There is still that "Thing" that bugs me about Sage & others..

RetiredGuns

RetiredGuns

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Mar 13, 2009
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I want to preface this post by saying that the Sage 1 is in my pocket right now and has served as my EDC for 90% of the time since I got it over a month a go. I also believe it is a terrific, high quality, user friendly and very well thought out knife. Some will say then why sweat the following. I do not think I am alone in "wishing" that this knife were made in Golden. I may also not be alone in having no problem paying an extra $20+ if it were. There is no use in arguing that it is a good knife because we know it is. It's just one of those things. I completely understand that by being manufactured in Taiwan it has found its way into pockets that may not have been blessed by its presence otherwise, but there is still that "thing". I have the Para D2 and orange Millie and feel that these are through & through must have Spydies. I never come close to feeling the urge to trade either, but am always on the lookout for other Golden knives. I guess all I am saying is that the Sage is so good it deserves a Golden stamp!
Just unloading this sentiment.
 
I also agree, but probably wouldn't have my Sage II if it were. I am trying to buy only U.S. made knives from this point forward.
 
Would it bother you if it were made in Switzerland?, Germany?, Africa?, how about Antarctica?

It is just a location where it was made. Many countries can be credited with making wonderful things...and complete turds. Celebrate the idea that your knife was made well...very well.

I understand your feelings though. Count me in as one who would pay a few dollars extra to have an identical knife with identical attention paid to details created in the country country of my preference.
 
bigmo66 said:
I want to preface this post by saying that the Sage 1 is in my pocket right now and has served as my EDC for 90% of the time since I got it over a month a go. I also believe it is a terrific, high quality, user friendly and very well thought out knife. Some will say then why sweat the following. I do not think I am alone in "wishing" that this knife were made in Golden. I may also not be alone in having no problem paying an extra $20+ if it were. There is no use in arguing that it is a good knife because we know it is. It's just one of those things. I completely understand that by being manufactured in Taiwan it has found its way into pockets that may not have been blessed by its presence otherwise, but there is still that "thing". I have the Para D2 and orange Millie and feel that these are through & through must have Spydies. I never come close to feeling the urge to trade either, but am always on the lookout for other Golden knives. I guess all I am saying is that the Sage is so good it deserves a Golden stamp!
Just unloading this sentiment.
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ME TOO! I really appreciate the way you opened your thought--its not about quality. For me, its about deeper philosophical, economic and political concerns about the very fast paced shift to a truly global world. The shift has happened, as if inevitable. The very "inevitability" of it all is part of my problem with it. I still get to have a miniscule say in the matter in how I comparison shop. Products made in US get a big bump from that geographic fact alone. Products made in other countries that share US values about labor, democracy and the environment get a slightly smaller "bonus." Products made in China, because that country's only shared value is profit, get a massive minus in the product comparison calculus. For me, even products of similar quality are not created equal.
 
I cannot lie, it would bother me less if the knives were made in Germany, Switzerland, etc.. due to their history of finely crafted products however these countries like the US cannot produce their fine wares for pennies. Taiwan is different though and we are seeing some nicer products. Those of you as old as me (49) remember the day when Made in Japan meant junk. That is long gone as a result of economics, a will to succeed and the people making the stuff wanting the ability to actually purchase it!

I sure hope we can keep this thread on target without treading the line of politics. I realize it skirts with the ideal though. It sort of stems from my Boss oogling over the Sage 1 then turning over the knife and seeing it was stamped Taiwan. He was genuinely surprised. I gave him the condensed story of Spyderco quality and the fact that he has seen all my other Spydies convinced him it was a great knife.
 
bigmo66 said:
It sort of stems from my Boss oogling over the Sage 1 then turning over the knife and seeing it was stamped Taiwan.
Click to expand...

A HA!!!!

I almost suggested this factor. I understand completely! *I* can understand that a well made knife can come from a lot of places...I really wish I was not so shallow that I do not get a little hung up on people looking at a nice knife I am carrying (and paid good money for) and then see something that makes them (and their untrained senses) believe that it is a cheap junky knife.

