This Ain't a Box of Grandma's Cookies!

[Barbarossa]

Most of you know of and responded to my last thread about my "so called lost" package by the USPS. Well I have done everything I could including filing a police report and visiting the pawn shops which I will continue to do but all to no avail in finding my knives. Like the title says these ain't grandma's cookies we're shipping so do think the shipper is responsible to pay if they do not ship properly(insured w/signature confirmation or registered)? The person who shipped them to me should be back from his vacation soon so we can discuss this and what he plans to do. I hope this thread may help in our settlement of what should be done.

 

[Nakatomi]

Hrm, I always insure regardless of buyer preference just to cover my own butt. Never want to have no recourse if a package goes missing. Was shipping not discussed between buyer and seller?

 

[adrock1978]

I would think if both parties agreed on an insured/ shipping confirmation package, the shipper would be responsible. If that wasn't the agreement, outside of being helpful the shipper has no obligation to you. "Properly" is a subjective term. It costs extra to insure and to add confirmation. I've shipped without those in the past because the knife was already at a rock bottom price and would not cover any extras.

 

[Izhmash]

It's on the seller / shipper. Include the costs of insurance & signature confirmation in your pricing structure.

IF the buyer is adamant about reducing prices, and wants to forego any insurance / signature confirmation....then I'd get it in writing and it's on them to worry about.

 

[d762nato]

I have sold and shipped alot of high end guns over the years and have always insured them to the hilt. Always for there full worth at the top end of the market price at the time of sale. I see no difference in insuring knives or any other valuable items that are shipped, with signature comformation and tracking numbers. It only makes sense. I hope everthing works out for you brother.

 

[LMT66]

I just don't understand how anyone that is selling expensive cutlery can ship without insurance regardless of if it was asked for or not.
The seller should absolutely be held responsible for loss unless he asked you if you want it insured and you declined.

IMO, Anything for sale here should have shipping, full insurance and Delivery Confirmation included in the price when listed. It should not be an option to buyers.

Insure - Insure - Insure!

 

[ZenbaaS]

I would think if both parties agreed on an insured/ shipping confirmation package, the shipper would be responsible. If that wasn't the agreement, outside of being helpful the shipper has no obligation to you. "Properly" is a subjective term. It costs extra to insure and to add confirmation. I've shipped without those in the past because the knife was already at a rock bottom price and would not cover any extras.

There is no easy answer but I think adrocks post is the closest to the "truth". Assuming things are insured is a fault of the buyer as well all things considered. If you agreed on insuring a package and then sending it then it should be the sellers responsibility if the **** hits the fan.

Hope you come right bud.

 

[Grimspoon]

I'd be curious to know more about the agreed upon terms.

To hard to call without details regarding the sale.

 

[flatlander]

If the shipper chose to not insure them he is taking responsibility. It only costs a few bucks so why not?

Bob

 

[VoxHog]

That's a tough one and why it always makes sense to discuss who bears the risk of loss on the front end. I'm thinking that if it was not discussed at all then the buyer bears the risk. If the buyer asked for insured shipment and the seller did not then the seller bears the risk.

 

[tomthebaker]

If I choose not to insure a package, I figure I am on the hook for it.

 

[silverbullets]

you bring up a good point, there are knife companies out there that do not insure and if it is lost you are out of luck. That would piss me off. I always insure packages when I ship them, the only time I don't is if they are going overseas but if that is the case the buyer is well aware of the risk prior to shipping and if he wishes to pay the extra fees.

 

[RoyalM]

I voted yes.

There is one condition on that though. If the buyer has asked the package to not be insured when shipped then it is their responsibility when/if the package goes missing.

 

[silverbullets]

I look at it like this, if I buy something it is not considered a completed transaction til the money is in the hands of the seller and the merchandise is in my hands, if I never received it then I am paying for nothing. Just my opinion though it certainly is a gray area

 

[adrock1978]

I disagree with it being the shipper's responsibility. There are plenty of extras that can be added or assumed on a shipped package. If it wasn't discussed, the shipper is only obligated to the bare minimum. "Shipping Included" can be interpreted too many ways to be assumed. "Only a few bucks extra" doesn't mean anything. One dollar that you don't have may as well be $20.

