Thoughts on Coyotes

[August West]

For those that think they can simply go out and shoot as many coyotes as you have ammo, simply have not hunted coyotes (or have not hunted coyotes where coyotes are hunted). They are a VERY wary quarry. Your calling better be up to speed, you had better accounted for the wind, your camo needs to be spot on and you better not miss- you don't get a second chance.

I would never call for the demise of the coyote (anyone who doesn't enjoy the sound of a coyote lullaby at night is a sad individual indeed), but am not the least bit worried that they are going anywhere.

Come on, you know all you have to do is play a dying rabbit tape and they coming running for miles around.

I agree with every word of your post, I love coyotes, smartest game I have ever hunted. However, when one comes in and I put the crosshairs on him I don't give a second thought when the rifle cracks. Chris

 

[philwar]

big talk coming from a European. How many coyotes you guys have there? Lost any live stock to them?

passing judgment on others that live with the dang things, based on your touchy feely philosophy is not productive.:jerkit:

Nothing lives in Europe anymore, maybe a fox or a badger here and there, and that is EXACTLY my point.
Thanks for reminding me to mention it. :thumbup:

 

[grunt soldier]

i don't normally shoot much that i don't eat. but i will tell you what when i am watching my 2 y/o little girl and my dog playing out back and in broad daylight see 3 coyote's creeping up on them from the wood line. thats when they are no longer welcome around my house. i am not for the eradication of them and don't honestly believe they will disappear( have you seen how adaptive they are) but when it comes down to this

or some coyotes. i would say the coyotes need to go or at the very least learn some fear. just my opinion though

 

[smersh]

i don't normally shoot much that i don't eat. but i will tell you what when i am watching my 2 y/o little girl and my dog playing out back and in broad daylight see 3 coyote's creeping up on them from the wood line. thats when they are no longer welcome around my house. i am not for the eradication of them and don't honestly believe they will disappear( have you seen how adaptive they are) but when it comes down to this

or some coyotes. i would say the coyotes need to go or at the very least learn some fear. just my opinion though

Given how rare coyote attacks on humans are, they've learned. Not that you shouldn't be paying attention as you look out for your kids, but statistically, your two-year-old is vastly more at risk from your dog.

Statistics and rationality don't have a whole lot to do with how people feel about this issue, though -- on all sides.

 

[grunt soldier]

smersh i agree coyote attacks on children are rare but they do happen. and when the coyote's are brazen enough to come out in broad day light coming towards my daughter and my dog( which is by no means little and very very protective of the little one) w/ no other food around what are they coming out of the woods towards my house for?? its gotta be for something. even when i cam outside w/ the 5.56 they stood there and just watched me until i shot the first one. again nothing is hunting them around here and they don't have a lot of fear. i watched them circle my neighbors goat pen for about 10 mins trying to figure out how to get in.

ohhh yeah smersh one more thing i agree statistically she is more at risk from my dog but if he so much as snipped at her i would drag his big ass out back and shoot him just the same as the coyote. and the way he lets her do whatever she wants to him i think he some how knows that too

 

[Gespenst]

Beautiful dog BTW. Ours is great with our kids as well.

On topic, I figure if the coyotes give reason for concern, handle it. Otherwise I have nothing against them.

 

[wolfenhawk]

Kill them all. They are becoming a huge problem around here. They kill deer, turkey, quail and have even started attacking people in some areas. They will eat anything and most of them stink very badly.

I can't agree with that. Teddy Roosevelt advocated killing off all the predators because they kill deer and other game animals as well as livestock. Try and find a zoologist anywhere that thinks thats a good idea. Animals live in a partnership and prey animals are actually harmed in the long run by eliminating predators. I think it's disturbing to still hear this kind of talk a hundred years later. As far as people being attacked, people are killed all the time by alaskan bears but I haven't heard any call to wipe out all large bears. Or we could just cut down all the trees wipe out all the wildlife, pave everything over with concrete then we'd all be safe. The fact is, nature isn't something we visit, it's something we are part of, and all the species in it are important.

Also don't misinterpret this, I AM a hunter and I consider that makes me part of a balanced ecosystem. And most of the reports I've heard of attacks occurring is in places like Malibu California where there are hunted very little or not at all and have learned to hunt in urban areas. They need to respect humans as a predator, but they DO not need to be wiped out. Not that i think that idea has much chance given the way the coyotes reproductive cycle responds to stress on it's population. In other words you start tryin to shoot'em all and they jus gonna have more pups to a litter and yore gonna wind up with more of em in the long run.

 

[Sparljo]

Neat thread.

My opinion:

Killing Coyotes because they eat deer is a bit misguided.

Disease and starvation play a much larger part in deer survival.

I had also believed that timber wolves would kill Coyotes on sight, but had heard that in the Opeongo they have been observed mating with the females, slowly breeding themselves out.

