Things have gotten stupid !

Feb 4, 1999
I sold a knife from my collection. A Dozier Proguide. Anyway I hate to wait so I hate to keep other people waiting. I recieved the MO today and immediatly went to my local MailBoxes etc. (The post office closes at 12 so it was to late) I sent my wife into the store because I was double parked (it is NYC). She comes back out with the box ?!!? They asked her what it was she was shipping and she told them a knife. They said "We are sorry but we dont ship knives or firearms"

What the F*** is that about. Have things gotten so stupid and paranoid that knives are not shipable and catergorized with guns . What gives? What if I were sending my grandma that wonderful set of ginsu knives I saw on TV. Sorry grandma you will just have to gum that meat. Wow! You can make an argument about guns since they are fairly narrow in their usage but a knife has many uses. Do the people at Mailboxes etc not use any. How do they cut twine. Is thier kitchen truly devoid of cutting utensils. How do they open up boxes? Are americans becoming so damn soft and politically correct and frightened sheep that kitchen tools and box cutters are dangerous weapons instead of the infinitly useful tools they were designed to be. This is sad. I started working in supermarkets at age 12. Used a box cutter every day. Never cut anyone but myself with one. If you use one in the commision of a crime you should rot in jail. Why is everyone paying for some a holes.

No big deal I'll ship it on monday from the post office as Ive done with so many others but .... It just scares me a little. OK alot. Not that they wouldnt ship it but that we are as a nation becoming so soft that shipping tools is suspect.

Hope they are not coming for my table saw blades next. Giant throwing stars ??!! My hammers make GREAT weapons are they next.

Man Its really sad to see what we are becoming ... to see how every day the government takes more responsibility for us. Im a big boy .. I can make my own decisions.

This might belong on Politics. Move it if you think para.

My Knife Page

[This message has been edited by Boriqua (edited 01-13-2001).]
Alex, it really is a sad state of affairs. I don't tell them it's a knife anymore(not their business), I usually just say it's a handcrafted handtool.
It's always blame the object for doing wrong instead of the person who commits a crime. Just another reason I like my dog better than most of the mindless bipeds walking around.
Hope to see you at ECCKS,
Hey Boriqua!
Don't think that things has gotten stupid, rather that stupidity is just going on in it's usual stride.
Sad world blaming inanimate objects for wrong doing

Be well!/Jonas aka 2Sharp

"May all your detonations be expected"

The coolest bar in the world:
My knives!
Put "Tool" down if they must know.

And if they really get curious. "gift or present"!

I think not letting the contents be known stops UPS employees from stealing it. They had such a problem with them stealing the handguns because they had no problem hiring thieves.
I could see the gun thing, especially if someone was stupid enough to ship a Loaded Gun and when they threw the box into the truck it hits the shelf and BANG one wounded truck driver! But not allowed to ship a knife? give me a break, I'll bet the company doesn't say they won't ship a knife but the person at the counter just assumed that the rule also related to knives or Weapons in general...lets hope so!


"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...
Welcome to the reality that us Brits face. Give it a few years and knives will be outlawed etc.


"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Ranger motto
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gary W. Graley:
I could see the gun thing, especially if someone was stupid enough to ship a Loaded Gun and when they threw the box into the truck it hits the shelf and BANG one wounded truck driver! But not allowed to ship a knife? give me a break, I'll bet the company doesn't say they won't ship a knife but the person at the counter just assumed that the rule also related to knives or Weapons in general...lets hope so!




UPS did not ban the shipment of handguns for safety. (mailbox is another issue)

UPS required that every hand gun be shipped next day air. This way the box would keep on the move, being tossed perhaps more. They had a problem with thieves within. So, they decieded to raise a handgun by $50 before it gets to you from the dealer. ($25 from maker + $25 to dealer). Further, I agree some idiot may not unload the firearm prior to shipping, but a gun going off by itself is highly unlikely.

Mailboxes Etc., is a contract retailer for UPS.

A year or so ago, a poster reported taking a package to a UPS office and the clerk produced a knife, cut the package open, rummaged through it, repacked it, and taped it back shut right in front of him. When he objected, he was informed that the service contract he had just signed (yes, that little chit they ask you to sign is a legal contract) specified that he agreed to all of UPS's rules and regulations. One of those rules and regulations is that UPS may open and inspect the contents of any package.

