The woods life is hard on a back

Greg Davenport

Greg Davenport

Joined
Nov 29, 1999
Messages
632
Hi all...just thought I'd write a note to let you know I will be out of the loop from Monday morning until probably Wednesday or Thursday. I have been fighting a very large disc herniation for 4 years and it has finally gotten the best of me.

The disc has now forced its way back far enough to flatten my cord. I have lost my deep tendon reflex on my left leg and also have developed a drop foot along with numbness and weakened muscle tone. It is also painful (all right lets hear the violins). We have tried to fix it with epidural steroid injections without success.

The surgery will be at 1300 (1:00 PM) and should last about 1 hour. I will have a full recovery and will be ready for my january 20th trip. One of the best neurosurgeon in the NW will perform the procedure. He is a friend of mine.

I will be available until Monday the 6th of December...should anyone have any questions specific to me...

I am enjoying the forum and all the good questions and responses I have seen. Best wishes to all.

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
Greg,

Here's wishing you a speedy recovery. You will be sorely missed here even for a few days!

Best,

Brian.
 
Good luck Greg! Enjoy the good drugs and rack time...

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Greg, You already know that you have our support.

The good side is that you will be immobile and forced to read our chatter while you recover.

Good luck friend.

Ron and Karen



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Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 
Greg,

Here's to a speedy recovery! Be sure to do as the doctor says!
smile.gif


Take care!



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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com


 
Hi everyone,

With Ron left to moderate on his own...I'm sure things will be fine without me.

Ron, is a true expert in the world of survival. He has put in the dirt time!!! There are so many programs out there where someone went to a 3 week class and then became an instructor. Or perhaps they were in the military and stationed in an environment...and now they teach survival there. Or what about the survival programs ran by people who know the art but have never learned how to relate their knowledge to others.

Dirt time means you not only learned survival, you lived it and learned it from the inside out. An instructor is someone who did this and went on and learned the art of teaching others the same.

I am as proud Ron's accomplishments as I am of mine. Now was that two percodans and one vicoden or the other way around????

Sparks and Brian...thanks for creating this forum...it is fun and you have made it easy.

Oh yeah and thanks to Dr. LaBarge for the percocet and vicoden. I'm rambling aren't I :>) :>) good thing I have a lap top.

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?


[This message has been edited by Greg Davenport (edited 04 December 1999).]
 
Well Greg, I'm new to this forum, but I remember pulling a muscle in my back when I wrestled in high school. It wasn't a particularly bad pull, but MAN... It was uncomfortable. I can only guess as to what you're going through and be glad it isn't me *L* Here's to a speedy recovery! Hope you feel better soon.

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When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

 
disregard.


[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
Greg,
Good Luck! Hope everything goes well.
We look forward to talking with you when you get BACK.
 
Hey Greg...

Well I hope everything will be OK..
I wish you the best of luck...

You know Ron could have done that for you at half the price,, he's pretty good with a blade!
smile.gif


Take care...

Eric..

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Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel

 
Greg,

You know that if I were working on your backside, I wouldn't drool ;>)

Our sort of business is filled with these injuries. For the first twenty years or so I carried all of the "E" gear as well as my own. The pack typically weighed in at around 100 lbs while the students had to carry these massive 10 pounders (grrrr). I would have let them carry the stuff but I wanted it near me NOW if there was a problem.

A couple of years ago I fell while carrying that pack, dropped almost six feet into my head, on a boulder. That knocked me out. It also broke three ribs, tore my rotator cuff and ripped an insertion in my right elbow. When I woke up, I picked up the pack and finished the week long trip. It hurt, bad.

I have new ways to handle some of the emergencies now. let them die and we'll eat them!

Ron


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Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 
Ahhhh...the old roasted long pig.

last year I broke a transverse process in my back when I fell making sure something was safe for others. it wasn't. (luckly they weren't watching) I finished the trip and when it was still hurting 2 weeks later, I took an Xray and knew why it still hurt.

I once broke a tooth off at the gum. I finished the trip on ibuprofen and avoiding water, air, or food contact with the tooth.

My present injury started 4 (maybe 5) years ago when I moved my whole household alone (a hand dolly for the big stuff). (yes I do have friends but isn't it funny how they can't be found when your moving :>)) I hurt my back. I got a shot of Tordol (an antiinflammatory), began ibuprofen, began stretching and walking.

2 weeks later I was off on a 120 mile backpacking trip; with a friend (read about it at http://www.ssurvival.com/MyStory.htm ) My back still hurt. 60 miles into the trip, my back was toast but there was no way out but to finish the trip. I did with extreme pain and to stupid to let my friend carry my gear. It took me 6 months of PT (I developed my own program) It flared up about 2 times a year. 2 weeks ago I was doing a long run (1 1/2 hours: 45 minutes uphill and 45 on flat ground) when it began to hurt again. Two days later I stepped wrong and I was down for the count.

