therefore want a cop or an FBI agent who understands the real need I may have for them to pull their weapon and to drop that guy with one shot.

I dont want a wishy-washy cop who has trouble pulling the trigger.
I dont want a cop with inner personal demons about causeing harm to another person.
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Theres a difference between knowing whats right and wrong, and looking down on someone. You don't threaten those around you senselessly, nor do you hurt them for unjust reasons (speaking of the general public, not directed at any individual). I'm not saying that you should let someone run rampant, or that you should avoid lethal force when necessary.

But I don't ever want to start looking down on people because I'm better then they are. Give it time, and a bad enough situation, and I could become just like them, only with different reasons. My understanding of myself, and how people act and react over an extended period of loss, frustration, and hatred leads me to be unable to state otherwise. I'd like to beleive that it would never happen that way, but I try to be realistic.

Heres the thing, If its a complete removal of humanity for the sake of doing whats right, it doesn't feel even half as bad to me as when a person hurts or kills someone else and feels emotionally uplifted from the experience because they are the better man, because they put someone in there place. It worries me deeply to see that kind of reaction either sides of situation, good or bad.

I may beleive myself right, and I'll act accordingly, but I still say that I'm not above them on the level of humanity. You shouldn't kill because your better then they are, You should kill because it has to be done.
 
Last Visible Canary;

When I read your post, I think of the disproportionate attention the modern age has directed against making value judgements.
We do make value judgements. Some of those value judgements save our lives everyday. As a practical matter, in the here and now, I don't worry about whether or not we are 'better' than radical Islam which kills innocent women and children, just know we must stop them from bringing down the entire civilization.



munk
 
Allan Molstad said:
But I am better.
Im a better person in inner nature that that other person who walks the halls of the school with a gun, or sticks up a bank.

I therefore want a cop or an FBI agent who understands the real need I may have for them to pull their weapon and to drop that guy with one shot.

I dont want a wishy-washy cop who has trouble pulling the trigger.
I dont want a cop with inner personal demons about causeing harm to another person.
Click to expand...

Brother M, having the occasional nightmare does not necessarily make one "wishy-washy", nor do you need to worry about me going "postal" or "eating my gun". I am of the opinion that they should not have called us Special Agents, rather ordinary agents.....what you really have is ordinary guys, trained well, and then placed in extraordinary circumstances where you shoot or you don't go home to mama and the kids. Once in a while, you can do everything "right" and one of yours still eats it.......Wait until you have a bereaved wife slap you as you stand by your friend's casket...and then she says "You son of a bitch, if you had done your job my husband would be alive today."

The "thin blue line" is there 24/7 to protect you and yours, and normal activities should be as transparent (unnoticed) to you as possible. Unfortunately, the news delights in finding any flaw....and that's what you're gonna hear. I can tell you that the ten years of teaching high school since retiring from 28 years in DEA have been terrifically satisfying....no one wants to see me fail. :D
 
For every Jurrasic Narc, there get to be 3 munks sitting on their butts watching the History channel, safe at home...

JN's one of those guys makes you believe we did all of this- this living thing, this family thing, this work hard thing, this society thing: for a reason, and the reason was not a waste. Frankly, there are many days, and many hours in each day where that is hard to remember.

I'd have sent my sons to JN"s classroom in a heartbeat.


munk
 
jurassicnarc44 said:
Munk, interestingly enough I was able to supress A LOT of crap until I retired. Prior to retirement, most sleep was that of exhaustion.....years later, after the heart attacks and the cancer....than came the anxiety(?), anyway the flashbacks.........You would understand.
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Interesting. I know a guy. Famous musician here. A few years ago he kind of dissapeared from the music circuit. Wondered what happened to him. Showed back up last year and turned out seeing the war on TV had got his PTSD going again and he had holed up.
 
munk said:
Last Visible Canary;

When I read your post, I think of the disproportionate attention the modern age has directed against making value judgements.
We do make value judgements. Some of those value judgements save our lives everyday. As a practical matter, in the here and now, I don't worry about whether or not we are 'better' than radical Islam which kills innocent women and children, just know we must stop them from bringing down the entire civilization.



munk
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Absolutely. I do suffer from social, emotive, and moral relativism, so a lot of my views are based on first trying to understand the opposite sides arguments and situation as if you were them before judgeing them. But, thats just a method, not an requirement. I dont like seeing people acting on blind belief, regardless of wether knowing both sides would change their arguments or not.

example, a guy hits a woman, and someone steps in to stop him. He explains that she was seeing another man, and they were arguing about it, during wich she pulls a knife. He, fearing for his life decks her. You see in his eyes that he's actually jarred by the experience and telling the truth - but you also see that he's still ready to fight. So he tells you its none of your bussiness, and curtly asks you to step aside.

You say no, and stand your ground.

He could have said a thousand things, all of them ending in the same reaction, You standing in his way of the woman to keep him from hitting her. But - it's important to understand what he's saying, as it helps you to understand the situation tactically, morally, and socially. It doesn't have to change your reaction one bit, but that understanding will help you determine what is best for everything else regarding the situation.

I absolutely beleive that you should hold to what you beleive is right, but it's really important to pay attention and try to understand whats going on with the people you deal with, not to just assume they are inherently horrible people or mentally unsound individuals because of one (or several) foul deed/s. To glaze over the human state based on one action is dangerous, wich is part of what I was refering to with the idea of beleiving your "better" then those who you face against.

The idea is that you can look back and say "I did what I did based on my understanding of the situation." rather then "I did it out of anger and hatred".
 
Spectre said:
Boring is good, in a war zone.

John
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John,

I could use that qoute in a tag line.

It could be a great title for a book, even a movie.

It speaks volumes.

It is a quote that should go down in history.

"Boring is good, in a war zone."

My heart goes out to you.

Thank you again for being there. I hope it stays boring for you.
 
Spectre said:
Boring is good, in a war zone.
John
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I'll second that.

jurassicnarc44 said:
Real wisdom here, troops.......I still see the faces....................
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Yep, and re-live the nightmare some nights. More than I like. Yes it was war, and yes, I did what needed to be done. But I still have nightmares and wonder if there were something I could have done differently.
That said, I also have a CCW and do so in the fervent hope that I never have to pull my weapon. But if I do need it, it will be there, not at home in the safe.
 
Having a firearm gives you options.
Taking of human life leaves lasting scars on your emotions. It's a terrible thing to have to do. Those with loved one's or families that rely upon them might have the decision a little easier. Perhaps not.
 
Doctors know how to give injections very well. They can do it quickly, precisely and without even looking. You better believe, however, that they are deeply, deeply familiar with what happens to you when they give you that "shot."
I am saying be careful with those guns. Im saying be like the Doctor.
How can you think of yourself as a gun expert if you don't know the horror and pain those bullets will create?
That's what I wanted you to think about. Cops see mangled flesh all the time, so I get the feeling that they think of their guns in a different way from us regular folks.
Dear God be careful with those guns.
 
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