Oct 7, 1998
This has been bothering me for a long time. Some people just want to come here and watch; sometimes these people even decide to participate and post.

Either way, they are welcome guests. People who are influenced by our ideas, our discussions, and our information. People who need not come here and listen, but who do.

Calling them 'Lurkers' is perjorative, wrong-minded, foolish, offensive, and contraproductive.

We WANT these people here; I started out as a.....well, let's call it VIEWER. I didn't feel confident at first to post, not feeling that I had anything of sufficient importance to offer these extremely knowledgeable people (my standards have lowered considerably since

So, I say an end to the word 'Lurker.' Let's call them 'viewers' or 'guests,' or something, almost anything, else.

What do the rest of you think? Walt
I emphatically disagree.

"Lurker" has been a term used since the old BBS days and has never been considered perjorative. In fact, many ISPs, forum boards, etc use the term and advise "lurking" for new people ("newbies") to see how things operate, function and to get a basic handle on "Netiquette".

I am dismayed that you are falling into the 'redefine and come up with a prettier word' PC mentality, Walt. I could never, ever accept that kind of mentality in a potential suiter

Cara mia, would you rather have a man who compromised his convictions as a suitor?

I have not been involved with computers very long, and the information that you present, while interesting historically, has, I believe, lost its' original meaning.

This is common in the scientific world, where terminology is in a term of constant flux, with bacteria being renamed, diseases being renamed, as the situation changes and the older names became less pertinent. Remember Pasteurella pestis, now Yersinia pestis, due to the recognition of the great Russian scientist, Yersin? Remember how GRIDS became AIDS?

It is not that I am being politically correct, (perish the thought; have I dropped this low since being the infamous banished3 ?), my dear, merely trying to update the terminology to make sure that the designation we use reflects the warm welcome we extend to our visitors. Attempting, in my concilliatory manner, to avoid misleading visitors as to how we regard them, most probably being unfamiliar with the historic derivation of the term.

Yours, Walt
PS, has there been a miscommunication all along? I was hoping to have you regard me as a suitor, if you need a new suit, perhaps someone else with skills in that area can serve as your suiter.
My kneecaps await you, Walt

I had assumed you were handy with needle and thread (sutures if you need lofty semantics)...I must have been mistaken

Paging Dr. Welch,

Lurkers is an okay term as compared to say
peeping tom, prowler, voyeur perhaps.

I'd like to talk about getting an Knifegnugen
shirt from you soon.


[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 27 January 1999).]
Well geez, what with all the banter, I feel like I'm breaking in on a private party

Anyway, I'm with DC here, Walt. "Lurker" is not perjorative. It's the accepted internet word, and it's doubtful we could ever change it by fiat. As new lurkers become posters, they'll just start calling other lurkers "lurkers" again.

Besides, this use of "viewers" or whatever does seem to have that awkward pc-ishness about it. Maybe we should just call them "differently contributing" and have done with it


Politically correct I am not (but I am still too old for DC
), mellowed with age - no doubt about it, but I am still pretty stubborn about things that are important to me. I think Doc's point is to make "our silent contributors" (did I say that it reads lurkers) welcome. For me, I have learned quite a bit from opinions of people who are new to the hobby or have only been in it a short time. They seem to see things with fresh eyes. Every time I have taken or met a “new” person to or at a knife show it has been a learning experience for me too.

hit the salient points for me. I'm an old SysOp and most of the terms still carry the same basic meanings. Lurkers, flames, etc. One of the newer ones I could do without is spammer but I digress.

The key IS to make these folks who have newly found these forums feel comfortable enough to post. In my SysOp days there was a mandatory "welcome aboard" read file which accompanied registration in turn required to post in the "non-public" areas or to download more than a very insignificant number of files. We've matured beyond the old public and private areas, allowing all who choose to read, to read. A better mousetrap is needed and that might fall to Mike and Spark to post a welcoming banner on the home page or someother tactic. A "newcomers" forum or "SIG" (for special interest group as we used to say in the old days) is a concept that no longer is valid.

