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The Unassuming Penknife
- Thread starter Stich2442
- Start date
Great post and some fine comments. This little Boker has bailed me out numerous times.
Aw man!!
I had one of those Boker 240's and let someone talk me out of it. Then I found out when I went to get another, they were history! One of the few knives I regret letting go of. Great little knife right up there with a Case peanut. Something about the shape, or dimension, it just felt great inland and worked great as a personal cutting tool.
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
screened porch
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I really can't get excited about nomenclature. If someone thinks it's good that I have a penknife, I don't care if my penknife is really a stockman or a jack or a utility. I salute a fellow blade appreciator.
kootenay joe
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Using correct names for knives or knife parts is important just as it is for body parts, or anything else. It is what allows us to know what someone else is talking about. BF is a place where people come to learn more about knives. If correct terms are not used here then don't expect the general public to ever develop an understanding and therefore tolerance of knives.
kj
kj
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Harsh.
And here I am thinking a penknife was a knife that could write.
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Thanks for all the kind words and compliments, I appreciate it as well as the participation, feel free anyone who wants to post your own penknives, I'm still carrying the stag Eisenhower with my peanut and Mora ( when outdoors)
Carl I've often wondered the same thing and take it bit broader to include anything smaller than say around 3 1/2" basically anything other than larger folders and fixed blades, I think non knife folk will use penknife and jackknife sort of generically towards any medium to small folder regardless of blade configuration, a story that has always stuck with me is the one about Major General Charles Chuck Yeager and the account of him performing a amputation with his penknife ,
"There was nothing much Yeager could do but take a pen knife and sever the remaining tendon, completing the amputation. After staunching the bleeding, he then carried his companion through miles of snow-covered ground. Yeager refused to abandon Pat, only doing so when he was convinced the wounded man was dead. Later, Yeager discovered that Pat had been found by the Spanish Guarda Civil, weak but alive. Pat eventually was sent home and survived the war."
Being as he started as a airplane mechanic prior to becoming a pilot I picture a Camillus T-29 or a scout/demo utility type knife in his pocket, but then again later on in life his knife carry was the Vic SAK executive model which when you take away the nail file, scissors, screwdriver/peeler blade is a basic penknife.
Another example I think of is the account of Tobias Schneebaum "Keep the River on Your Right"
And then there is Dwight D. Eisenhower who actually carried a small red bone stockman model #6333 not the Case 63 senator penknife pattern known as the Eisenhower, but he did gift the Case 63 senators when in office, the first account of this is:
"During the late 1950s, President Dwight D. Eisenhower arranged a three-day fishing trip to Quonset Point Naval Air Station in Rhode Island. He had five sailors convert a PT boat into a fishing vessel. At some point during the trip, the President gave each of the five sailors an 08263 Eisenhower pattern, handled in mother of pearl."
Eisenhower did like the knife and continued to give them away as gifts and also bought them in bulk. My understanding is it was Jim Parker who dubbed it the "Eisenhower" as a marketing tool.
Two of Eisenhower's small stockman
Carl my Boker 240 story is similar I bought one about 16 years ago and gave it away to a then girlfriends father two days later, I finally replaced it not too long ago really cheap on the auction site and there is a vendor that has the SS version still in stock, but they are always on the auction site in new and used condition, one big advantage the Boker 240 has besides great carbon steel is the amount of blade packed into the handle, both the Boker 240 and Eisenhower come in at 3 1/8" closed but the Boker boast a larger blade.
As far as nomenclature, I think it's important in specific places, here on blade forums it's a specialized group, using correct terminology helps things stay clear and focused and aids in eliminating confusion, but outside of blade forums which is what I believe Scrteened Porch is referring to correct terminology sort of falls by the waist side and if someone acknowledges a pocketknife without calling it a congress, trapper or stockman and call it a "penknife" or "jackknife" incorrectly it's no harm no foul, the fact that they can appreciate the tool and not run at the sight of it is a win.
