Thinking of getting a welder

tryppyr

tryppyr

Joined
Feb 5, 2010
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What type do you use? Gas? Arc? MIG? TIG?

Forge welding isn't an option. Frankly, I've already ruled out TIG, but the other three are still in play. Any advice for a newbie welder? I want to be able to attach extensions and bolsters to tangs. Other projects may present themselves in the future, but for now my needs are modest.

- Greg
 
You probably don't want to weld bolsters on (HT problems), but to weld on stick tangs you won't need much. An old Lincoln "cracker box" stick welder would work. There is probably one of those for sale everywhere (Craigslist, pawn shop, etc.)
 
I don't use them for knives, but I've done my fair share working on cars. MIG is probably the easiest to use.

For knives I think a O/A setup would have more practical uses, brazing, cutting and such.
 
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Ageed with Wade. I think a OxyAcetalene setup would be more beneficial to a knife maker due to all the other things you can do with it.
 
Thanks guys. That's what I was thinking too, based on a book I read... but I thought real world experience would be more useful in guiding a purchase.

- Greg
 
Hey Greg,

If you're just looking to braze threaded rod on your stick tangs for now, you might want to look into a little oxy/map torch kit (for now). They work well for small apps like that and can often be picked up for under $50 including the two small tanks of gas, such as at Grainger, http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3WA92.

All the best, Phil
3WA92_AS01.JPG
 
Oxygas on a hobbist scale can be VERY expensive.
At least, here in Italy oxygen cans (throw away kind) are 20€ each.
And they last about 20-30 minutes of welding unless you use a needle tip, actually good only for the smallest jeweller's work.
That's about 2$ worth every minute of welding. You can hear cost rising like the score on a f...ing pinball machine... :rolleyes:
I have it, I use it (found a refillable can) but sparingly.
All I can do with my inverter, I do with the inverter.
 
Reading another thread reminded me that I probably do have other latent projects that will require welding... such as creating a suitable base for my HF portaband saw.

I did a little investigation on welders and frankly it has me more confused than clarified. I'm reading the Haynes Techbook now, and it's very informative... but I'm only two chapters in so far. Here are the issues I'm concerned about.

Gas: Slag and sparks. Remembering that my work is mostly done in the garage, I'm not too keen on doing anything that will heighten my wife's concerns that I'll burn the house down. One key advantage with gas is that the work can be taken outside... but if the work involves a vise, that's not really an option unless I make a portable vise cart.

Arc: Slag and sparks. Also worried that I'll need a special dedicated circuit that keeps the unit from being portable.

MIG: Need to get a special circuit wired to use it, and then could only use it in that one location.

TIG: Same circuit wiring concerns, but also need gas and more storage space that I care to provide for the light duty work I'm targeting. Also, this is supposed to be the most complex method, and it would take me too long to become sufficiently capable.

I like the entry price of the oxy/map kit and will probably pick one up just because it gets me started cheap. If it turns out I need to do more than that kit can handle, I'll move up to something bigger.

Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions. I'm trying to grow my skills one at a time.

- Greg
 
That's the welder I have, except mine is one size smaller. It works well, although I haven't made the converter to use it with aluminum. Don't forget a self-darkening helmet for it. I picked mine up at a garage sale for $5. One of the top buys ever at a garage sale.
 
There are a lot of MIG and inverter welders that run on ordinary power supply (at least, here in Italy were single phase 220V is standard).
Mig will do all that stick can do.
And you can use inert or semi inert gas to aid in clean welding.
Stick is better for working outside, as even a moderate breeze can blow the inert gas jacket away from the welding pool.
For a generic use, and if portability is paramount, I'd strongly suggest an inverter.
 
If you don't want to mess with inert gas you can use flux core wire on your MIG too. I had a HF 110v MIG with a fluxcore wire setup. It was a little underpowered for automtive work, as they overheat pretty quick, I think it only had a 20% duty cycle... but they work OK for small beads.
 
May I ask why you have already ruled out TIG? If it is cost then I can understand that cause it can be a spendy setup to buy.

