Thomas W... regarding assisted openers

Redrummd said:
This isn't good........ I better start stocking up on mini-mojo's....
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The best part is? I usually carry a large fixed blade (concealed in a IWB kydex sheath), and a pistol, both of which are just fine. Bunch of jerks. :mad:
 
Wow, that really sucks. I was sure that they didn't know what they were talking about, but looking at the actual legislation, they might actually be right. It's worded pretty badly.

From
IC 35-47-5-2
Knife with blade that opens automatically or may be propelled
Sec. 2. It is a Class B misdemeanor for a person to manufacture, possess, display, offer, sell, lend, give away, or purchase any knife with a blade that:
(1) opens automatically; or
(2) may be propelled;
by hand pressure applied to a button, device containing gas, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.70-2000, SEC.2.
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I added the bold type.

By their definition, any assisted opener would be illegal.
Remind me not to visit Indiana.
 
there does seem to be a legal issue if that is the exact wording of the law....
 
Sounds like a question for Mr. R.W. Clark. Isn't he Kershaw's "go to" guy for expert witness stuff? :thumbup:
 
this is ridiculous...

I can open a non-assisted folder pretty darn quick, I don't see how having an assisted opening knife that opens a fraction of a second faster than a non-AO makes it any more dangerous or makes someone more likely to hurt someone else with it.., does not make any sense at all.

another case of the government trying to find a way to punish all of us instead of the people who actually commit crimes with knives and such.
 
Also, the article says, "Danville Police say the knives are illegal in 36 other states in addition to Indiana."

Can that possibly be true? A.O. knives are illegal in 36 states?
 
riffraff said:
Also, the article says, "Danville Police say the knives are illegal in 36 other states in addition to Indiana."

Can that possibly be true? A.O. knives are illegal in 36 states?
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I am pretty sure they are referring to Automatics.
 
The funny thing is i can open my regular knives fatster then my AO and autos. I can open my sog vulcan and waived endura faster then the spring in my leek and spec bump can engage. Its honestly ridiculous. Im not against knife laws, in fact i dont mind most reasonable ones but some are just plain useless and brought on from ignorance and blind fear.....aww now you got me started...
 
The Kershaw speed safe system does not work by hand pressure applied to a button, device containing gas, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife. It works by applying pressure to the blade, not anything located in the handle. It is a gray area but has usually been decided in favor of AO. It is very common for the media and LE to call things automatic. In many cases in their minds there is no such thing as "semi-auto" or "assisted".
 
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kd, I see your point, and I agree its poorly worded and convoluted. However I read it another way (my emphasis added):

Quote:
IC 35-47-5-2
Knife with blade that opens automatically or may be propelled
Sec. 2. It is a Class B misdemeanor for a person to manufacture, possess, display, offer, sell, lend, give away, or purchase any knife with a blade that:
(1) opens automatically; or
(2) may be propelled;
by hand pressure applied to a button, device containing gas, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife. As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.70-2000, SEC.2.


As I see it, no button, no gas, no hand pressure applied to a spring, or other device in the handle. None of these descriptions apply to Kershaw's AO's. The way it is written, hand pressure would have to be applied to a spring, which isn't the case here. Just my opinion, mind you. I'm no lawyer!

It would be interesting to hear Mr. Clark's take on this.

Possibly more PC yak? Yall got local elections up there this November?
 
SOLEIL said:
The Kershaw speed safe system does not work by hand pressure applied to a button, device containing gas, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife. It works by applying pressure to the blade, not anything located in the handle. It is a gray area but has usually been decided in favor of AO. It is very common for the media and LE to call things automatic. In many cases in their minds there is no such thing as "semi-auto" or "assisted".
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Ah, but you are not reading it as they punctuated it, the "hand pressure applied to a button" part is one of the methods of propulsion (even if it is really a method of actuation, not propulsion), it is not referring to what followed (just part of the list). The "spring, or other device in the handle of the knife" are also methods of propelling the blade.

