Thoughts and Questions on Knifemaking Today

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Ask the man you are considering purchasing a knife from how he tests his knives and about his guarantee. These are the best questions you can ask a maker.

I read this past quote by Ed Fowler and felt it deserved being discussed further, especially in regards to "knife testing".

Would any makers care to shed light on the process of testing your knives? .. what are the standard -routine tests done on most every knife (if any) before it leaves your hands?

What do you consider the accepted tolerances, and what range of tests are performed by yourself?, .. including destructive testing?

Finally, any comments on what you have learned about your own knives (expected performance potential), and what would it benefit customers to know ?

Ok,' one more, just because: Is the "standard of development" in custom knifemaking based on an artistic scale or a goal of achieving truly better performing knives?
Thanks in advance,
David
 
Aesthetics and performance are not mutually exclusive goals.

Roger

This may be true, but I'm looking (hoping) for more discussion and knifemaker involvement in this thread, including raw data. More than collectors as such we are..

I have a personal theory, regarding the "direction" idea put forth, it often follows the "money trail".. trends, etc... whether true? perhaps not important..

-Thanks for video Lorien, looking forward to seeing when I get to real computer. It looks good so far!
David
 
This thread brought to mind a thought that has been bugging me for years. Does a knife always have to be a super tough tool? Some of the most durable knives show excellent workmanship, but still end up kind of ugly. Some times ugly looks good though.

I may be off base when I think of knives like I think of clothing. For work clothes you want them to be able to take abuse without being destroyed. But you wouldn't expect one of your good suits to be able to take the same treatment.

I would think that the durability testing question would be pertinent to a knife that was destined for serious abuse. But not for a collectible knife.
 
I admit , I don't test each of the knives I finish more than checking to make sure the edge won't roll (brass rod), make some cuts thru 10 oz scrap leather , slide paper and the arm shave test. Rather let the customer put the first marks on the blade ;)

I do have some customers who provide me with great feedback from the knives in use in the field , and that has helped a great deal.

A knife I made as a gift for someone to use on a NZ Stag hunt , he left it with his lead guide for further testing.
Picture516.jpg


Picture525.jpg


the knife that was tested.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/VegasHenchman/Misc/Img_8384.jpg

That is the kind of testing I wish I had the time to put in , but I don't so I have others who do it for me.
http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/VegasHenchman/Misc/?action=view&current=Picture531.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/VegasHenchman/Misc/Picture526.jpg

I try to repeat my processes as close as I can from one knife to the next.

Is the "standard of development" in custom knifemaking based on an artistic scale or a goal of achieving truly better performing knives?
Hopefully towards better performance , though whether most will admit it or not , the chances of many $1200+ knives seeing field use is a very small % of knives sold.
 
I cut up a length of coax to check for chipping and baton a piece of oak across the grain.
The oak is what I use as my "cutting board" when going through the coax so it serves double duty. Sometimes I'll cut cardboard or leather if I have scraps. My arms are always smooth so I guess that gives away another form of testing LOL.

Great topic. I've been curious about how the pros test theirs.
 
I take a few whacks at a pressure treated 4 x 4 and always do the "cutting" tests with the arm hair, paper, etc. I am currently out of 1 inch rope, so I'm not doing that right now.
A good test of sorts for kitchen cutlery can be no more complicated than just opening the sturdy, microwavable plastic packaging that a lot of prepared foods come in. Try it with a knife that someone you know owns that they think is sharp and then try it with one you KNOW is sharp because you sharpened it and feel the difference. When I can no longer feel any significant resistance, the knife is sharp enough.;)
 
That is one heck of a stag!!

I figure if your going on a NZ stag hunt you best have one heck of a knife to finish the JOB!
Some people have ALL the fun!!!

Steve
----------
ABS Apprentice
Potomac Forge
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IN GOD WE TRUST
 
Would any makers care to shed light on the process of testing your knives? .. what are the standard -routine tests done on most every knife (if any) before it leaves your hands?

What do you consider the accepted tolerances, and what range of tests are performed by yourself?, .. including destructive testing?

Finally, any comments on what you have learned about your own knives (expected performance potential), and what would it benefit customers to know ?

Thanks in advance,
David

Any more comments from other knifemakers perusing here..

Thanks,
David
 
Mainly the standard ones here. Chopping 2x4's for bigger knives, rope,leather, brass rod test, slicing rings off cardboard paper towel tubes, etc. I will also take a blade every so often and test to destruction. I also use one of my own knives which provides very good feedback. I am confident my blades will stand up to everyday use, even if it is an art knife. No reason why a knife should not be good looking and functional also.
 
Mainly the standard ones here. Chopping 2x4's for bigger knives, rope,leather, brass rod test, slicing rings off cardboard paper towel tubes, etc. I will also take a blade every so often and test to destruction. I also use one of my own knives which provides very good feedback.

I think all makers should do this. I know that a great many do. I believe this will tell you more about your knives than a lot of contrived and artificial tests will.

