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This for real?
- Thread starter rc3mil
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Well if i was making a video of me using my knife and after a few whacks the whole front of the blade just snaps off, i would be like
he had no reaction to it breaking whatsoever...but i could be wrong
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Ontario is known for having inconsistent heat treatments, and especially with their D2. It's not the first time I've heard of it happening. It's one of the reasons that RAT parted ways with Ontario. 
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there is no such thing as an RC-7
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this had nothing to do with bending them....
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its an ontario but honestly, as much as the d2 lovers hate to hear it, d2 is a more brittle than most carbon steels. it is important to remember that this knife is a 1/8" spine with a ffg so it will be weaker than your standard 1/4" saber grinds out there, but d2 is brittle.
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No, my little rant was about people blaming heat treat at the first sign of a problem. I found the assertion that the heat treat had to of been altered as a little ridiculous and went from there.
I am not saying that is the typical behavior of this knife and wasn't really addressing this knife at all. There could be multiple things that were wrong though. There could have been a void in the steel. There could have been an isolated impurity that caused a weak spot. And you don't know what the knife was subjected to before. There could have been a fracture from the original heat treat or from being beat on previously. I don't know the process that Ontario uses but I would think that they heat treat in large batches and that if it was a bad heat treat then there would be 100 other knives floating around with the same problem.
I am by no means a heat treat expert but from what I have read there is a pretty good amount of leeway in temperatures and soak times. With computer controlled heat treat ovens and all the technology that goes into making knives these days, I think the chance of an actual bad heat treat are very slim. Yet this is the reason that is given any time something goes wrong with a knife. I bet I read someone say "it probably has a bad heat treat" about once a day.
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Could very well be. Maybe they just haven't been used very hard yet.
It was clearly something, since the average Mora could have easily withstood the mild whacking that knife got before it broke. If not HT, it might have been bad bar stock, undisclosed previous abuse, stress riser, etc. If you were the suspicious type (I'm not) you might even suspect a saw cut on the hidden side of the blade as part of a malicious attempt to hurt their reputation.
Something happened to that knife, because it wasn't being abused when it broke.
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haha, nice. I had a good laugh at that. If it was real- it served him right, if it was fake, it was farily well done.
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Doesn't mean EVERY knife they make passes that test.
AND there are plenty of NON ABS knifemakers that make blades FAR superior to those made by ABS knifemakers. Now hear me clearly, there are PLENTY of ABS makers that make GREAT knives, but that has nothing to do with this video.
This is a production knife. My challenge stands. Show me a production knife that can stand a 90 degree bend.
And by the way, i think the 90 degree bend test has EVERYTHING to do with a knife breaking while batoning in the other direction. The blade was not heat treated properly and many production AND custom knives are not either.
How many of you own a knife that COULD pass that test?
Carl-
AND there are plenty of NON ABS knifemakers that make blades FAR superior to those made by ABS knifemakers. Now hear me clearly, there are PLENTY of ABS makers that make GREAT knives, but that has nothing to do with this video.
This is a production knife. My challenge stands. Show me a production knife that can stand a 90 degree bend.
And by the way, i think the 90 degree bend test has EVERYTHING to do with a knife breaking while batoning in the other direction. The blade was not heat treated properly and many production AND custom knives are not either.
How many of you own a knife that COULD pass that test?
Carl-
Do Scrapyard knives count as production knives?
http://www.scrapyardknives.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=14808&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1&nt=3
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There was a video on the RAT cutlery website of an RC-3 being bent almost to 90 if not there..... What do I win?
With that said, that could happen to any manufacturer. Bad heat treat happens, imperfections in the suppliers steel happens, voids, cracks.
You could get that with any knife. Not saying the guy didn't tamper with it but it's a possibility for it to break like that from the factory, any factory.
How the company handles the problems and their frequency are what sets them apart.
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Many fillet knives will pass the bend test. Geometry determines how much a blade will flex. Hardness is a measure of how much steel resists deformation under load. Toughness is a measure of how much impact energy it takes to fracture steel.
A thin piece of steel will flex under less load. A thicker steel will require a cubic increase in force to match a linear increase in thickness. A hard piece will resist bending until a higher load is applied. A soft one will bend under less load, which may not be desirable, but happens before the bend becomes a break. A tough steel will not fracture when impacted.
D2 has low impact toughness relative to other tool steels, with A2 having about twice the toughness in the same hardness range. M2 is as tough as D2 at something like 5 extra points of hardness (on a logarithmic scale
)
A thin piece of steel will flex under less load. A thicker steel will require a cubic increase in force to match a linear increase in thickness. A hard piece will resist bending until a higher load is applied. A soft one will bend under less load, which may not be desirable, but happens before the bend becomes a break. A tough steel will not fracture when impacted.
D2 has low impact toughness relative to other tool steels, with A2 having about twice the toughness in the same hardness range. M2 is as tough as D2 at something like 5 extra points of hardness (on a logarithmic scale
)
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Oh really now. How about a real RAT, like a thin little RC-3?
http://www.ratcutlery.com/1095%20heat%20treat.MOV
I think there is another video that used to have up that was even more impressive.
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- Mar 23, 2008
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Beat me to it.
Others can take that kind of bend as well.
Sometimes bad steel gets through to the knifemaker. There may have been a fracture in it that was not visible, or a void, etc. as previously stated. I've seen Dogfathers end up with chips come out of them because of bad steel from the manufacturer. Not Scrapyard's fault. This might not be Ontario's fault, either. Hard to say without knowing more, though. But I'll agree it doesn't look good for Ontario.
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Damn straight. :thumbup:
Kaizen1
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shunsui
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I think Jeff said Ontario had a problem with their heat treat about 2 or 3 years ago, and that they had it corrected by 12/08 or so. But you'd have to do a search and double check. That one looks like one of the potential problems. It would be interesting to have that guy get the metal rockwell hardness tested. I know some people just love extra hard blades. Of course they aren't into batoning and vise bending.