Not sure if you or anyone else is shallow like me. I will admit it publicly and hope for a light penance. We (I) should appreciate great things for what they are...not what someone else views or perceives them to be.
 
I think the Taiwan factory has more than good prices to offer.
For example, you can get them to work with American steel. I have yet to see a Fox Cutlery knife in S30V.
I get the feeling things are very streamlined doing business with Taiwan compared to Europe.
At the same time, N690CO is a great choice in steel, and I would love to see a "made in Germany" stamp on a few Spyderco blades.

The Golden factory can only do so much, as long as we support the company as a whole I have no doubts that the U.S. production will continue to expand.
 
One big problem is that it isn't just a question of adding a few (or even a lot) of workers. Based on Sal's posts for quite a while, one key issue is that the manufacturing facility would need to be expanded. Even in better and less volatile economic times, that's a big decision that requires looking out over a large number of years. The downside risk is that a missed bet could literally end the company. Outsourcing, which involves relatively little risk to the core company, is very understandable.

It's nice that this thread is staying rational and polite - I hope it stays that way! :D :thumbup:

bigmo66 said:
I want to preface this post by saying that the Sage 1 is in my pocket right now and has served as my EDC for 90% of the time since I got it over a month a go. I also believe it is a terrific, high quality, user friendly and very well thought out knife. Some will say then why sweat the following. I do not think I am alone in "wishing" that this knife were made in Golden. I may also not be alone in having no problem paying an extra $20+ if it were. There is no use in arguing that it is a good knife because we know it is. It's just one of those things. I completely understand that by being manufactured in Taiwan it has found its way into pockets that may not have been blessed by its presence otherwise, but there is still that "thing". I have the Para D2 and orange Millie and feel that these are through & through must have Spydies. I never come close to feeling the urge to trade either, but am always on the lookout for other Golden knives. I guess all I am saying is that the Sage is so good it deserves a Golden stamp!
Just unloading this sentiment.
Click to expand...
 
spyderco is still owned and operated by an american. by not buying a spyderco because it was manufactured overseas, you are still "taking" money from an american.

they are not a chinese (or japanese, or anywhere else) company that has a facility here to emphasize an american connection.

the spydercos i have that were made in taiwan are just as nice, and in one case better, than those i have made in golden. they also tend to be far less expensive for otherwise equal knives.

there are wonderful knifemakers all over the world.

i like swiss watches, japanese cars, chinese food....
 
Everyone's entitled to their feelings and even to their blind prejudices. That's all that's involved here. The Sage I and II are the most consistently well built knives Spyderco offers. For that matter, there have been extremely few complaints about any of the models that maker produces. I suspect they were chosen to produce the models they do because Sal though they could do a better job than anyone else, so mMoving their production would be a step backward.

Paul
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My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twisted up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
 
1. Many in the know will tell you that Taiwan != China.

2. I'd sooner buy from Taiwan than from Germany.
 
All valid points and just what I am feeling. No question of quality as stated in OP, just the good 'Ol Made in America thing. A business ceases to exist when there is no profit and that is not a good thing for anyone.

It was not a question of being "shallow" when my Boss saw the word Taiwan, but more of an opportunity for education. He carries USA made Schrades because it works for him. He was not aware that something as nice as the Sage could come out of Taiwan, nothing more.
 
Hi Bigmo,

We understand your point of view, and we have respect for that point of view. That's why we're continually expanding our Golden factory. But we expand the factory at a level that we feel we can maintain long term. A few US factories have died as a result of growing too quickly or not keeping up.

However, I might point out that the steel is made in the USA. The clip is made in the Golden. The design is from Golden. QC is in Golden.

We are very fussy about our overseas makers (they must be excellent).

We would not be able to provide as many models ar the quantities if we only used our Golden facility.

Also, this particular maker is exceptional. Keep in mind that a new lock needs to be engineered for each Sage model. A real PITA for a knife company. This maker is willing and capable of doing that for us.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Bigmo,

We understand your point of view, and we have respect for that point of view. That's why we're continually expanding our Golden factory. But we expand the factory at a level that we feel we can maintain long term. A few US factories have died as a result of growing too quickly or not keeping up.