I am confident my blades will stand up to everyday use, even if it is an art knife. No reason why a knife should not be good looking and functional also.

AMEN!

Roger
 
Mainly the standard ones here. Chopping 2x4's for bigger knives, rope,leather, brass rod test, slicing rings off cardboard paper towel tubes, etc. I will also take a blade every so often and test to destruction. I also use one of my own knives which provides very good feedback. I am confident my blades will stand up to everyday use, even if it is an art knife. No reason why a knife should not be good looking and functional also.

This is my opinion as well, even though many seem to make the general assumption that a beautiful or "Art Knife" could not possibly perform to a high degree.
 
To make any single knife - whether EDC, hard-use hunter, Bowie, Fighter, folder, art knife, etc. - that was not created to perform to the utmost of that steel's abilities and the maker's capacity to do so, is a damn disgrace to us all.
What are we here for, anyway?
 
To make any single knife - whether EDC, hard-use hunter, Bowie, Fighter, folder, art knife, etc. - that was not created to perform to the utmost of that steel's abilities and the maker's capacity to do so, is a damn disgrace to us all.
What are we here for, anyway?





karl....i totally agree....unfortunately some makers don't do that.....a note to collectors....do your homework on makers-ask around....ask other collectors.....ask other makers.....especially if you don't want an expensive paper weight.....ryan
 
Best of all ask the maker how he tests his knives and listen carefully. Ask about guarantees, what kind of lateral strength you can expect, how he tests for edge holding and toughness. How many knives he tests to destruction and what he has learned through his testing. If collectors start asking these kind of questions the makers will follow.

I feel the goal is for the "honest knife". If the maker says the blade is an art knife and not intended for use, has little lateral strength, or is not meant for heavy work, you know what to expect. Lateral strength is easily evaluated through the use of a torque wrench and readily understood. Both the maker and the client can make choices about the knives they want to make or own, and as long as they are honest we all win.
 
Best of all ask the maker how he tests his knives and listen carefully. Ask about guarantees, what kind of lateral strength you can expect, how he tests for edge holding and toughness. How many knives he tests to destruction and what he has learned through his testing. If collectors start asking these kind of questions the makers will follow.

I feel the goal is for the "honest knife". If the maker says the blade is an art knife and not intended for use, has little lateral strength, or is not meant for heavy work, you know what to expect. Lateral strength is easily evaluated through the use of a torque wrench and readily understood. Both the maker and the client can make choices about the knives they want to make or own, and as long as they are honest we all win.

Mr. Fowler, you used lateral strength 3 times in your post for part of evaluating a knives preformance. Why is this important in a blade?
 
ed....i respect you and what you do alot but that only works if the maker is honest.....i'd rather hear reports from others i trust in addition.....ryan
 
ed....i respect you and what you do alot but that only works if the maker is honest.....i'd rather hear reports from others i trust in addition.....ryan

If I had a reason to mistrust a maker, I wouldn't be buying his knives no matter who might offer a positive report as to their performance.

That said, my experience with makers over a few decades of collecting is that honesty and candor are by far the rule, not the exception.

Roger
 
Mike:
Lateral strength many times is the source of blade failure in exigent circumstances. Consider the worst possible event, you are in a wreck and have only the knife you carry as a survival tool. You need to pry a door open or dig through part of a wall such as some Trade Center survivors had to, and the knife breaks like a piece of glass. Someone may find the broken blade and wonder, but you may not be there to tell about it.

I wrote a story called chopper down for American Handgunner, a crippled transport chopper, immediately followed by three rescue choppers is trying to make it to an aircraft carrier, it almost makes it, then tumbles off the deck, hits the water upside down and sinks like a rock. Only one rescue officer makes it into the chopper, crew is tangled in cargo nets, etc. He cuts two loose, blade breaks on the third and the rest of the crew drowns.

Chris and I over the past 5 years have tested many 'tactical' folders. All but one broke before any measurable torque.

The maker can state that we abused the knife, and that we did. Still we know what the knives tested could take and this is something the maker and client should know, when this variable is understood you have an honest knife.

When we test knives to destruction we need to use every method of evaluation we can in order to achieve the greatest knowledge from the test.

Many times survival is a matter of odds and or luck, the more we know about the tools we carry the greater our chances for survival.

There is no shame in making a knife with little lateral strength, a great many knives are made that way. When they break or bend very easily the claim is that we abused the knife. When your survival absolutely depends on the only tool you have, when adrenaline is flowing it is very easy to apply a lot more force than you realize. If you and the maker did not plan for this situation, your luck may have just run out.

Many times simple events come together to place us in a bad situation, the better we are prepared the greater our chances of living to tell about it.
Mike - Please just call me Ed.

Ryan:
Asking other makers about one maker may or may not provide accurate knowledge. Still I would not ignore any informatin available, but when we ask the right questions of the maker, he is on the spot and if he guarantees his work we can test to the limit to verify his commitment. I believe it all comes down to your choice of who you can trust.

Thanks for the questions gentlemen.
 
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