Of course we all know that the knife must be manually opened up to a certain point before the assist takes over, but they apparently are not bright enough to make that distinction on their own.

I agree with you on the gray area, but in this case the Indiana residents may not be so lucky.
 
SPXTrader said:
kd, I see your point, and I agree its poorly worded and convoluted. However I read it another way (my emphasis added):

Quote:
IC 35-47-5-2
Knife with blade that opens automatically or may be propelled
Sec. 2. It is a Class B misdemeanor for a person to manufacture, possess, display, offer, sell, lend, give away, or purchase any knife with a blade that:
(1) opens automatically; or
(2) may be propelled;
by hand pressure applied to a button, device containing gas, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife.As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.70-2000, SEC.2.


As I see it, no button, no gas, no hand pressure applied to a spring, or other device in the handle. None of these descriptions apply to Kershaw's AO's. The way it is written, hand pressure would have to be applied to a spring, which isn't the case here. Just my opinion, mind you. I'm no lawyer!

It would be interesting to hear Mr. Clark's take on this.

may be propelled;
by hand pressure applied to a button, device containing gas, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife.

Possibly more PC yak? Yall got local elections up there this November?
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As you interpreted it, it should have been punctuated like this -

(2) may be propelled by hand pressure applied to;
a button, device containing gas, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife.

Of course I certainly could be completely wrong, but as they punctuated it they could have listed the means of propulsion in any order. i.e
spring, device containing gas, by hand pressure applied to a button, or other device in the handle of the knife.
 
The Kershaw speed safe system does not work by hand pressure applied to a button, device containing gas, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife. It works by applying pressure to the blade, not anything located in the handle.
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Hmmm... The Chive is advertised as having the Speed Safe system. And the Chive blade is definitely spring-loaded, by a spring mechanism inside the handle. The Chive therefore may be considered an Automatic Knife in Indiana.

???

I'm no expert on "assisted-opening" knives, so I'd be interested in hearing a knowledgeable person's response.
 
Hey Esav, you out there?

Since the article linked directly mentions Kershaw, can we get it moved back to the Kershaw sub, or possibly a link there to here? (I believe the latter may be against forum rules? :confused:)

Thanks!
 
I stand by my earlier comment that the wording of the law tends towards them being illegal. It is worded differently than the standard language as it says hand pressure applied to a spring in the handle of the knife. It does not state that you must press a button or lever in the handle, but that simply you must apply hand pressure that then activates the spring in the handle of the knife. I can't see how that would not mean a AO....As a former NYCLEO that has spent too much time in court, I would think a judge in almost any state would say the wording of this law includes AOs as a banned knife....It also seems that the law was updated in 2000 which may have been to change the wording to the present wording so as to include AOs?
 
So, AO's are out, in Indiana, but non-assisted flippers are okay? What about knives with thumb studs? Both of these can be opened in less time than an AO or an auto. :rolleyes:

I'm thinking there's some damn silly people in office in Indiana.
 
I guess after all these people who are looking out for our welfare ban everything else, they will start a ban on sticks or maybe on fists. The problem is that state and local governments cannot control the bad people, so they focus on what people could possibly use to cause harm. If they worked on the revolving door courts and other crime issues, they would not need to worry about what type "weapons" people have. Just for grins, let's say 10% of the people are criminals, our solution is to take assisted opening knives away from everyone. So 90% suffer because 10% are crooks. DUH
 
muddog49 said:
I guess after all these people who are looking out for our welfare ban everything else, they will start a ban on sticks or maybe on fists. The problem is that state and local governments cannot control the bad people, so they focus on what people could possibly use to cause harm. If they worked on the revolving door courts and other crime issues, they would not need to worry about what type "weapons" people have. Just for grins, let's say 10% of the people are criminals, our solution is to take assisted opening knives away from everyone. So 90% suffer because 10% are crooks. DUH
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Best post ever!

mike
 
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