Well, I am well-known as no fan of UPS, but I still don't like to see anyone defamed on the net when such a story just couldn't be true. No business would do such a thing. So, I e-mailed UPS customer service thinking that they would e-mail back a denial which I could then post in their defense. What they e-mailed back was that while they are not yet at 100%, their goal is to open an inspect 100% of all packages coming from individual shippers. They trust the big mail-order retailers, but individuals get inspected.

I couldn't believe it. So, I e-mailed back and asked why. The reply was that they don't want hazardous items in packages endangering their employees.

So, I e-mailed back and asked first if they could cite some examples of where package contents had endangered employees and, second, why they thought that UPS was getting all of the dangerous packages since the Post Office and none of the other delivery services seems to feel this need to inspect all packages. They refused to give examples citing employee confidentiality. And, they refused to comment on the policies of other carriers. In other words, no answer.

Some time later, I saw an item saying that UPS had announced that they would no longer accept firearms. "Well, there you have it," I thought, "Some dummy sent a loaded gun and it went off in transit and now UPS feels the need to inspect all packages." So, I e-mailed UPS to confirm this. They replied that the item I had seen was not correct. UPS will still accept firearms, but not in thier regular "brown label" service, only in their more expensive, overnight "blue label" service. That makes no sense. Why would a gun be any safer in a box with a blue label on it than in one with a brown label on it? The overnight stuff goes mostly by airplane. You'd think that a gun going off on an airplane would be very dangerous. So, I e-mailed back and asked for an explaination.

The reply was that the new policy had nothing to do with safety. There had been to much loss due to employee theft of guns from the brown label service. Boxes in the blue label service are mostly handled by automated equipment, so employee theft isn't as much of a problem.

A Postal Service employee caught stealing from the mail is not only dismissed without question, but will be prosecuted for a federal crime. Because of UPS's union, though, they can't fire an employee even if that employee is caught stealing a gun out of a package even though it is a serious federal crime to steal a gun from a federally-licensed interstate carrier such as UPS.

Instead of dealing with the serious, felonious, criminal misconduct of their employees, UPS passes the problem on to their customers forcing them to ship lawfull firearms via the more expensive service.

When I suggested to UPS customer service that there might be a connection between UPS employees inspecting the content of packages and UPS employees stealing the content of packages, the reply was, "we have forwarded your suggestion on for further consideration."

Hello? Would you like to buy a vowel?

Anyway, those same UPS employees who used to pad their union paychecks with the money they made selling the guns they stole from packages are still out there and my guess is that they're none to happy about the loss of income that UPS's new firearms policy has brought on them. They're probably looking for something new to steal.

Ain't gonna be my stuff.

My guess is that Mail Boxes Etc., got this policy from UPS. UPS requires them to determine the contents of packages from individual shippers just as UPS themselves does. MBE is probably smart enough to know that people won't be very happy if MBE starts cutting their packages open, to MBE asks instead.

The problem is just the same though: employee theft. The vast majority of packages do not contain anything worth loosing your job or facing criminal prosecution over. So, the majority of employees won't risk it. But, if you label the contents on the packages, it becomes an obvious magnet for theft.

Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
It must just depend on the luck of the draw. I walked into a Mailboxes, etc. the other day with a shotgun in a case and they boxed it up and shipped it to a dealer with no problem. Of course this is Texas which is more gun friendly than most.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Boriqua:
Wow! You can make an argument about guns since they are fairly narrow in their usage but a knife has many uses. </font>

I feel that is a prejudiced remark... Guns do have many uses as do knives, It probably does not matter if you just roll over on the gun thing as the Brits have...they still have the freedom to own and use all sorts of knives without restriction...
I mean the use of a knife IS narrow... it is used to CUT as a Gun is to Shoot

If You Abide in Him then,"All His Promises are YES and AMEN"

