Thoughts on Coyotes

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Around here they are killing dogs and cats for food. Why? They are slower than the plentiful hares that swarm the local golf courses. Recently spotted one in my Parents back yard and he seemed more like a cross between a coyote and a dog. Tall and lean with lighter markings than usual. Two weeks later a coyote attacked a small dog on it's owners leash, the womans screams brought help just in time to save the dog. No fear of the woman, attacking in broad daylight, can you predict what an animal like that will do if it comes across and disabled person or a baby? Another disturbing observation, I have seen them running down the highways and main roads in packs of 3 to 4. I say cut back on their numbers when ever possible. Good Luck
 
a couple of weeks ago while I was deer hunting I was sitting down waiting for the sunrise, and sudden I heard one howl and then the pack chimed in behind it....In complete darkness it was kind of spooky.......
 
I kill every coyote I can find. Male, female, pups.........they are all fair game.

They are way too many of them, and locally, they kill goats, deer, quail, pets.........

While the Eastern Red Wolf was native to the area here, the coyote was not.
 
When our neighbor lost over a 100 lambs last spring to Coyotes, the stats didn't help his pay check one darn bit. If they don't concern your income, let go if you want to. We will keep shooting them.:confused:

The difficulty with that is I can't base my moral compass exclusively on my income. Whilst I won't hesitate to kill anything for the right reasons financial reward isn't sufficient alone. That's the path that someone took when they asked me to kill the herons [protected species] that took their unprotected carp. I refused. It is also the path that keepers in the dark ages have taken here to develop such things as owl traps and other abhorrent contraptions.

Whilst it is plain that statistics won't compensate the little farmer trying to eek out a living if I am trying to formulate a general rule I need to go on what the general trends are. For that the statistics are important. And the stats I've looked at seem to show a trivial amount of losses – eg. of all sheep and lamb losses to predation in 2004 [2.22%] a little over half that was attributable to coyotes. Roughly what, 1%. I think if I farmed grouse or something, and lost a paltry 1% to birds of prey, on balance I'd be quite happy. Same with coyotes.

As I said in my first post I am probably rather biased and we don't have coyotes here. Certainly farming here is tough. Farming finds some of the highest suicide rates of all occupations here, so it is clear it is difficult on the emotions as a way too scratch out a living. I sympathize with that, I really do. That said, the outdoors is a bigger picture to me than a few farmers finding it tough going. It was that mentality that has historically found wanton slaughter of so many species, and here the extermination of many predators that will never return. On that, the statistics are more important than local anecdotes.

In sum, my position is that it is preferable to tackle them on a by case basis. That's similar to how I'd treat a fox. I love them but if one was caught doing harm I've got no problem with slotting it at all. What I am opposed to is the “shoot on sight” mentality that gives permission for the plethora of YouTube vids just out blasting them for a bit of a laugh, thinly veiled under the disguise of “it's good for people”.

When you notice how few, one and a baby, have been killed, and where exactly those less than ten bites per year were taking place and why, it just doesn't sit well. All the talk of their threats to infirm humans and whatnot just doesn't hang right. It makes sense that vulnerable and weak people are more at risk but then that reminds me of a Mark Twain quote; “Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it”. If wild creatures are to be censored I want that censorship to be based on the best available evidence, and ultimately that requires a dispassionate counting of the numbers.

I'm going to shy away now because politics is all too close, but I suspect the real elephant in the room isn't the tiny amount of coyote predation it is usually as Dannyboy Leather said; “the economy is much more dangerous to our interests”. That's the same with farmers here. And this; “tend to manage their own numbers. If their numbers inflate, either starvation or disease will get them” is very similar to the situation with foxes here, but not so to hear the report of many a farmer down on his luck. Whilst I'll kill, I am adverse to killing scapegoats.
 
Wow, there are some very interesting views here. Thanks for all the input here. I didnt know that coyotes were so common accross the Americas.
For those that kill them, is there anything that you can do with their bodies to make it not a complete waste? Also, is there a general rule to accertain their numbers in any given area? I can understand the premise of thinning the numbers of an unnatural predator in an area, but what if those numbers are low to begin with?
 
They play hell on the deer population around my neck of the woods.That's enough reason for me to serve a lead salad.
 
Shooting something that doesn't threaten you, and that you have no intention of eating is bloodlust.
Any 'reason' given for doing so is a lie, a rationalization at best. If you're all such manly men, at least be upfront about simply enjoying killing, destroying life.
It must be so galling that it's just not allowed to kill anything and everything, all the time, what a dream that would be!
The dominant attitude here towards the coyote is the same that is responsible for the near-eradication of the bison, the extinction of the passenger pigeon and other species. Too bad people won't learn until the whole world is turned into a nice safe backyard with nothing larger than a vole to worry about.