But, TIG is actually the best weld there is, it has the smallest heat affected zone of any of the processes and if you get good at it you do not need filler rod for something like attaching threads to a tang. Get a real small tungsten and you can weld those on with less heat than brazing. It does take practice though. I am an AWS certified welder by the way so I do know this subject well. With a TIG setup you can weld 2 pop cans together, you can weld foil together, you can do some real amazing welds with a really small HAZ. (heat affected zone). Just something to maybe consider.

Good luck with whatever you do decide to get.
 
tryppyr said:
Reading another thread reminded me that I probably do have other latent projects that will require welding... such as creating a suitable base for my HF portaband saw.

I did a little investigation on welders and frankly it has me more confused than clarified. I'm reading the Haynes Techbook now, and it's very informative... but I'm only two chapters in so far. Here are the issues I'm concerned about.

Gas: Slag and sparks. Remembering that my work is mostly done in the garage, I'm not too keen on doing anything that will heighten my wife's concerns that I'll burn the house down. One key advantage with gas is that the work can be taken outside... but if the work involves a vise, that's not really an option unless I make a portable vise cart.

Arc: Slag and sparks. Also worried that I'll need a special dedicated circuit that keeps the unit from being portable.

MIG: Need to get a special circuit wired to use it, and then could only use it in that one location.

TIG: Same circuit wiring concerns, but also need gas and more storage space that I care to provide for the light duty work I'm targeting. Also, this is supposed to be the most complex method, and it would take me too long to become sufficiently capable.

I like the entry price of the oxy/map kit and will probably pick one up just because it gets me started cheap. If it turns out I need to do more than that kit can handle, I'll move up to something bigger.

Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions. I'm trying to grow my skills one at a time.

- Greg
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly, you're the fellow that doesn't blink at spending $$$ on Ivory and Damascus for his first projects, so remember that.
This is the place to spend your $ and the upside is that if you buy well, it should last a lifetime.

I agree that an Oxy acetylene torch can be used for bending, rough flame cutting and brazing of threaded rod onto tangs.
Look into Oxy & propane instead, it requires a different torch setup and is not interchangeable with acetylene, but it will simplify at least one of the gases with normal 20lb BBQ tanks and no rental fees.

I fully agree that you should do all your welding outside.

Why do you think that Arc, Mig and TIG are not portable.?
Yes you will need to install a special 220v single phase breaker and receptacle for that load, but then you just need proper extension cord and you can go hundreds of feet. It's very simple it only takes $.

In the simplest terms.
  • Arc does heavy material well, like a forging press frame.
  • Mig does light smooth even passes on light material well-like your porta bandsaw
    (arc would also do that too).
  • Tig is clean and highly controllable and allows for difficult, or specialty work, like welding on a knife blade.

Don't be sucked into wanting something so badly that you buy the first thing you see.
Don't buy a welder or torch from any big box or non welding specialty shop.
A buddy spent $600 on a hardware store buzz box and was out the $ and completely pissed off with it. The quality is lowered to reach a price point.
A 10% duty cycle means you can weld for 1 minute and then wait for 10 to let it cool
If you need a replacement part it may be impossible to obtain the next year as their supplier contracts have changed.
(MIG wire feed uses replaceable tips and such)

As mentioned above inverter technology is fantastic now.
Instead of a huge transformer full of copper, they use little electronic bits to do the magic and those units have an input range that covers most any voltage available.
Even better a single power supply can now be used to weld all processes Arc, MIG and TIG, it only requires changing the accessories.
Setup for MIG and get the TIG pieces when you need them later.

I suggest going to SEVERAL dedicated industrial welding suppliers.
http://www.praxair.com/
or any other…
They have smart sales reps and tech service people that know what you need.
They have demo machines setup ready to go and you can give it a try.
Then you can walk away with the brochures for what you used

(When you weld electric, buy a variable shade auto darkening helmet, they are very cheap now and can shorten the learning curve. I found it very helpful as:
-you can see what you are doing
-you can use both hands if you need to hold that gap steady

I learn well form books, but in welding the sound is important to learn to keep the arc distance steady. Video is pretty good for that.
There are some good welding videos that can show you the basics and how the process works


Wall mountain co has flame, arc, mig and tig videos.
http://www.weldingvideos.com/
I have viewed these and they are very good.