However, I might point out that the steel is made in the USA. The clip is made in the Golden. The design is from Golden. QC is in Golden.

We are very fussy about our overseas makers (they must be excellent).

We would not be able to provide as many models ar the quantities if we only used our Golden facility.

Also, this particular maker is exceptional. Keep in mind that a new lock needs to be engineered for each Sage model. A real PITA for a knife company. This maker is willing and capable of doing that for us.

sal
Click to expand...

Sal, the efforts & quality of Spyderco knives need no explaining! I believe they represent the best offerings in the business.
I am also aware of over expansion as my other hobby is fine acoustic guitars and one of my favorite brands is Tacoma. They were once the fastest growing acoustic guitar builder in the USA and started to offer so many models they couldn't keep up with the core models. The big distributors got miffed and long story short they died in 10 years.

I will continue to patronize Spyderco and good lord willing and the creek don't rise I'll have a bunch!
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Bigmo,

We understand your point of view, and we have respect for that point of view. That's why we're continually expanding our Golden factory. But we expand the factory at a level that we feel we can maintain long term. A few US factories have died as a result of growing too quickly or not keeping up.

However, I might point out that the steel is made in the USA. The clip is made in the Golden. The design is from Golden. QC is in Golden.

We are very fussy about our overseas makers (they must be excellent).

We would not be able to provide as many models ar the quantities if we only used our Golden facility.

Also, this particular maker is exceptional. Keep in mind that a new lock needs to be engineered for each Sage model. A real PITA for a knife company. This maker is willing and capable of doing that for us.

sal
Click to expand...

Do you speak Taiwanese (or whatever is spoken in Taiwan) or Chinese? Does that help you when dealing with these overseas companies or does everyone pretty much speak English anymore? Just curious!
 
I have some familiarity with Taiwan, my father in law having died over there while conducting business about 6 years ago. I have noted this before, but Taiwan is a modern, pro-western democracy, and staunch friend on the United States. It is not the cartoonish, backwater collection of rickshaws that many folks believe it to be.

I understand and respect the pro-America sentiment. I share it to large degree. But I also understand the symbiotic world we live in, and the economic realities of America-only production. My father in law's company had manufacturing done in Taiwan because quality control was first rate, and unionized American labor made it necessary.

I don't have the slightest reservation about purchase goods manufactured by American companies in Taiwan or any of our close allies. Again, for those who do, thats groovy. But there is another side of the story to everything. JMO.

:thumbup:
 
See text in bold - I have a special sensitivity to this, because my mother's family owned a manufacturing company, and the reason that's in the past tense was expanding the plant and manufacturing capacity for an anticipated market demand that fell victim to political and economic changes that had not been foreseen.

Sal Glesser said:
Hi Bigmo,

We understand your point of view, and we have respect for that point of view. That's why we're continually expanding our Golden factory. But we expand the factory at a level that we feel we can maintain long term. A few US factories have died as a result of growing too quickly or not keeping up.

However, I might point out that the steel is made in the USA. The clip is made in the Golden. The design is from Golden. QC is in Golden.

We are very fussy about our overseas makers (they must be excellent).

We would not be able to provide as many models ar the quantities if we only used our Golden facility.

Also, this particular maker is exceptional. Keep in mind that a new lock needs to be engineered for each Sage model. A real PITA for a knife company. This maker is willing and capable of doing that for us.

sal
Click to expand...
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
Do you speak Taiwanese (or whatever is spoken in Taiwan) or Chinese? Does that help you when dealing with these overseas companies or does everyone pretty much speak English anymore? Just curious!
Click to expand...

The people that we work with in Taiwan speak English.

In fact, everyone that we deal with in Japan, Taiwan, Italy and China speak English. Email communications with all of our makers is a daily occurance.

I might add that I agree with Powernoodle about Taiwan.

sal
 
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