I wouldnt worry about Coyotes ending up like passenger pigeons or bison. Our ancestors would have killed them ALL if they were easy to kill.

 

[paleojoe]

If it becomes a problem, it needs some control, I agree.
If it attacks poultry or kids, I agree, it needs to be controlled.

But here's a few things to consider: we as humans have been dropping the overall size of megafauna since the wooly mammoth through hunting and development.
The coyote was, at one time, kept in check by cougar's, mountain lions, wolves, etc. We pretty much took care of Grizzly bear's in California, and mountain lion's are less and less spotted. The impact this has had on the local environment is astonishing. Everything in a biological system is linked.
Now there is no salmon. These are truly canaries in the mineshaft for water health.

It works both ways: kill the natural predators, the prey are unchecked. Kill the natural prey, the predators die off.

A few things about the coyote: here in California, about 70% of it's diet is in the rodentia in the ground: gophers, moles, ground squirrels. In fact, coyote urine is sold as a gopher control.

The coyote also has a unique symbiosis with badgers. It is a fascinating sight to see: a badger is a digger, a coyote runs. The badger will out-dig a gopher anyday, but can't chase them on land. So the badger digs and the coyote catches the gopher as it sprints out of the hole. They share the bounty! This symbiosis starts young... I have seen plenty of sign of them both going after gophers and voles in open meadows.

Gophers are already a large pest, but if we had a larger population of Barn Owls and Coyotes in the open areas, their natural predators, gophers would be more in check.

Equilibrium is a hard notion for humans. We think kill them all if they're a pest. Wrong. Keep the numbers healthy. Keep the diversity levels up. Control has come to mean eliminate in the world of integrated pest management.

Another example is the erosion and devastation caused by overpopulation of Elk in Yosemite. The cause was the lack of wolves to control them.

A single species becoming predominant is an indicator of unstable conditions, as in no diversity of plants, prey, etc. Whether ants in your pots, mealy bugs in your crops, or coyotes on your farm, diversity is the key to control. When they start attacking humans, they're hungry. Means they can't find sufficient natural prey. When they start migrating, means they're being pushed out by development or lack of food.

Unfortunately, we're so far down the line, we can't comprehend a diverse system anymore. Our cheap and quick answer, as it has been for some time: wipe 'em out. Then move on to the next in line when it becomes the new pest.... That way insects will inherit the earth!

So, keeping the numbers at bay to protect your animals, kids, etc., I'm all for.
Gunning everyone at sight, not so much....


BTW, Getting a outside guard dog worked with our sheep....

 

[Calebklyne]

Neat thread.
I wouldnt worry about Coyotes ending up like passenger pigeons or bison. Our ancestors would have killed them ALL if they were easy to kill.

this is true, i have only every seen more than one coyote at a time once in my life yet they travel in packs, imho that proves they arent as dumb as we think. Not to mention the fact that they are extremely adaptive they hunt for whatever and wherever, they have even been known hunt with badgers and wolves to bring down larger prey in some cases

 

[koyote]

I, of course, am not advocating killing them all- and this is a tough discussion to have in overly general terms.

As has been pointed out by the many different experiences and stories, there are a whole range of different environments being covered in this thread. In many of these environments, the coyote is being controlled to some extent by human predation. Simply is happening. IMO, in many places, it is fairly well balanced, in others a step up on pelt hunting would be a good thing.

Coyotes are one of the more rare (in capability, not numbers!) species that are incredibly difficult to endanger- as has been pointed out, it's hardly a situation where you just sit down and start hammering like you can sometimes with varminting jacks, squirrel, or turkey. They are very adaptable, intelligent, and (sorry) wily creatures.

 

[paleojoe]

They are very adaptable, intelligent, and (sorry) wily creatures.

Oh yeah. The Coyote's not 'The Trickster' for nothin'!

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

We have lots of coyotes up this way, but they stay well behaved and aren't out of check. No reason to thin them out 'round here--if anything we need more! Our deer population is ridiculous!

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

Coyotes do what coyotes have always done - they find a way to survive. Observing the coyote over the years, I have learned that the coyote is the 'ultimate' survivalist and can readily adapt to his given environment like no other creature I have witnessed. As a rancher, the coyote is not a threat to our cows or horses (we don't own sheep). He does keep down the disease-spreading rodent population around the ranch which we can appreciate. They pose no threat around here to people or the deer and elk population (we have deer, elk, and bear on our land). Our local mountain lions are another story. This time of year, with heavy snows in the mountains, they are now following the deer and elk herds to lower elevations...which means crossing or lingering on our land. We do need to watch the lions carefully because they have killed some of our animals in the past.

You know a wild animal is smart when he decides he would rather take the train than walk. This little guy jumped on board a light-rail transit train heading for downtown Portland, Oregon (who knows, maybe he was going shopping at the mall). The nice folks from Fish & Wildlife kindly escorted him off the train and let him go his way.