You think things are bad now??
JUST WAIT!!! Hillary is just getting warmed up! You guys need to dump that b-t-h ASAP!
Get her indicted,
anything you can
While it sucks they are charging people extra to ship firearms ,I can assure you that the UPS employees can't get away with stealing in most cases, because he is a UNION member.I'm a Chief stewart at my shop(not UPS) and know the business agent very well that has our local UPS branch in the same Teamsters local.If an employee gets away with stealing,it's because the company had a lousy case against him or doesn't want to spring for the many thousands of dollars it costs if the case should go to Arbitration.As a Union rep,I'm troubled to see that people perceive the Union as nothing but an avenue that criminals enjoy some type of immunity from wrong doing.While I'm sure some times people may get away with their misdeeds,I can tell you at least in my local,it's not because we want employees to get away with crimes.Even if your UPS union saves a persons job for stealing,which I find to be not the norm,nothing prevents UPS from pursuing criminal charges through local law enforcement.Last time I checked,it was still a crime in most States to steal. I can't imagine UPS has signed any contract with the Teamsters that prevents them from firing an employee that steals.

[This message has been edited by TOMBSTONE (edited 01-13-2001).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">or doesn't want to spring for the many
thousands of dollars it costs if the case should go to Arbitration.</font>

Oh, so the company can fire such an employee, but it'll cost 'em $10,000 to do so?

If the company catches an employee stealing a $300 handgun out of a package, they can pay $10,000 to fire the guy AND pay the customer his $300 claim (which UPS won't do anyway), or they can just pay the customer his claim.

Hmmm... No wonder UPS doesn't want guns in the Brown Label service.

Several of the Portland city police officers where convicted on federal charges of fraud and conspiracy about two years ago. They had contrived and executed a very well-planned and quite large scheme to defraud the city of unearned overtime pay. It became a federal issue because the money to pay that overtime came from a federal grant (part of President Clinton's plan to put a million more police officers on the streets). The city announced that they were going to fire all of the officers involved. Then their union stepped in. When the dust all settled, all but the mastermind of the scheme received only very minor punishments. And the one who thought up and lead the scheme? What happened to him? He was demoted one rank with no commensurate loss of pay.

There was a little item in the paper a few months ago. With the financial support of the union, he is now suing the city claiming that he was improperly demoted.

Last summer, a Washington County Sheriff's deputy failed to handcuff a man who had just been convicted of armed robbery. The officer took the convict out of the courthouse via a side door and led him toward a patrol car to take him back to the jail. The convict grabbed his gun and ran away. The officer, who weighs almost three hundred pounds, was unable to give chase. He deputy did not have a radio with him. He had to walk all the way around the court house and in through the front door since he also did not have (as he was supposed to have) a key for the side door. The suspect, with the gun, was a large for several days. The sheriff announced that for his gross incompetence and for being totally out of shape and physically incapable of performing his duties, the deputy would be fired. The sheriff even released a transcript of the trial. The duputy was supposed to be providing "court room security" for this trial. Twice, the judge had to ask the clerk to wake up the deputy. The union stepped in. While the sheriff is fighting hard in court, that man is still a Washington County Deputy.

Portland, Oregon has a sworn police officer who is currently serving twenty some years for rape. He continues to collect a full policeman's salary since he is officially "disabled". The union has fought every legal attempt to get him either removed from the police force or to cut off his pay. The city tried to transfer him to a different "job" (remember, he is in jail) which would have the same pay but would no longer be considered a sworn police officer. The union fought that!

And those three examples just happen to all be in law enforcement.

I can easily see why UPS would find it cheaper and easier to just refuse to carry firearms than to fight the unions over employees who steal them. If the city of Portland can't get a police officer removed from the roll even after he's been convicted of rape and is in jail, if they have to keep paying him his salary behind bars, then I can only imagine what UPS would have to go through to sack a pilfering box handler.

Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!

[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 01-13-2001).]
The average cost from whatI understand is about $15,000 ,but good guess Chuck.It would cost them only if the Union decided to go to arbitration,but the Union shares the expense,so it cost them plenty to defend someone.It's been my experience that the Union is in no hurry to foot the expense of this process either if the chances are lousy to win.This is of coarse a decision made my business agents and lawyers in each of their own locals,as to the worth of fighting a particular termination.I can see by the nature of your post that you are not a supporter of Unionization.Everyone has a right to their opinion regarding Union labor.
I have personally had to deal with an employer who was abusive and uncontrollable.It was so bad that people were quitting for lesser paying employment.I could just imagine where I might be if it had been so easy to just fire someone.
I don't agree with Union members being "Untouchable"Clearly one has to be responsible for their actions,but the Union is there to make sure that there is fair,unbiased,and consistant excecution of policies and punishments,as well as fair wages.There will always be abuses,such as the ones cited by you.However;If they were convicted of this federal fraud conspiracy,the Union has nothing to do with criminal sentences of such a crime.At this point they should be in prison,so the disposition of their termination should be irrelevent.One cannot keep their job if they are incarcerated.It sounds to me to be more of a failure of the criminal justice system,than the evil Union.One last point;If it costs UPS to fire an employee for stealing,it is well worth the effort at least if for nothing else but as a deterrent.
Hey Alex..