Now I need to go get all my Mise en Place for the day
I will do that for you as soon as the sun gives me a bit more light
Carl I've often wondered the same thing and take it bit broader to include anything smaller than say around 3 1/2" basically anything other than larger folders and fixed blades, I think non knife folk will use penknife and jackknife sort of generically towards any medium to small folder regardless of blade configuration, a story that has always stuck with me is the one about Major General Charles Chuck Yeager and the account of him performing a amputation with his penknife ,
"There was nothing much Yeager could do but take a pen knife and sever the remaining tendon, completing the amputation. After staunching the bleeding, he then carried his companion through miles of snow-covered ground. Yeager refused to abandon Pat, only doing so when he was convinced the wounded man was dead. Later, Yeager discovered that Pat had been found by the Spanish Guarda Civil, weak but alive. Pat eventually was sent home and survived the war."
Being as he started as a airplane mechanic prior to becoming a pilot I picture a Camillus T-29 or a scout/demo utility type knife in his pocket, but then again later on in life his knife carry was the Vic SAK executive model which when you take away the nail file, scissors, screwdriver/peeler blade is a basic penknife.
Another example I think of is the account of Tobias Schneebaum "Keep the River on Your Right"
And then there is Dwight D. Eisenhower who actually carried a small red bone stockman model #6333 not the Case 63 senator penknife pattern known as the Eisenhower, but he did gift the Case 63 senators when in office, the first account of this is:
"During the late 1950s, President Dwight D. Eisenhower arranged a three-day fishing trip to Quonset Point Naval Air Station in Rhode Island. He had five sailors convert a PT boat into a fishing vessel. At some point during the trip, the President gave each of the five sailors an 08263 Eisenhower pattern, handled in mother of pearl."
Eisenhower did like the knife and continued to give them away as gifts and also bought them in bulk. My understanding is it was Jim Parker who dubbed it the "Eisenhower" as a marketing tool.
Two of Eisenhower's small stockman
Carl my Boker 240 story is similar I bought one about 16 years ago and gave it away to a then girlfriends father two days later, I finally replaced it not too long ago really cheap on the auction site and there is a vendor that has the SS version still in stock, but they are always on the auction site in new and used condition, one big advantage the Boker 240 has besides great carbon steel is the amount of blade packed into the handle, both the Boker 240 and Eisenhower come in at 3 1/8" closed but the Boker boast a larger blade.
As far as nomenclature, I think it's important in specific places, here on blade forums it's a specialized group, using correct terminology helps things stay clear and focused and aids in eliminating confusion, but outside of blade forums which is what I believe Scrteened Porch is referring to correct terminology sort of falls by the waist side and if someone acknowledges a pocketknife without calling it a congress, trapper or stockman and call it a "penknife" or "jackknife" incorrectly it's no harm no foul, the fact that they can appreciate the tool and not run at the sight of it is a win.
Now I need to go get all my Mise en Place for the day
I will do that for you as soon as the sun gives me a bit more light
screened porch
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Criticism noted, support appreciated. Let's not fight.
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:thumbup:
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Pen knives being smaller also tend to be cheaper and easier to find in my neck of the woods so they comprise about 20% of my collection so I'm no stranger to using a pen knife as an every day knife. Not only are they the least offensive of the pocket knives to the NKP (None Knife People) but it is certainly a capable knife and up to most daily tasks we come across while out and about.
Now being a mechanic I've also carried other knives used in my job but the bulk of cutting chores was really handled by a pen knife so here's one I use frequently, the OP's reminded me of mine although mine looks like an Eisenhower it's 20s pre pattern #s with a strange stamp. I've yet to get an answer about this knife that satisfies me as to the history and pattern.
Here's the knife with the text from a post to BRL' s subforum feel free to pm me if you think you have any insight as I don't want to hijack the OP's thread.
Al right here it is, I bought this pen knife at an estate auction 20 years ago in the Poconos in PA, I got it cheap (IIRC under $10), what I know is it's a Case Pen Knife made somewhere between 1920-1940 in Green Bone Scales.