Then again, sorry if I appear to contradict myself but I say this based upon experience, the old adage of bringing a horse to water and not being able to make him drink also applies. Many folks simply seek information and find that others have asked their questions (if they're adept at searching) and have no real need to post queries or contributions. You'd be surprsied how many e-mails I've gotten about the Spydie Moran and/or the Edge-Works sheaths from folks who have read about them here, acquired or were in the process of buying, but not posted here at all. (As an aside, the response has been so heavy that Scott has set up a dedicated page on his web with a link to secure ordering for these sheaths as he had previously done with his all-way designs.)

You create an inviting environment and when the need or urge develops, lurkers become forumites. There is absolutely nothing wrong with either status. This place dispenses and exchanges information. It can be taken proactively or passively. Either way it accomplishes much with the mix of "hits" it gets.

Sorry to ramble a bit......


Always yield to temptation as it may never pass your way again!
God save us from those who want to save us from ourselves.
Forgive your enemies....but not before they're hanged!
Rascality has limits; stupidity has none.

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!

[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 27 January 1999).]
I like the word "lurk" for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that it's kind of amusing. It's what big fish do in deep lakes. What's pejorative about that? In my mind, it means "waiting by", but not idly. It's more active than loitering, and less active than stalking. And what's more, the word is fun to say. Try it. Lurk lurk lurk lurk. Good word. I'm putting it on my list of favorites.

With all due respect, Walt, put your knife away. No need to castrate the language.

David Rock
Is this a knife forum? Are you guys desperately trying to impress us???

I'm reminded of a loser playing a boom box extra loud in the subway since its his only way to get attention. Also, the music he's playing is just so cool and, by inference, so it he. It's so pathetic.

So, can't you misfits do this privately without an audience - i.e., by e-mail.

I, for one, have better things to to than read this miserable trash! I guess some people just have too much time on their hands!


Only kidding! Did I have you going! I don't mind at all you guys showing off your mastery of.......whatever. I'm especially proud to post on a thread started by one who has been thrown off the Benchmade Board for no greater crime than speaking his mind (I posted about "Benchmade Losing Its Edge".) A man after my own heart. The pen is truly mightier powerful than the sword.

[This message has been edited by FULCRUM (edited 27 January 1999).]
Personally, I think it's time for a new segment in this forum; "The Walt & DC Show",
or maybe like in the old SNL "Point/Counterpoint", with Dan Ackroyd & Jane Curtain as the hosts. It would have to be more entertaining than the political forum, eh ? I'll subscribe, after all, where else could you get two such dedicated verbal parriers ? Just my humble .02.

Oh, oh, time to duck...
Sounds like Walt is just trying to call a "consumer" an ELU (End Line User)? Sorry, I couldn't just "Lurk" (view).
Looks like Walt needs to write himself another perscription

And where is my VIAGRA!

Thanks for the T-shirts BTW I failed to do that on the phone yesterday.

I can't really ad anything to this thread other than I was a lurker on Rec.Astronomy for a long time before I posted. I must admit though if you are a lurker once you decloak there is no going back

Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

Nah, i like lurker. It suits me. Wait a minite (which i have never been able to spell correctly), i'm posting. A condtradiction...

I think that "lurker" defines a mindset, not a post number. I could have 300 posts and i would still consider myself a lurker.

Besides, i've learned so much in about a month of reading, without having to expose my ignorance

In no particular order, here are my responses to the treasured replys by my beloved posters:

Smoke; get your ass in gear and e-mail me: there are only about a dozen KN shirts left, XXL and XXXL only. I have already recieved four or five orders since posting on KFC about the lack of previous support for KN.

Joe; your talent for excellent advice seems to be in temporary abeyance."Differently contributing?" There is only room for one comic on this post, turkey.
BTW; off topic, can we get a dictionary/spell check in here? I am getting a hernia from looking up words like abeyance; having caught DC in a rare spelling error, I am looking up every fifth word!!

Bald1; I love you like a brother; truly, your gift of the language is the equal, at the least, to my own. However, you missed your calling; you should have been a politician. I have read your post three times trying to figure out just exactly what you said. But, it sure is interesting!! PS; my best to your son, Erich Allmen, corpsman USN, assigned to USMC, soon to be deployed somewhere outside the USA.

