The truth as I feel it tonight

There are many times that I saw people use deadly force who were mentally unprepared for it and were changed because of it.
I have always tried to remind people that when you pick up that weapon, or put that kevlar on, that's the the day it's going to happen, you're going to get shot or you are going to shoot someone. If it doesn't happen, good. Next day, same thing. The day you don't expect it to happen, that's when it happens, and you shocked it did. Traumatized. If you really thought it was not going to happen, why did you load your weapon, why did you put your kevlar on?
When I worked in the jail I used to be concerned about inmates getting a hold of a whole #2 pencil, or the blade out of a shaver...Those types of things seem so insignificant on the street.
 
I've hunted for years, and unfortunately have made a few imprecise shots. A good shot means a quick and merciful kill, but even then, you get to see the guts pretty soon.

I believe anyone who eats meat should be involved in the harvesting process at least once, to understand that something dies to that we can live, and therefore respect the animal that was sacrificed for us.

A few people asked me how, as a Buddhist, I could have volunteered for the infantry, and if I would have a problem killing another human. My view is anyone I face on the battlefield is probably trying to do the right thing as he understands it, just as I am. Perhaps in a different life, he might be my best friend.

It's my job to kill him, just as it's his job to kill me. I found, surprisingly, that my viewpoint was shared pretty closely by our Drill Sgt when I and my IRR and Retired Reserve companions were "regreened" at Fort Benning. The Sergeant was a huge black man from Mississippi who admonished us with a serious face not to "chew crack", and who had returned from a tour in Iraq.

I was talking to another, younger soldier about this, and the soldier wanted to be emotionally personally involved. The sergeant parked the truck, turned, and said, "No, Shirley's right. It ain't personal; it's just business."

A horrible business, but no cause for hate. If we hate, we always lose, even if we win.

John
 
An impressive well-argued thread with serious responses from people who KNOW and THINK, not loudmouths or nutters who DON'T. Weapons are a product of man but they are needed because of the other more deadly product of man-hate and a kind of monkey-rage.My father helped liberate Belsen concentration camp and he told me that when you see what ordinary people can do to ordinary people you despair. Train to defend, but train harder never to OFFEND then weapons stay as beautiful tools not tools of horror.
 
i have hunted, but never for just the sport, if i couldn't clean and eat it myself, i didn't shoot it. i have never knowingly shot another human being, but have seen others die within a couple of meters and seen others disfigured by explosions and trauma and those who have seen rarely talk about it. it's not something that is easily remembered or explained.

i have no trouble with using deadly force to stop someone from hurting someone else. the object of a soldier is not necessarily to kill, but to stop the enemy from realizing their goals, if that takes killing, so be it, as said, it is done by real soldiers without hate. new recruits may hate and think it's cool to kill the enemy, but they normally soon learn the truth when they've seen the elephant. the best soldiers woould rather defeat the enemy without any casualties at all, and think a quiet day with nothing happening is the best. it is a noble profession , defending us from those who would do us harm - thank you again john for doing it for us...
 
Andrew Colglazier said:
"Horror"......

IMO, too strong a word to use in the context of firearms.

"Respect", more applicable, IMO.

I handle, carry and shoot guns just about every day. I don't want to kill anybody, either accidentally or purposely. But, again IMO, "horror" is over the top.

When I lived in Germany I found that my attitude towards guns and gun ownership, while still positive, was blunted somewhat because of the company I kept and the expectations of those around me. I couldn't talk about guns or shooting without getting the young German pacifist line.

Humans need tools, and humans need weapons, just as we always have. They are a part of us and have helped us be what we are.

My daughter is a fencer, but told me the other day that she is "anti-violence, anti-gun, anti-weapon". She has successfully sublimated the history of the sport she partakes of, and turned an honorable and age-old skill into a passtime. What once was of life-and-death importance has become a four-hour-a-week opportunity to sweat for a pacifist 16 year old.

IMO, a futile attempt to sever humanity from reality.

Most of us live artificially safe lives today. That could change in a heartbeat. Better not to become so afraid of our own shadows that we forget how to be violent ourselves.

Andy
Click to expand...

Your post brings up a couple things I've long held about human nature. Pacifists, true pacifists, miss the fundamental link in reasoning--that they can remain pacifists only because there's someone out there willing to go to war to protect them.

As I've said before, Ghandi was extremely successful as a pacifist, and peaceful demonstrator. Of course, the British also knew they'd have a lot of armed, angry indians on their hands if anything ever happened to Ghandi.

That being said, I understand and respect the topic starter for his feelings, and understanding of his own nature, that he doesn't want to ever have to do that.

I also understand the idea that there is, and should be, some amount of 'horror' or respect in relation to tools and weapons that can injure or kill you. I work around power equipment all day long, large saws, grinders, and other tools that could put me in the emergency room fast--if not worse.

And yet, the things I injure myself on most, are the tools I don't expect it from. I've cut myself with a screwdriver while prying something free, cut my hand on a J-box more than a few times, snagged myself on a nail or screw, etc.

I think that, in some part, is due to the the respect I have for certain tools. The same applies to weapons of any kind, especially guns--a more profound respect--and even the compound bows I have sitting in my garage.
 
enderwiggin said:
Your post brings up a couple things I've long held about human nature. Pacifists, true pacifists, miss the fundamental link in reasoning--that they can remain pacifists only because there's someone out there willing to go to war to protect them.

.
Click to expand...

In WW1 British Pacifists had to work as unarmed strecher bearers in no mans land.

Some were brave & moral men, who saw & new the reality of war & did great deads of brvery.

The mere cowards were shot or jailed.

Spiral
 
I believe in God so death means nothing to me,we all go on after all...

I can't see killing without reason,however....

In the right situation I can see myself killing without remorse or regret,at a certain point a human becomes just so much meat that needs to be disposed of;I'll gladly let God deal with them at that end of it.

I can't stand "organized" war or anything that involves some saying I need to go fight,I only fight when God tells me,and trust me he don't care about any of the shit that humans say he does.

He only fights true evil,not the crap we make up on our own....
 
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