The thing that got me right away was there were no pattern #s, except for the letters ACI stamped on the opposite tang of the main Pen Blade.
Secondly the secondary pen is honed razor thin, including bein' swedged and is heat treated so as to flex the blade nearly 90 degrees and return true.
The blade below is shot from the top, the swedged dull side, see how thin this blade is?
.
The only logical reason anyone ever gave for a flexible blade like that was, it was a pipe knife and the flexible blade allowed the pipe bowl to be scraped clean and the blade would follow the contour of the bowl.
To me the blades and stampings look original, (but what do I know) so I defer to those who are more informed than I, plus it's usually fun to investigate with the great minds on this subforum, (if we hit a roadblock we can always ask Mr. Levine).
So folks lets see what ya know about this Case Knife, if ya need another shot of something, or clearer or closer let me know and I'll snap whatever is needed.
Now being a mechanic I've also carried other knives used in my job but the bulk of cutting chores was really handled by a pen knife so here's one I use frequently, the OP's reminded me of mine although mine looks like an Eisenhower it's 20s pre pattern #s with a strange stamp. I've yet to get an answer about this knife that satisfies me as to the history and pattern.
Here's the knife with the text from a post to BRL' s subforum feel free to pm me if you think you have any insight as I don't want to hijack the OP's thread.
Al right here it is, I bought this pen knife at an estate auction 20 years ago in the Poconos in PA, I got it cheap (IIRC under $10), what I know is it's a Case Pen Knife made somewhere between 1920-1940 in Green Bone Scales.
The thing that got me right away was there were no pattern #s, except for the letters ACI stamped on the opposite tang of the main Pen Blade.
Secondly the secondary pen is honed razor thin, including bein' swedged and is heat treated so as to flex the blade nearly 90 degrees and return true.
The blade below is shot from the top, the swedged dull side, see how thin this blade is?
The only logical reason anyone ever gave for a flexible blade like that was, it was a pipe knife and the flexible blade allowed the pipe bowl to be scraped clean and the blade would follow the contour of the bowl.
To me the blades and stampings look original, (but what do I know) so I defer to those who are more informed than I, plus it's usually fun to investigate with the great minds on this subforum, (if we hit a roadblock we can always ask Mr. Levine).
So folks lets see what ya know about this Case Knife, if ya need another shot of something, or clearer or closer let me know and I'll snap whatever is needed.
Will Power
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It's true, the man-in-the-street may refer to all perceived Old School Traditionals as 'Penknives' Those who pursue knowledge of knives will be quite precise about a blade at each end of the knife and likely a smaller sub 3,5" size. I've heard people deem some hulking Trapper as a penknife but then, pistols can be blanketed as 'revolvers' by many
I've always liked smaller single-spring knives, including the sturdy Buck 309 which actually deploys two but has the blades each end, Sleeveboards too. There's something urgently useful about this genre of knife.
Here's GEC's Conductor which offers a lot of blade relative to a small frame,this one in stainless from the Cyclop's Works and in Antique Yelllow, a kind of Winterbottom style bone. Plenty sweet in my book anyway
Thanks, Will
I've always liked smaller single-spring knives, including the sturdy Buck 309 which actually deploys two but has the blades each end, Sleeveboards too. There's something urgently useful about this genre of knife.
Here's GEC's Conductor which offers a lot of blade relative to a small frame,this one in stainless from the Cyclop's Works and in Antique Yelllow, a kind of Winterbottom style bone. Plenty sweet in my book anyway
Thanks, Will
kootenay joe
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Quote: "Pen knives being smaller also tend to be cheaper and easier to find in my neck of the woods"
This is true 'everywhere' these days. On ebay exquisite 4 blade Senators usually get little bidding and end up selling for a very low price. Vintage big Jacks are the opposite and attract lots of bidders and often end up with high selling prices.