Kill 'm all. That's the spirit. :rolleyes:
 
It's a tough topic to discuss. Most people of the SOS opinion have had first hand experience with them and their effects on personal safety and livelihood, making it hard to defend allowing the coyote to co-exist.

I have had no direct experience with them other than seeing them in the woods where I live. They're big NE coyotes but all they've done is run away from me or my dog. That said, knowing that they inhabit the area, My young kids do not play outside without supervision. I must admit that on this latter point I have greater fear of some sick human eyeing my kids than a coyote.

Taking all of the above in mind. I think that coyotes have a right to exist in their habitat. The reason that there is an overpopulation in some areas is that before humans upset the balance, coyotes were kept in check by wolves. Wolves being top predators, are pack animals and possess larger territories, intrinsically maintain a lower density than coyotes do. They also tend to give a wider berth to humans than coyotes do, and will less readily mate with feral dogs. The removal of wolves from their original ranges facilitates an increase in numbers of coyotes which generally live in pairs and offspring vacate the family much sooner.

What we have now is an unnatural state where there is less territory to hunt and even the dynamic among coyotes is thrown off. The existence of bachelor packs is much more common than in the past. Nowadays, by killing coyotes on sight, and not fully understanding the particular population in a certain area, the risk is that an established pair which can keep younger bachelors out, can be eliminated, inviting a less balanced group in with greater food requirements.

Another factor is that coyotes are often blamed for the actions of feral dogs and coy-dogs. Yet another consequence of our encroachment.

I have pondered before the question of why as humanity developed, in some areas of the world the relationship between humans and their competition was one of hatred and fear while in other areas it was one of reverence and kinship. The only answer I can come up with is human population density. The unfortunate reality is that our planet is too small for us now and we do and will decide the fate of all other species. Well, except for germs, and mosquitoes, and black flies, oh and cockroaches. All these I kill on sight. :o. Never spiders though.

Good post.

Mostly, I think they should be left alone, unless they're a known problem in a specific area (and a general "they're vermin" doesn't count). They're a natural and useful part of the ecosystem -- I have no qualms about them taking other game animals, and in agricultural areas, they help keep down other pests. I understand why sheep ranchers wouldn't like them.

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for people who move to edges of cities in order to get their own little piece of the crabgrass frontier, and then complain that nature is a bit too imposing.
 
Shooting something that doesn't threaten you, and that you have no intention of eating is bloodlust.
Any 'reason' given for doing so is a lie, a rationalization at best. If you're all such manly men, at least be upfront about simply enjoying killing, destroying life.
It must be so galling that it's just not allowed to kill anything and everything, all the time, what a dream that would be!
The dominant attitude here towards the coyote is the same that is responsible for the near-eradication of the bison, the extinction of the passenger pigeon and other species. Too bad people won't learn until the whole world is turned into a nice safe backyard with nothing larger than a vole to worry about.

Kill 'm all. That's the spirit. :rolleyes:

big talk coming from a European. How many coyotes you guys have there? Lost any live stock to them?

passing judgment on others that live with the dang things, based on your touchy feely philosophy is not productive.:jerkit:
 
It's not my intention to have a negative thread. On the contrary, I'd like this to be a constructive thread on pros/cons of coyotes.
Mods, if this becomes heated, please delete/move or lock.
 
Coyotes have been trapped, poisoned, shot from the ground, helicopters and airplanes, vilified and despised, yet they coninue to expand their range every year. I respect them for the survivor they are and if it makes you feel better shoot every one you can get in your sights, but it is a little like trapping a mouse, in the grand scheme your not really doing a whole lot.

I am a fairly accomplished predator hunter and caller and have killed my share, along with badgers, skunks, wild dogs, raccoons, feral cats, bobcats and one mountain lion, I have no regrets and will continue. If you do not wish to hunt them, don't, but don't presume to be so arrogant that you sit at your keyboard and tell me what is right, just, and moral for me where I live. Chris
 
I think coyotes need to be managed. if you're in a area where they are over populated or affecting the deer herd, or other wildlife then they are shoot on sight. This happens to be the case in the areas that I hunt. I will continue to do so, because the authorities tell me that's what needs to be done. The same people that manage all the wildlife here.

