Thoughts on buying Chinese knives

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Knife Outlet

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I just finished discontinuing the Kershaw Vapor from our website after learning that it is now made in red China. I've been trying to get our website completely clean of Chinese products and I think we're almost there. there may be a few China products left but not many and we still have over 3000 products left to sell. (I don't include Taiwan with red China. I consider Taiwan a friend fo the U.S.)

But I think I'm in a small minority of people who think China is at least a competitor if not an enemy of the U.S. and Americans shouldn't buy Chinese products. It appears most of the rest of the country feels fine about it. How do you feel?
 
I have liked nearly every Chinese person I have met, I have worked with several too, so I can say I like the Chinese people. A history and culture that is ancient and fascinating. Their government is another story. I always think of the Tienaman Square incident and their subsequent denial about what happened there. I am torn between not wanting to support that government and not wanting that decision to adversely affect the people under it.
 
I'm Ok with it. How do you define enemies of US?

Seems to me it would be difficult to arrive at any sort of consesus or consistency in defining what's a good country and what isn't.
 
I only buy American if its possible. If not, I try to avoid sweatshop stuff as much as possible. But I don't make a huge deal out of it.

It does piss me off that things are like that though. Didn't Chevy move alot of its assembly lines to mexico? Theres cheap labor. They don't cost any less than cars and trucks built in America.

I think what your doing is a good thing. It would be cool if there was a section for American made stuff too.
 
I'm torn about this.

I agree that the Chinese government's behavior is especially reprehensible. I certainly understand your reluctance to avoid Chinese commerce, for such reasons.

However, it isn't clear-cut to me that participating in commerce with China supports the interests of the Chinese government. I tend to think of trade, increased interaction through trade, increased wealth from trade, and the various other consequences of trade, as being the most effective means of leveraging reform toward greater freedom.
 
China is defintely not a friend to the USA and I do consider it an enemy. I'm amazed at how quickly we forget about the Korean War and the War in Viet Nam even though we're surrounded by the veterans of those wars everyday.
Not to mention that China trains and arms terrorists around the world.

Still, it is very difficult to avoid buying items made in China. This is mostly because our government continues to give China the favored trading nation status year after year, president after president.

What's really crazy is that I can buy a rifle made in China, but I can't buy a cigar made in Cuba.
Funny, huh?

Allen.
 
Fred, to be honest, I've never seen a good quality knife made in China. The only China made knife I've ever bought was a CAS Iberia Citizen folder. In a word, it was rubbish. I didn't know that Kershaw was having the Vapors made in China (Mine is stamped Japan), but we'll see if the quality is worth the price.

As far as buying a Chinese product goes, well...look around the office or at home. Check out the toys your child plays with. Radios, Television sets, CD players, Timex and Casio Watches, Pencil sharpeners, Cheap sneakers and shoes, the list goes on and on. What isn't made in China these days? I've even seen American flags being sold which are made in China.

Of course, most things made in China don't last very long as cheap labour makes a cheap product, so you kind of get what you pay for, eh?
 
There is no simple answer to this. I don't consider Mainland China an enemy of the US. I find them to have a government which is an "enemy" to human rights, which is a problem in itself. The human rights issue might be enough to keep me from buying any knives made in mainland China. On the other hand, I am in the toy business, and I myself sell product made in China. Like I said no easy answer.

I don't think I gave you a direct answer, but I certain confused things a bit!
 
I appreciate your determination to do business by your principles. That makes me more inclined to want to do business with you. I am relatively unconcerned about trade with China. I think the more communication and trade that they have with the capitalist countries the harder they will find it to take a maverick roll in the world. In the case of low/medium technology products I don't think they pose an international security risk. I am more concerned with transfer of high technology manufacturing and computer equipment to mainland China. Until they stop selling missiles to our enemies we should try and stop them from getting advanced semiconductor fabrication equipment.
 
Products made in China are fairly available everywhere in US.

However, it's still questionable whether if they can make "name brand" quality knives as well as the ones made in Taiwan.

Until the quality of the knives made in china is proven, I won't buy any of them.

Just my 2 cents,
Ted
 
Buying Chinese knives does not support the chinese people. It supports there government. China is definitely an enemy of the US. I applaud Fred for standing behind his principles. It would be a lot easier to sell these chinese knives and pocket the money.
 
While I don't consider China an enemy of America, and they didn't make the cut for the Axis of Evil, I still make every effort to avoid Chinese products.

As far as I can tell, the Chinese do not offer anything unique in knives except low quality at a low price.

I have no desire to buy low quality even at a low price. My sainted father used to say, "The sweetness of low price is quickly overshadowed by the bitterness of poor quality." So, I'm not shopping for the major feature that they offer.

(At this point, someone will reply saying, "I got a brand X knife that's made in China and it's just great." Fine. I'm not saying that they don't sometimes produce a good product. But, overall, on a whole, I have not, myself, been impressed with the quality of Chinese goods that I've seen, knives or other items.)

