Thoughts and questions on recent 110 blade play posts.

[jill jackson]

Thank you! That right there sums it up, how many threads has this subject gone through lately? There are a few on here that just keep repeating themselves..... Come on people. Use "ANY" tool as its intended purpose and it will provide years of service.

All anyone has to do is go to the thread about Buck 110 poor fit and finish and read your posts, to see you are not consistent in your phrase.

 

[buckman110]

Because we "WE" all were trying to beat in your head what we all were saying. Im not wasting my time again. Done with it.

 

[jill jackson]

Sorry buckman, I just can't understand your posts in that thread and your defensive nature in others.

 

[biggerjon]

beautiful knife!

 

[DocT]

I got my first 110 around 1965 or 1966. My friends with other famous (read German) brands all had issue with blades breaking and blade play. My 110 never developed any problems regardless of how many small trees it cut down, how many cans it opened, how many cattle it cut, how much wire it cut (we had a cattle farm/ranch), how many things it pried. When I gave it to my nephew the blade was still tight. I kept my 1981 model and just went and got it out of the drawer. It really took a beating on the farm/ranch. You can see the marks on the bolsters and scales. It has only the very slightest amount of side to side play (probably from prying) and no up and down play at all. My father's 112 is still as tight as a drum, even though he used it all those years on the farm.

 

[TAH]

TAH,

...there are 2 differences between the current knives and those of the 70s/dot era.

The first is the move from a simple pin to a pin and bushing assembly where the blade rides on a soft but smooth bronze bushing. The issue as I've heard knife mechanics describe it is that the bronze can deform under hard cutting, which introduces play.

The second is the use of fine blanking to create blades and lockbars....it still isn't as precise as the hand finishing that was needed with 440C blades. As I understand it, 440C isn't suited for fine blanking but 420HC is. This is to say, fine blanking and 420HC make a more affordable knife than 440C and hand finishing does but may introduce a bit more production variance.

pinnah, thanks for the detailed post and information. Your explanation makes sense. Any idea when and why Buck went to the pin and bushing assembly?

If you use a bronze or stainless steel bushing around which the 110 blade can pivot, it stands to reason that squeezing the bushing between the between the bolsters will immobilize the bushing and control blade play to the extent that the bushing thickness is slightly larger than the blade thickness. These dimensions can be measured with a digital caliper. If no burrs are present, a differential of 2/1000ths of an inch between the the bushing thickness and the blade thickness will yield a blade free of play.
A pin cannot guarantee that the bushing will stay compressed between the bolsters. Therefore a screw is needed to squeeze the bolsters together to immobilize the bushing. In the Buck 186 Titan, a screw is incorporated in the pivot design. In other 110 based knives, a #5X40TPI Helicoil can be inserted in the R/H scale. A #5 counterbore, used on the L/H scale, can allow the #5 cap screw to lie flush with the scale.
You can fine tune the width of the bushing with a piece of sandpaper to get the best combination of ease of opening and lack of blade play.

Good information, tiguy. Thanks!

The one I had that became loose in four directions within fifteen minutes, was not abused at all.

Same here. I had one that started out tight and loosen up in a very short period of time. My knife developed play from light, normal use and just opening and closing it several times. I believe Jill and I purchased these 110s about the same time, which was around 7 years ago. Perhaps it was an unusual bad run.

I got my first 110 around 1965 or 1966. My friends with other famous (read German) brands all had issue with blades breaking and blade play. My 110 never developed any problems regardless of how many small trees it cut down, how many cans it opened, how many cattle it cut, how much wire it cut (we had a cattle farm/ranch), how many things it pried. When I gave it to my nephew the blade was still tight. I kept my 1981 model and just went and got it out of the drawer. It really took a beating on the farm/ranch. You can see the marks on the bolsters and scales. It has only the very slightest amount of side to side play (probably from prying) and no up and down play at all. My father's 112 is still as tight as a drum, even though he used it all those years on the farm.

Good report, Doc. Thanks!

 

[cards94]

pinnah, thanks for the detailed post and information. Your explanation makes sense. Any idea when and why Buck went to the pin and bushing assembly?

As with most things, in order to keep the cost down they found another way and it probably requires less labor.

 

[jill jackson]

Because we "WE" all were trying to beat in your head what we all were saying. Im not wasting my time again. Done with it.

Why do you jump all over me, yet post this stuff in other threads? It makes it seem like you have an issue with my opinion, while voicing yours strongly in other threads. I'm sure if I'd made this post below you'd take issue with me.

You will have to pay shipping to send it to the factory. They will pay back. And as far as bucks quality goes, in my opinion it's slipping bad. I got a new 500 and the handle was cracked and a rivet was loose. Bought a 119 and the edge was layed back way past 15 degrees. If you want a real 110 I'd get a old 2 3 or 4 dot. This new stuff is just sadly disappointing, and I really hate to say that about buck.

 

[pinnah]

Any idea when and why Buck went to the pin and bushing assembly?

It's smoother and customers prefer it.

I can tell a subtle but noticeable difference in the smoothness of the blade movement between my old 70s vintage Bucks and newer Bucks I've handled. My older ones feel a little bit more catchy or uneven when opening them. It's not horrible but if I pay attention, it's there.

In my experience, this is an example of basic trade-offs in product design, which is why we often see such big differences in products for the general public compared to those with higher levels of experience. Skis and bikes have this in spades. Most people should not be on skis made for experts nor on bikes made for dedicated riders.

Most people don't folding hunting knives to ridiculous limits like brush cutting. Personally, I think the use of bushings in the current 110 is just fine and it makes for a very pleasant experience. But it further underscores to me that when I need to cut brush, I should just choose a different knife.

Sadly, I won't make it to hunting camp in November due to foot surgery (cycling will be the death of me) but if I were going, I would be carrying my 110 as I do every year.

Buck 110 and 112 by Pinnah, on Flickr

 

[TAH]

My older ones feel a little bit more catchy or uneven when opening them. It's not horrible but if I pay attention, it's there.

You just described the action of my 110 (2 dot) precisely. Have you found the action gets more smooth over time?

Sadly, I won't make it to hunting camp in November due to foot surgery (cycling will be the death of me)...

Hope your recovery is quick.

 

[sunandsteel]

It's smoother and customers prefer it.

I can tell a subtle but noticeable difference in the smoothness of the blade movement between my old 70s vintage Bucks and newer Bucks I've handled. My older ones feel a little bit more catchy or uneven when opening them. It's not horrible but if I pay attention, it's there.

In my experience, this is an example of basic trade-offs in product design, which is why we often see such big differences in products for the general public compared to those with higher levels of experience. Skis and bikes have this in spades. Most people should not be on skis made for experts nor on bikes made for dedicated riders.

Most people don't folding hunting knives to ridiculous limits like brush cutting. Personally, I think the use of bushings in the current 110 is just fine and it makes for a very pleasant experience. But it further underscores to me that when I need to cut brush, I should just choose a different knife.

Sadly, I won't make it to hunting camp in November due to foot surgery (cycling will be the death of me) but if I were going, I would be carrying my 110 as I do every year.

Buck 110 and 112 by Pinnah, on Flickr

Good luck with the surgery. :thumbup:
I don't push myself with biking, not that I ever did, but I just go at my own pace now and enjoy the scenery.
I agree you don't use a Buck 110 for chopping wood and super hard use. It's made to cut and if you need to use a knife for baton, for goodness sake use a fixed blade.