I have never taken a narcotic drug until then. Even after the MRI showed a massive herniation (which the neurosurgeon thinks has been there since my injury 4 years ago) with nerve flatening, I still thought I could PT this and avoid the knife. I had steroid epidural injections and thought it was getting better. But on wednesday my reflexes left, I could no longer walk on my heals, and I was getting weaker. it is time to fix it. I'll probably come out of surgery and wonder why I waited so long to do this.

Ron...I think you got the right idea......

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
It might be fun to start a thread about wilderness leadership, leader qualifications, leader training and things that anyone going on a guided trip should look for.

All sorts of folks call themselves "guides" and when there is a problem it reflects on the rest of us.

As an example, awhile back there was a fella who started writing articles for magazines. He got his name out pretty good so he began to lead trips. I heard some of the horror stories. Scary stuff. I don't think he is doing it anymore but....

Ron


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Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 
I agree, this forum would be a good place to hash out what folks should and should not look for when seeking instruction of any type concerning wilderness and survival.

I'd be interested in hearing more about the guide in question since it's something everyone needs to avoid, especially if he's still operating and endangering student's lives.

Some of the things that would be good for discussion are insurance issues, whether there's a true desire on the guide's part or just a profit venture, guide qualifications, etc. This would be good info for the up and coming student, or those like myself that's always looking for new adventures and instruction from qualified instructors/guides. - Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
Just one note about my program....We don't provide any guide services. We teach.

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
I agree Greg... and Jeff.

The term "guide" refers to a legal definition that many Western states have adopted. If you lead trips as a teacher or just a tour guide, you are a guide. Nationally, the Forest Service requires that "guides" have an insurance policy that holds the FS harmless as well as covers costs for potential forest fires caused by the trip.

Many guide organizations (Outfitter and Guides) have requirements that include training under a registered guide, First Aid training and special testing in the area of proficiency they are selling.

I've been an outfitter for twenty years. Our programs are what Greg suggested.... teaching. To do that I had to complete a course of training that certified me to be a teacher. Part of this is the development of a mission for each program, an academic or curricular design and instructors capable of forwarding the design. It took so long I got a doctorate studying the process.

My instructors all have a minimum of two years teaching under their belts... this is not all dirt time. Some of it is presentation time. Before I began to downscale the school I required each instructor to contribute 40 hours a year to teaching in the public to scouts, schools or other public forums.

Each instructor goes through my version of the "Q" course without the martial elements. It is a test of primitive and modern skills as well as the ability to employ these skills in the field. It is not an easy task but I can be certain that my people can handle whatever comes their way. Many now have their own schools and for that I am a proud pappa.

The psychology of training is something that I know Greg and Kim deal with very well. That is one reason I admire and endorse Greg's efforts. He walked the walk and paid in blood (and puke).

What disturbs me most are the guys who pound their chests and talk about the challenge they are presenting the student. Think about that for a moment. Do they know what the challenge IS that they are presenting? Do they know how to talk a freaked patron off a rope or through a traverse? Can they deal with the anger and frustration students feel after a few days hiking without food? Can they remain calm when their authority is challenged in the field? I know of one guide who actually suggested that he might kill a couple of his students because they were doing what stressed students do.

Many times clients will bite off more than they can chew. A pro will have a safety net in place. Not just evacuation. As a wilderness instructor your role is to make every person a success if possible. Help each person reach their limits and then pass them. It is exhausting, difficult work and not something that a person who has led a half dozen trips is qualified to undertake.

I could go on and on but... I gotta get some snooze time.

Jeff, I can't mention any names. You've read about him though.

Ron




------------------
Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 
I think I know the guide you're talking about. Wasn't he the one that's doing the television stuff?

I found out a long time ago that the one's begging for publicity and expanding on the truth, are usually the one's with that are insecure with their own selves - potentially dangerous. All you have to do is sit back and watch, and use a little common sense to separate the BS from the fact.

If I've said it one time, I've said it a hundred, the most knowldegable about a particular environment and survival within that environment are the one's who live it everyday, since there's a huge difference between theory and reality.

Teachers and guides are two different things. Many people are excellent teachers of an art that may range from local to global subjects, but guides are usually more specialized.

For example; it would be laughable for us to guide people in a jungle environment when we only live it 6 to 8 weeks out of a year, that's the reason we always use local guides that live in the jungle, but it's reasonable to teach people things such as firemaking, shelter, etc. while we're there.

Great subject! In my opinion though, the con-artist and chest beaters are always found out in the long run, so we just continue doing what we do and don't allow them to change our focus. - Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
Ron said: "The psychology of training is something that I know Greg and Kim deal with very well. That is one reason I admire and endorse Greg's efforts. He walked the walk and paid in blood (and puke)".

Ron...just a note: I puked while in training, but never in front of my instructors....you see...they would make us eat it.

Many years back I had a female student puke right after she ate a small portion of a rabbits stomach contents. (I had just demonstated it and all of the students had a pinch of the tart meal.) I told all my students to get a spoon...and they did (they moaned and groaned). I took a big spoonful and got it close to my lips and.... Fortunate for them, I never have students do anything that I won't demonstate...and I sure the heck wasn't going to eat that. :>)

Goats eyeballs, slug, and even a rabbits stomach contents I'll eat, but puke...

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
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