The major issue I have with the Chinese in general is their total lack of respect for intellectual property rights. Almost everything they make themselves, not just knives, is a blatent copy of some Western design. It's sort of hard for me to understand how a country that was so innovative for literally thousands of years now seems incapable of a forming a single, independent, creative thought.

Sorry, but that's the way I currently feel.
 
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (I certainly don't know all of the members here), but off-hand I'm not aware of a single BF.C member who is Chinese and posts from within China.

I do know that China severely restricts what they allow their people to see on the internet. My guess is that BF.C did not make the short list. To much free-spirited open discussion, apparently.
 
US policy on trade with China is primarily driven by the facts that China has nuclear weapons, China is short of money, and a number of nations and other organizations around the world have no nuclear weapons and would like to buy some.

Therefore US policy is to make trade with China conditional primarily on China continuing to resist the temptation to sell nuclear weapons. Other considerations, such as the desire to influence them to oppress their citizens less, and even the desire to influence them to refrain from selling non-nuclear weapons to nations we are hostile to, have to be secondary. Not forgotten, not ignored, but secondary to the main purpose and not allowed to interfere with the main purpose.

That is complicated by the desire of many US citizens (and others around the world) to boycott China for reasons having nothing to do with their resistance to the temptation to sell nuclear weapons. Worst case would be if the world refuses to buy anything other than nuclear weapons from China -- then there would be no more threat of trade sanctions to inhibit them, and their need for money would be all the greater....

It's a temporary situation. Soon every nation that wants nuclear weapons will have them, whether they buy them from China or build them themselves, and we'll have to deal with that situation. In the meantime, we're dealing with this situation ... and part of the way we're dealing with this situation is to try to slow the spread of nuclear weapons as much as possible, even when that interferes with other goals.
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (I certainly don't know all of the members here), but off-hand I'm not aware of a single BF.C member who is Chinese and posts from within China.
Click to expand...
I just came across this thread with posters from China: from Beijing and new to this forum … also from China … moved from China to USA
 
Though I agree with what you are saying I had the privledge of going to China last year and seeing first hand how and who is making these knives . I disagree with the comment that it makes the govt rich. Kai corp. Kershaws parent company owns the factories that make these knives.So the money goes to them and the Chinese employees . All the people I met are gracious and kind people and happy for the oportunity to suport there families. They love Americans and America and treated me like a king.I'm sure if given the oportunity they would come to America in a second . They were born into there circumstances and have little control over it .I am happy to have a little part in giving those people a chance at a decent living. I don't care for the govt of China either ,nor do I condone there politics. But remember those people that protested in Tienemen square don't either because somewhere they were exposed to the concept of freedom . I won't turn my back on a people because of there govt and hope that by there exposure to our culture they too will force there govt into a democracy. It is all to easy to judge a race by there govt but you will be wrong. Kershaw is also not running a sweat shop. Kai/Kershaw take good care of there employees.and have brought alot of jobs to that area.
Ask anyone who owns a Vapor if it's junk ? Show me a thirty dollar knife that can top it.
My point is not to lecture but to inform.Believe me if I thought this was sweat shop knives or govt funding or anything was shady in any way I would have nothing to do with it. I went,saw and made a decision based on that.Don't be so quick to judge nor so quick to asume And thank God every day that you live in America!
 
I agree with Fred that China has been acting maliciously toward the US.

At the same time, I think it is probably a good thing to have outside companies (like Kershaw) working in China, rather than having China's labor market restricted to Chinese businesses.

Last month I sent Bush a copy of this article

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/55391_kristof23.shtml

with a letter asking him to make this a big priority (China teaching hatred for the US and Japan in schools and media).

Some information on Chinese internet freedom is at
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/asia/china-bck-0701.htm

Some of the guilty parties are also American companies who have helped set up spy systems for China's internet (sorry, I don't have the reference right now--I'll try to get it later if anyone's interested).

I sympathize with Fred's feelings on this matter but I think some other things are probably more helpful than boycotting everything that comes out of China. The issue needs a lot more attention than it's getting. Without that attention, a boycott would probably not even be noticed IMHO.
 
I agree Fred! The more money that flows outside the US, the less jobs there will be for Americans. I have never owned a Kershaw knife, and now I'm even less inclined to do so (I might reconsider if a particular model of interest is made in the US). This is one reason why I buy Benchmade, Busse and Camillus knives - they are made in the US. I happily pay more for a US product than one made in China.

I wonder how much money Kershaw pays the Communist Chinese government for the privilege of having a factory there? That money helps to both further strengthen the government (our enemy) and repress the people.

Thank you Fred - Knife Outlet just moved to the top of my list of knife dealers!
 
My Kershaw Vapor is Marked Japan. People only complain because the quality is low. If China knives were on par with Japan, they would sell regardless of politics.
 
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