 

[dawsonbob]

Coyotes do what coyotes have always done - they find a way to survive. Observing the coyote over the years, I have learned that the coyote is the 'ultimate' survivalist and can readily adapt to his given environment like no other creature I have witnessed. As a rancher, the coyote is not a threat to our cows or horses (we don't own sheep). He does keep down the disease-spreading rodent population around the ranch which we can appreciate. They pose no threat around here to people or the deer and elk population (we have deer, elk, and bear on our land). Our local mountain lions are another story. This time of year, with heavy snows in the mountains, they are now following the deer and elk herds to lower elevations...which means crossing or lingering on our land. We do need to watch the lions carefully because they have killed some of our animals in the past.

You know a wild animal is smart when he decides he would rather take the train than walk. This little guy jumped on board a light-rail transit train heading for downtown Portland, Oregon (who knows, maybe he was going shopping at the mall). The nice folks from Fish & Wildlife kindly escorted him off the train and let him go his way.

I love that picture.

 

[Bushman5]

thats a great picture!

here in BC the 'yote is vermin. There are simply way too many of them, to the point that pets go missing daily, even in DOWNTOWN vancouver.

part of me supports a cull, part of me supports leaving them alone

 

[wolfenhawk]

If it becomes a problem, it needs some control, I agree.
If it attacks poultry or kids, I agree, it needs to be controlled.

But here's a few things to consider: we as humans have been dropping the overall size of megafauna since the wooly mammoth through hunting and development.
The coyote was, at one time, kept in check by cougar's, mountain lions, wolves, etc. We pretty much took care of Grizzly bear's in California, and mountain lion's are less and less spotted. The impact this has had on the local environment is astonishing. Everything in a biological system is linked.
Now there is no salmon. These are truly canaries in the mineshaft for water health.

It works both ways: kill the natural predators, the prey are unchecked. Kill the natural prey, the predators die off.

A few things about the coyote: here in California, about 70% of it's diet is in the rodentia in the ground: gophers, moles, ground squirrels. In fact, coyote urine is sold as a gopher control.

The coyote also has a unique symbiosis with badgers. It is a fascinating sight to see: a badger is a digger, a coyote runs. The badger will out-dig a gopher anyday, but can't chase them on land. So the badger digs and the coyote catches the gopher as it sprints out of the hole. They share the bounty! This symbiosis starts young... I have seen plenty of sign of them both going after gophers and voles in open meadows.

Gophers are already a large pest, but if we had a larger population of Barn Owls and Coyotes in the open areas, their natural predators, gophers would be more in check.

Equilibrium is a hard notion for humans. We think kill them all if they're a pest. Wrong. Keep the numbers healthy. Keep the diversity levels up. Control has come to mean eliminate in the world of integrated pest management.

Another example is the erosion and devastation caused by overpopulation of Elk in Yosemite. The cause was the lack of wolves to control them.

A single species becoming predominant is an indicator of unstable conditions, as in no diversity of plants, prey, etc. Whether ants in your pots, mealy bugs in your crops, or coyotes on your farm, diversity is the key to control. When they start attacking humans, they're hungry. Means they can't find sufficient natural prey. When they start migrating, means they're being pushed out by development or lack of food.

Unfortunately, we're so far down the line, we can't comprehend a diverse system anymore. Our cheap and quick answer, as it has been for some time: wipe 'em out. Then move on to the next in line when it becomes the new pest.... That way insects will inherit the earth!

So, keeping the numbers at bay to protect your animals, kids, etc., I'm all for.
Gunning everyone at sight, not so much....


BTW, Getting a outside guard dog worked with our sheep....

AMEN:thumbup:

 

[DWK2]

The train photo reminds me that the other day I saw a coyote trotting down Kiowa in West LA, only two blocks north of Wilshire Blvd. (one of our main urban arteries---scheduled to get light rail service).

One poster talked about hearing a large group of coyotes in the dark. Once while deer hunting west of Missoula, MT I was walking back to the truck in the dark, alone, from where one of my buddies was field dressing a small buck. A pack of wolves lit up well within 100 yds of me. That will really get your attention! Fortunately, this pack of wolves seemed to be smart enough to know that if they waited for the hunters to leave the kill site, they could have uncontested access to the remains. They didn't bother either me or my friends---although I've read reports of people being threatened.

DancesWithKnives

 

[Rat 1]

Don't kill them unless they try to attack you or your family.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Coyotes are generally harmless to humans unless they are ill.

I have lived in coyote country for most of my life, in KS and TX. I would never shoot a coyote unless it was predating livestock. They are generally small game eaters such as mice and rats, but they will eat anything they can catch.

Killing them just because they are coyotes is ill-guided and very poor wildlife management.

We raised hogs and sheep. If the coyotes left the livestock alone, we left them alone. Not all coyotes will kill livestock. If you kill coyotes that don't bother you, you may have coyotes move in that will.

Andy