Mr. Levine has stated that pre WW II Pen knives were the most expensive of a knife company's line up of knives, the best Pen knives being 4x the price of the most expensive Jacks. Part of the reason is that more skill is required when both ends of a spring have a blade. When you look at a well made vintage Pen knife with blades closed there is almost zero space around the blades yet there is no rub; i.e. had to be made with very tight tolerances. Also the springs were made such that there is a stronger pull for the larger master blade and a softer pull for the smaller secondary.
Now please, do not rush over to ebay and begin to bid for the superb Pen knives. It will put prices up and i like it how things are now, i.e. inexpensive.
kj
This is true 'everywhere' these days. On ebay exquisite 4 blade Senators usually get little bidding and end up selling for a very low price. Vintage big Jacks are the opposite and attract lots of bidders and often end up with high selling prices.
Mr. Levine has stated that pre WW II Pen knives were the most expensive of a knife company's line up of knives, the best Pen knives being 4x the price of the most expensive Jacks. Part of the reason is that more skill is required when both ends of a spring have a blade. When you look at a well made vintage Pen knife with blades closed there is almost zero space around the blades yet there is no rub; i.e. had to be made with very tight tolerances. Also the springs were made such that there is a stronger pull for the larger master blade and a softer pull for the smaller secondary.
Now please, do not rush over to ebay and begin to bid for the superb Pen knives. It will put prices up and i like it how things are now, i.e. inexpensive.
kj
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Ted I was hoping you would post that one, I've always liked it, what is the closed length? Case made I believe 3 or 4 equal end penknives in various lengths, my 2nd knife and 1st Case I owned that I spoke of in my first post of this thread is the 6201 and it's closed length is 2 5/8" closed compared to the 63's closed length of 3 1/8" closed
And what it would look like if I hadn't lost its bail sometime 30 years ago
And as promised Rick the penknife with the Maynard Stevens Jr. .22lr Made by J. Stevens A&T CO 1886-1916 Chicopee Falls Mass
Who knows maybe Yeager had one of these rifles, he was born in 1923 and was using a .22 by age 6 to bring rabbits to the table.
Pete
Hey Will can I have some of that pecan pie please, I think I need to amend my will to state on my death bed I need a warm slice of pecan pie with a scoop of vanilla bean ice cream
And what it would look like if I hadn't lost its bail sometime 30 years ago
And as promised Rick the penknife with the Maynard Stevens Jr. .22lr Made by J. Stevens A&T CO 1886-1916 Chicopee Falls Mass
Who knows maybe Yeager had one of these rifles, he was born in 1923 and was using a .22 by age 6 to bring rabbits to the table.
Pete
Hey Will can I have some of that pecan pie please, I think I need to amend my will to state on my death bed I need a warm slice of pecan pie with a scoop of vanilla bean ice cream
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Will Power
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Valid points KJ Lot of skill needed to nest in the blades on one spring. I find GEC has done an excellent job with their single-spring patterns, no rub on mine. Equally impressive is their 38 Whittler whose 3 blades show no scraping but are a very tight fit.
Oddly, I don't have a Eisenhower, find them quite costly to get here in Europe, but I'm keeping a hawk-eye out for old bargains
Here's my old Rem Sleeveboard which also gets in under the Penknife rubric, quite worn blades and gentle snap but the old boy is still game!:thumbup:
Oddly, I don't have a Eisenhower, find them quite costly to get here in Europe, but I'm keeping a hawk-eye out for old bargains
Here's my old Rem Sleeveboard which also gets in under the Penknife rubric, quite worn blades and gentle snap but the old boy is still game!:thumbup:
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Pete, closed it's approximately 3 1/16" closed, the main blade is 1 5/8" to the tang or 1 3/4" to the bolsterand the small blade is 1 1/4" - 1 1/2"depending where you measure to. OAL both blades open 6 1/2".
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Sorry for the fuzzy pics but I was on the way out the door and just took a couple of quick pics with the phone...