Covell has some good Mig and TIG videos too
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/tools/#videos

You can rent them also, and if you look, they are floating out on the web for free too.
 
I can't figure any reason for having anything but an A/O rig for knife making. It is a very versatile piece of equipment. Solder, braze, fusion weld, heat, and it is capable of very precise cuts with a talented operator. I have an A/O rig, a 225 amp AC/DC stick welder, and a wire feed all in reach of my work bench and never use anything but the A/O torch with knives. I have a few hours under a hood or behind a pair of cutting goggles. Somewhere close to forty years. Not bragging, just stating my bonifidies and I was ASME certified for a lot of that time.
 
montana guy said:
May I ask why you have already ruled out TIG? If it is cost then I can understand that cause it can be a spendy setup to buy.
Click to expand...

It's not really just the cost... it's a combination of the cost and not knowing if I will use it beyond the very limited purposes I can envision today.

And this also answers some of 01234567890's points.

I'm not afraid to spend money. My issue is spending it on stuff that takes up space and yields no value. I have a garage full of old tube type radios. I collected them for a bit, and enjoyed looking at them. Now they just take up space. Lots of space... space I would now rather use for knife making.

If I knew going in that I'd be doing a lot of welding, I'd follow the advice to buy the best setup possible so you invest once and yield benefits forever. But I'm not at that point yet. So for now I'm thinking of buying something that takes up minimal space, requires minimal up front investment (e.g. no need to pay an electrician to rewire my garage), and doesn't require a long training ramp time.

That's basically why I ruled out TIG. I knew in advance it created the best welds with the smallest heat exposure. But what I read about it suggested that it would take some time to get good enough with it to obtain those benefits. And once I invested that time, will I even have any reason to use that skill once my current projects are done?

- Greg
 
All I can say about the continous feed welder from HF is, it takes about 5 min to set up. I walk to the shed and bring it to the shop, plug into 110v. then I start to weld. It takes about 5 minutes to learn how to weld a through bolt to the tang of a knife. Then you grind and clean up a bit. Really easy. If you are not a welder KISS.

I practiced for about an hour welding alot of scrap together when I first got it and got to where I can make a really ugly bead, but it holds. The duty cycle is short on a knife it will not be a problems, what that mean I can only weld for about 30 seconds and then it want 2-3 minutes to cool down, if I trip the themal it will take longer. For a knife this is not a problem, for your stand it would take maybe and hour because you will need to do some short welds and then let it cool. A better machine will give you a longer duty cycle so you may want to consider pricing a better welder.
 
For what you are wanting, an A/O setup or basic MIG is going to work fine for you. I have a Lincoln 140 MIG setup and it ran fine in my garage on any outlet I wanted. I also had a heavy duty extension cord incase I needed the welder in an off spot.

I don't like flux core MIG welding, I had bad results and sloppy welds. So I tried pure argon at someone's recommendation (this was when I first started). Those welds were terrible. I have had the best luck using a gas mix 75/25.
 
Take a look around at local Home Depots and Lowes. I was able to get the display model of the Lincoln 140 for a REALLY good price. Sometimes when they bring in new models you can buy displays at a significant discount.
 
I have a Tig/Stick inverter box system that I can run off 110v/220v single phase. No special wiring needed. So far as the learning curve, Tig is easier to learn than stick. If you can weld with a torch Tig will be a breeze. If you could only have one I would go with a MIG but the TIG/Stick combo really comes in handy for the more intricate welding jobs. I have all the above. I use the MIG more that the other 2 combined. But I use it to weld up my boxes for dry welding so you would not need it for this.

I would seriously look at a Tig inverter box for the jobs you described. Don't rule it out due to lack of knowledge. It just takes a little practice.

Good luck
 
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