For those that believe that one cited study talking about the deer herd being so much larger than 100 years ago is enough evidence to not shoot a coyote. I ask you to question that study. There are way to many variables and many other subjects that we can discuss that would skew the results of that study. The coyote population is only one very tiny part that would affect that study. So with all due respect. I am not buying what you are selling.

What is the natural predator of the coyote today? What was it 100 years ago?
 
I thought wolves killed coyotes on sight. I was wrong.

http://news.discovery.com/animals/coyote-wolf-large-carnivores.html

Once again BFC encourages me to not be dumb. :thumbup:

Given where these animals came from and the degree of documented genetic diversity, the researchers can tell that a few coyote females mated with male wolves north of the

A story from the locals here is the only time a coyote won’t kill a dog is if it is a bitch in heat. Men, doesn’t matter the species we all want the same thing:D
 
Shooting something that doesn't threaten you,

When they are killing young livestock on your farm, they are threatening the very food right out of the mouths of your family.

Newborn livestock is the profit on your investment of money, time and sweat of hard work for months and years, and evey bit of that is lost on every calf or lamb these flea bitten vermin kill.
 
IToday, the ranchers that we know that run sheep in this area, use either guard donkeys or llamas to keep the coyotes at a distance. The coyotes have learned how to distract guard dogs and get them to chase, however the donkey or llama won't buy it and stay by the sheep. I watched a donkey kill a coyote once and it wasn't a pretty sight! Our cows and horses are safe from coyotes and won't hesitate to stick up for themselves.

What sort of guard dogs were they using and how many?

I have seen some folks around here using donkeys to guard sheep. I saw one day where the donkey and a lamp had fell asleep at one end of the pasture and the rest of the sheep moved off. The lamb woke up in a panic and started running for the heard, which woke the donkey up, so he bolts. It sure had the appearance of the lamb chasing the donkey across the pasture. It was pretty funny.

I live in a high coyote area. I don’t really like shooting things but there has been one that has been coming on our place quite a bit, so if I can get a good shot at him he’s a goner.
 
shoot 'em, trap 'em, the bear and coyotes & the Game Comm. have destroyed our deer herds.

that's pretty laughable (except for the fact that someone might actually believe that)

coyotes aren't going anywhere (well that isn't true- they are indeed expanding their ranges quite significantly) anytime soon

we have an extensive federal and county depredation program here and while it can make a small dent very locally, in the scheme of things it's a drop in the bucket

the only thing I see putting any significant dent in the coyote population in Montana is the price of coyotes increasing to levels we saw in the 70's- that's not going to happen, so I can say with some certainty that coyotes are safe and sound (in Montana anyways)

On wolves, wolves WILL put a dent in coyote populations, it has played out (and is well documented) in Yellowstone (and surrounding area) with the re-introduction of the grey wolf. Coyotes aren't gone from these areas, but their numbers are diminished from previous years (they have also adapted new and interesting strategies in dealing with wolves).

For those that think they can simply go out and shoot as many coyotes as you have ammo, simply have not hunted coyotes (or have not hunted coyotes where coyotes are hunted). They are a VERY wary quarry. Your calling better be up to speed, you had better accounted for the wind, your camo needs to be spot on and you better not miss- you don't get a second chance.

I would never call for the demise of the coyote (anyone who doesn't enjoy the sound of a coyote lullaby at night is a sad individual indeed), but am not the least bit worried that they are going anywhere.
 
:thumbup:Interesting thread

I don't live with them or see them where I am.I'm kind of 'on the fence' on this one.I can understand farmers/ranchers killing them,cause they're threatening their livelihood.OTOH,I can't agree with killing them just for the sake(fun?) of killing them.I have no problem killing rats,mice & other vermin.I guess if I had to live with them,I may just see them as vermin/pests,maybe not though.
 
Many people get all bent over killing coyotoes because they look like dogs. Man's bestest friend.. Cute little fuzzy animals like on the cartoons.

They are beautiful animals at times.

They are a very necessary animal , at times.

They are vastly and I cannot understate vastly overpopulated in this country right now and they have moved from eco-friendly predator , to semi-dangerous pest status.

If we are the stewards of this planet then it is our job to control their population.

Tostig
 
If we are the stewards of this planet then it is our job to control their population.

Tostig

I'll put money on someone saying, "humans are the only animal that needs population control." We know it's coming.

Coyotes are like groundhogs, they're pests if they get too close, I like groundhogs but I don't think twice about killing them if they start burrowing too close to the foundation. They'll undermine your home in no time and attack your pets if they get too close.
 
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