There is still that "Thing" that bugs me about Sage & others..

Sal, I apologize for even posting about the Taiwan thing. I realize that it will inevitably be taken as negative by some. I spent 20 years, 1 month and 8 days in the Marine Corps and I have seen first hand the pride and quality of goods coming from many of the countries I visited. I also realize that Taiwan takes great pride in working with Western companies to produce top notch, high quality products. I reckon the "Born in the USA" thing in me is just really strong! :)
Bottom line is my Sage is a superb knife!
 
I could be wrong, but somehow I don't think the outsourcing that Spyderco does is the same as the companies that close down operations in one state, laying off all their workers, to move to the Mexican border to chase a little profit on their spreadsheets.

Applying one TalkRadio solution to all instances isn't going to work well.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
i like swiss watches, japanese cars, chinese food....
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I like Japanese watches, Japanese motorcycles, Mexican food, and Spyderco knives. :D
I would be willing to pay $20 more if the Sages were made in the USA but I do understand it's more complicated than that. Taiwan doesn't bother me one bit but, I do refuse to buy any more spydercos made in China regardless of their quality or value.

As long as we're commenting on the Sages, I wonder what the odds are of having the Sage3 come with the laminated ZDP blade. ;)
 
Hi Bigmo,

No problem on my end. No apology necessary. It's good discusion. We like the opportunity to learn and share opinions. It also gives us the opportunity to share our own thoughts and actions.

Transparency helps with trust.....and trust is the bottom line.

Thanx much for your service. Gail and I always appreciate our troops.

Hey Morimotem,

Thanx much for the "Special Forces coin". It's appreciated.

Hoopster,

We do underastand that point of view as well. Probably no luck on the ZDP laminate. :o

Thanx for the kind comments Shunsui.

sal
 
hoopster said:
I like Japanese watches, Japanese motorcycles, Mexican food, and Spyderco knives. :D
I would be willing to pay $20 more if the Sages were made in the USA but I do understand it's more complicated than that. Taiwan doesn't bother me one bit but, I do refuse to buy any more spydercos made in China regardless of their quality or value.
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the "made in china" spydercos ive had were not of the quality of the golden or taiwan made. i would rank as follows:

1. golden
1a. taiwan
2. japan
4. china

for that reason i tend not to buy the chinese made, but i dont rule them out because of the country of manufacture.

As long as we're commenting on the Sages, I wonder what the odds are of having the Sage3 come with the laminated ZDP blade. ;)
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now we're talkin!!!


(but i dont need the laminate)
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Bigmo,

No problem on my end. No apology necessary. It's good discusion. We like the opportunity to learn and share opinions. It also gives us the opportunity to share our own thoughts and actions.

Transparency helps with trust.....and trust is the bottom line.

Thanx much for your service. Gail and I always appreciate our troops.

Hey Morimotem,

Thanx much for the "Special Forces coin". It's appreciated.

(Probably no luck on the ZDP laminate. :o)

Thanx for the kind comments Shunsui.

sal
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my pleasure sal!!

i was glad to finally meet some of your crew!
 
JNewell said:
One big problem is that it isn't just a question of adding a few (or even a lot) of workers. Based on Sal's posts for quite a while, one key issue is that the manufacturing facility would need to be expanded. Even in better and less volatile economic times, that's a big decision that requires looking out over a large number of years. The downside risk is that a missed bet could literally end the company. Outsourcing, which involves relatively little risk to the core company, is very understandable.

It's nice that this thread is staying rational and polite - I hope it stays that way! :D :thumbup:
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Agreed on all points. Very well said also. The only thing I can possibly add that may not be well known to a few here is that Spyderco consists of about just under 40 people. Considering the popularity and longevity of the company, they have a great formula at work.

One other thing, the original Spyderco knives were all made overseas if I remember reading a post by Yab or Deacon maybe? over on the Spyderco forums. I take great comfort knowing the following:
1. Even though a couple of the knives I love are being assembled overseas, Sal makes sure they do what they do the right way, or it's the highway.
2. Spyderco is an American owned company, based in the good old U.S.A., profit from those overseas knives comes to this country. :thumbup:
 
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Sal Glesser said:
Hoopster,

We do underastand that point of view as well. Probably no luck on the ZDP laminate. :o

sal
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Oh well, it was worth a try. :D I can live with S30V, I'm enjoying my Sages immensely. Thanks for responding Sal. :thumbup:
 
I think the people that ask for Golden Made don't understand the the F&F of the Sages is are better than even the Golden Models. If it bothers you to such a degree that you can stand it just remove the Tawain off the blade. I think old stereotypes about Tawain manufacturing are more at play with these type of complaints rather than legitimae quality issues.
 
EDIT:Nevermind

I'll practice leaving shiny footprints this time :)
 
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I'm not from the US-in fact I'm ethnically Chinese (Singaporean by nationality) so maybe my perspective will be a little different.

I own two Seki Spydercos (both Delicas, though I have had a Stretch) one Golden one (Military) and one Taiwan-made one (the Gayle Bradley). The build quality of the GB is, as has been mentioned, excellent. It trumps that of the Military and the Seki models easily. I paid MSRP for the knife, and would have done so gladly-I would not have done so for the Mili or the Delicas.

I've also gotten to handle a Sage, and it lived right up to my expectations. In fact, it has come to the point where "made in Taiwan" (by that particular manufacturer) has become more appealing to me than "made in Golden, CO". The prices are lower, the build quality is better, the materials (comparing the GB and Mili here ) are better. For the endline user, it just seems to be a better deal.