In a perfect world, the right thing would be to insure regardless. Realistically though, its a black and white scenario. Insurance wasn't asked for, it costs extra and the shipper fulfilled the basic obligation of the transaction. Its a lesson learned.

 

[Ankerson]

That package should have been insured period and if it wasn't the shipper is responsible for the loss.

 

[Barbarossa]

I disagree with it being the shipper's responsibility. There are plenty of extras that can be added or assumed on a shipped package. If it wasn't discussed, the shipper is only obligated to the bare minimum. "Shipping Included" can be interpreted too many ways to be assumed. "Only a few bucks extra" doesn't mean anything. One dollar that you don't have may as well be $20.

In a perfect world, the right thing would be to insure regardless. Realistically though, its a black and white scenario. Insurance wasn't asked for, it costs extra and the shipper fulfilled the basic obligation of the transaction. Its a lesson learned.

We had a trade in which I sent two knives to him before he sent his to me due to his traveling which I did not have a problem with as I dealt with him before. The point I am making is I sent all of my packages to him FULLY INSURED with signature confirmation which I paid for and I expect nothing less than the same whether it is discussed or not, especially if he received two of my packages insured before he sent his. Due me the courtesy I give to you, PERIOD!

 

[Bigfattyt]

I had to qualify my Yes vote for the shipper being responsible for insuring the package. I make sure I insure everything I ship for full value, if not more. But if the posting says "insurance extra" my opinion changes. Then I know the price is actually not covering the shipping.

Where you are trading items, I always ship insured, and request that the other party do the same.

I had to qualify my Yes vote for the shipper being responsible for insuring the package. I make sure I insure everything I ship for full value, if not more. But if the posting says "insurance extra" my opinion changes. Then I know the price is actually not covering the shipping.

Where you are trading items, I always ship insured, and request that the other party do the same.


ESPECIALLY WHEN I SHIP FIRST, AND MY PACKAGE ARRIVES SAFE AND SOUND WITH FULL SHIPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On a 20 or 30$ knife I might not expect the same, but even in a low dollar trade like that, if I sprung for shipping and insurance, they damned well better do the same. Especially when they get my package insured, before sending me mine.

 

[Soulrack223]

I would think if both parties agreed on an insured/ shipping confirmation package, the shipper would be responsible. If that wasn't the agreement, outside of being helpful the shipper has no obligation to you. "Properly" is a subjective term. It costs extra to insure and to add confirmation. I've shipped without those in the past because the knife was already at a rock bottom price and would not cover any extras.

There is no easy answer but I think adrocks post is the closest to the "truth". Assuming things are insured is a fault of the buyer as well all things considered. If you agreed on insuring a package and then sending it then it should be the sellers responsibility if the **** hits the fan.

Hope you come right bud.

That's a tough one and why it always makes sense to discuss who bears the risk of loss on the front end. I'm thinking that if it was not discussed at all then the buyer bears the risk. If the buyer asked for insured shipment and the seller did not then the seller bears the risk.

I disagree with it being the shipper's responsibility. There are plenty of extras that can be added or assumed on a shipped package. If it wasn't discussed, the shipper is only obligated to the bare minimum. "Shipping Included" can be interpreted too many ways to be assumed. "Only a few bucks extra" doesn't mean anything. One dollar that you don't have may as well be $20.

In a perfect world, the right thing would be to insure regardless. Realistically though, its a black and white scenario. Insurance wasn't asked for, it costs extra and the shipper fulfilled the basic obligation of the transaction. Its a lesson learned.

Barbarossa, I have to agree with these comments. It would be cool if he chose to split some of the loss with you, but for the seller to assume 100% loss is unreasonable IMO and it ain't gonna happen. Unless, like Voxhog suggested, you requested insurance and he didn't buy it. Then I believe you deserve a full refund. If he'd do that though, then why would he pay you anything back? Good luck.

 

[Grimspoon]

...I expect nothing less than the same whether it is discussed or not...

Never assume, even if you're dealing with a good guy who you've dealt with before.

If you want insurance, make it clear. it's the only way. Signature required is really an extra, and nothing I'd ever assume the buyer wants unless he says so.