I talked to Erich last nite, and he is a truly fine young man. I was wonderfully reassured that there are 'a few good men' left. I believe he will end up a doctor. FYI, the USN corpsman have the distinction of being the most highly decorated unit in the Armed Forces. That is what happens when you practice medicine, unarmed, on a battle field. He has my deepest respect and admiration.

David; the fact that I feel the term perjorative is ipso facto evidence that other newbies do as well. If that is not enough for you, (groan as picks up Oxford Unabridged), here is the definition:

lurk: 1) to lie hidden, ready to spring out, attack, etc. ; to lie in wait. 2)to lie concealed or unperceived; as, no selfish motive lurks in his heart. 3)to move furtively; to keep out of sight. This is certainly a word with a sinister connotation.

Rob Simonich; you swine. You just want us to fight, because YOU SELL BOTH OF US THE WEAPONS. PS, about that sword order for DC......

Fulcrum; welcome to the debate. Nope, you didn't have me going. Not since I caught you on a rare slip calling the Mig-27 the FULCRUM. We are buddies.

Mike Turber: WHO needs to gets his meds adjusted? Besides, until you top your wife's offer, no more Viagra, 'tripod.'

Brian; excellent suggestion about the 'point/counterpoint!' I actually considered it for about 5 min. Until I remembered how Dan Ackroyd started out his rebuttal:'Jane, you tedious ****!' I think it would be a very SHORT program.

However, I do appreciate those of you who are assisting my discussion with DC. There has been e-mail back and forth between us about this post. May I say that no selfish motive lurks in my heart. I just want Veto as a playmate and younger brother for my son Andrew, age 7. As far as a status report; I think I have her just where I want her. She e-mailed me "I've won!" after bald1's post. She wonder why I called her 'Kate,' even after I specifically referred to 'The Taming of the Shrew' in the recent past. Heh, Heh.

Seriously, thanks to all of you for your input and valuable comments. You are great people. Walt
Wretched censorship program; won't even let me say 's*ut' (rhymes with 'smut'). This for those of you whose recollection of the SNL 'point/counterpoint' gag is not clear. WW
Walter, Walter...
Spelling errors??? His name is V-I-T-O, Anthony Vito.

And your skill at paraphrasing is dubious at best...I didn't say "I won"....I said "You lose". Besides becoming a PC alter koker (Yiddish, old fart), you are learning the media spin too well. I am worried, are you becoming a Liberal???

I do give you credit,though, for rooting out the motives of that arms dealer in Montana

Fulcrum, did I read that correctly that you just got booted from the BM forum for the recent thread about them "losing their edge"?

Re: Lurkers

Roget's gives us some alternatives to "Lurk": Conceal(er?), Creep, crouch, go furtively ("Furtiver?"), gumshoe, lie in wait (what are they waiting for?), prowl, slide, slink ("Slinker", I like the sound of that), sneak, snoop, hide, and my favorite: SKULK!

None of those are very PC. What shall we do?....I know, we will be perfectly PC and come up with the longest, most hyphonated, tongue twisting silly name that we can all trip over and have to type like "persons-whom-wish-to-remain-anonymous-but-never-the-less-have-very-valid-opinions -that-they-haven't-shared-yet-and-still-play-a-very-import ant-part-of-Bladeforums"

The scary part is, not "what is a Lurker?", but what the heck am I ?!?
With all these "Skulkers" watching us, that would make this more of a show than anything....A show like a circus....and that means WE are the show....and most circuses are full of clowns. That makes me look back at myself and wonder what part I play in all of this. Almost makes me have stage fright. (How did I manage to make this light thread into a philosphical one?)


Ps- To all you Lurkers out there, do not be afraid to speak up! No question is dumb, and if you don't come across as arrogant and be sure to remember that your opinion is the same as everyone else's then you can chime in anything you want and we will respect it even if we disagree.

[added a space to keep the screen from scrolling forever to the side, that's it]

[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 28 January 1999).]