Why tell them anything...

If they ask again say "It's None of your Phucking Business"

They don't need to know...

Either that or tell them you and your wife make amateur porno and it's a video tape going to some of your swinger friends....LOL



On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
yea I can see it now

Said in a conspirital whisper " its some tapes of me, the wife, a great dane and three chickens" Shhhhh

I wouldnt get down the block without them opening it !!

Jeez and if there afraid of that little proguide .... what will they do after seeing the tool I wield.


My Knife Page

[This message has been edited by Boriqua (edited 01-14-2001).]

Along with the nonsense that Mbox.etc. put you through, I thought that I would throw a little more gas on the fire.....The Post Office is closed on Monday for MLK day

C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
Unions have been incredibly important in the history of American industry. Much of the success we have today as an industrial super-power is owed to unions. But, when I see the city unable to fire a police officer convicted of rape and in prison because his union is defending him, I wonder if maybe unions today have become a hinderance to our nation. It often seems to me today that unions have lost their sense of purpose. Safety in the workplace? OSHA's got that covered. Decent wages? Well, you can say what you want to about them, but we have minimum wage laws. Retirement? Again, you can say what you want about it, but Social Security covers that; besides, Union pension funds haven't been getting the best press lately either. Discrimination? We've got all sorts of laws about that now and the ADA too. Sexual harasment is is covered by law. Family leave is now law. What is the purpose of a union today? What mission do they have left?

It seems to me that unions today are searching for a mission. All to often, it seems that their selection of missions and causes isn't very wise. Fighting tooth and nail to keep an imprisioned, convicted rapist on the Portland, Oregon police force is an excellent example.

In the past, unions have enjoyed broad public support. Unfortunately, today's unions have become drunk on their power. As more and more cases such at the three I cited come to light, I fear that unions may loose that public support.

The growing popular image of union labor is that they are over-paid, enjoy lavish benefits, and life-time job security, and that they are lazy, have no attention to customer service, and don't care about quality.

The best way that unions can fight such stereotypes is to demand that their members be responsible, productive, and quality-centered workers. When an employer produces any credible evidence that an employee stole a gun from a customer's shipment, the union should tell that employee, "You are a disgrace to our union. Your actions defame all union members. And we will not defend you. In fact, we're going to drum you out of our union and insist that the employer fire you. We don't want the likes of you in our union and we don't want the likes of you in our workplace." Think about it: would a guy who would steal something out of a customer's package maybe also steal something out of your locker? Do you really want your union paying $15,000 (and that money comes out of your pocket) to keep that man in your workplace?

If unions took this kind of an attitude, if they held their members to a higher standard instead of defending the worst among them, then when a union entered negotiations with an employer, they could say, "What we offer you is a quality workforce held to a higher standard. You will not have an employee theft problem because we don't allow that kind of conduct from our members. You will not have to pay convicted rapists who are in jail. We don't stand for that. You will not have your customers complaining about poor service and poor products. We insist that our members focus on quality in everything they do. We offer you the best workforce available." Heck, if unions could offer such a workforce, then employeers would WANT to work with them and would seek them out.

There is a growing group of oranizations that do make those promises to employer, temporary agencies like Kelly Services and Manpower, and employers are beating a path to their door.

If unions want to know who their enemy is, let me tell you: it is not a police chief who wants to fire a rapists or demote a con artist, it's those temporary agencies who are rapidly taking over the labor industry. Employeers looking for good people are increasingly turning to these organizations, not to unions.

Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!

[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 01-14-2001).]
Gollnick -

Couldn't have said it better myself. Unions played a vital role in US history, but many of today's unions seem to have lost direction and are too often the defenders of the wrong ideals.

Die Entropie der Welt strebt einem Maximum zu - R.J.E. Clausius