Of course, living in a country which imports everything does do that to you, and being a teenager who hasn't yet had to earn his keep means that I'm probably not seeing the big picture here. Take my words with a pinch of salt :)
 
SteelSnob said:
I think the people that ask for Golden Made don't understand the the F&F of the Sages is are better than even the Golden Models. If it bothers you to such a degree that you can stand it just remove the Tawain off the blade. I think old stereotypes about Tawain manufacturing are more at play with these type of complaints rather than legitimae quality issues.
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Just to keep the thread on track, remember that quality was never an issue. :)
 
I heard or read somewhere that there are more people in China who speak English than there are in the United States. Maybe they are attracted to the simple alphabet, or maybe it helps them compete in a global economy.
 
I believe as time marches forward, point of origin may become less and less relevant. Many folks that are on the forums are of the age when built in america equaled substantial pride (not that it still doesnt, but I dont think as much with younger generations versus my parents who are in their 60's.) But, as we all the know the global world is changing and eventually quality may be the only qualifier to the next generations. With that being said, I think it is great spyderco gets the best from all over, I am carrying a golden native right now. I think discussions like this are great!
 
powernoodle said:
I have some familiarity with Taiwan, my father in law having died over there while conducting business about 6 years ago. I have noted this before, but Taiwan is a modern, pro-western democracy, and staunch friend on the United States. It is not the cartoonish, backwater collection of rickshaws that many folks believe it to be.

I understand and respect the pro-America sentiment. I share it to large degree. But I also understand the symbiotic world we live in, and the economic realities of America-only production. My father in law's company had manufacturing done in Taiwan because quality control was first rate, and unionized American labor made it necessary.

I don't have the slightest reservation about purchase goods manufactured by American companies in Taiwan or any of our close allies. Again, for those who do, thats groovy. But there is another side of the story to everything. JMO.

:thumbup:
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I'm with Powernoodle on this. Taiwan is NOT China (not that there's anything wrong with China, per se). Taiwan more closely resembles South Korea, IMHO, in that it is a thoroughly modern, westernized, American-friendly nation. Like South Korea, Taiwan would not exist as a separate nation without the United States. And like the Koreans, the Taiwanese know how to make stuff really, really well. The Taiwanese-made Spydercos are exquisite.
 
I don't post much, but after all Spyderco just like any other company has a business to run, these days stuff is made all over the place, as long as the quality is there it should not matter.

Let me tell you a story I learned. About 15 years ago when I was in college I was reading a motorcycle magazine while I was at the local book shop. On the back cover it had a picture with a Kawasaki motorcycle. It was green their traditional color. This is what the Ad said: "It stopped being fair long time ago, now we just rub it in"

What it meant is this: Honda cycles WERE at one point winning races left and right and they were beating every cycle manufacturer. This was in the 60's and 70's As time passed, others got access to better materials and computers and started catching up. That is what Kawasaki did, started winning races.

Well, some thing with Taiwan, they do make a lot of quality products now. Is called the global economy.

Sal, now only if I can find a Calypso Jr. with a VG10 blade that would make my day :)

Chris
 
jlamb said:
I believe as time marches forward, point of origin may become less and less relevant. Many folks that are on the forums are of the age when built in america equaled substantial pride (not that it still doesnt, but I dont think as much with younger generations versus my parents who are in their 60's.) But, as we all the know the global world is changing and eventually quality may be the only qualifier to the next generations. With that being said, I think it is great spyderco gets the best from all over, I am carrying a golden native right now. I think discussions like this are great!
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I don't think its a question of "American pride" for the most part these days, I think its a wish to keep money within the borders of the country you live in, or at least within the borders of countries which have similar values and who have been longstanding military and economic allies. Its a form of solidarity to keep friends and family members in their jobs. Me and mine first.

My view on this may be different from most people, I'm not American, but I live here, and I will continue to buy American made products and will tell my boss that I find it unethical that he outsources work to countries with cheaper labor. I'm by no means a fanatic about it, and will gladly buy a Spyderco knife that is made in Taiwan, but I make sure to buy one made in Golden the next time. Guess the real winner is Sal ;)
 
I have no problem buying something made in a country that is as staunch an ally as Taiwan. I only have one Taiwan-made Spyderco so far (Gayle Bradley), but if it is indicative of the quality that this particular manufacturer can produce, it is not my last one from Taiwan.
 
bigmo66 said:
Just to keep the thread on track, remember that quality was never an issue. :)
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I'm sure you didn't intend it to be. Problem is, whenever you talk of moving production of an existing product from "Factory A" to "Factory B", quality automatically becomes an issue, just as cost does. That's true regardless of whether A and B are located in different countries, or across the street from one another. When someone suggests a move, directly or indirectly, they are either assuming quality will remain the same or increase, or saying they'd be willing to sacrifice quality for the sake, in this case, of a tang stamp.

You acknowledged cost when you said you'd be willing to pay "X" dollars more, the question becomes, would you be willing to pay that for a less perfectly finished knife. My contention, and I think I own and have owned enough Golden made Spydercos to make it valid, is that while Golden produces some of the toughest, strongest, folders in Spyderco's lineup, their fit and finish is anywhere from a notch to several notches below that seen on the best Seki and Taiwanese models. If that's not a problem for you, that's fine. Pride of ownership does not always relate perfectly to quality.

Paul
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