Thoughts on Forged in fire

csfarrel, I agree that I the criticism has been mostly about the show format. I think most if not all of us here respect you guys for even trying and giving it a shot. I know there is another thread over in customs and I haven't read that one so I don't know what's being said over there, but based on Lorien's comments folks over there also seem to understand the difficulties of what's being asked of the contestants. I think its a big dysfunctional family here in shoptalk. We may not always agree with each other but we still care!

As far as the show I did want to add what something along the lines of what the count said. This show is clearly taking some cues from Chopped, its a popular format that I've seen other shows copy. In chopped the first five minutes shows off what each contestant does in their daily job making high quality food at nice restaurants and during the competition when something odd is to be used by the contestants the judges will explain its use, who uses it and what it tastes like. I think we need these things in the show and it wont take too much time to do it.

I am really liking the the show and that it is about the only thing on TV talking about custom knives at the moment. I hope they do a season 2 and implement some of these changes, since I feel we are all pretty much asking for them.
 
Forgive me if I came off as blaming the contestants. I was commenting that it looked so scripted that the problems seemed set up. I pointed out that the editing made some things look different than they actually were. I had doubts that smiths with a decade or more experience would make some very basic mistakes, and Chad corrected me in his post.

My only real criticism of a contestant was of the ornamental blacksmith making a decorative object for a bladed weapon competition. It was not aimed at his skills, just his choices.

I will watch the show weekly, and enjoy it....even though I may cringe every now and then. I hope it does go on for a second season. I will consider applying again.
 
I re-posted my response here from a different thread because it was on the same subject within our community which you may have noticed is not that big. I am aware that a lot of the criticisms are of the format (which I also think has been heavy handed as its a show about making blades . Like can't we dig on that? ) But there has been a lot of slamming of the contestants as well maybe not so much in this exact thread but very much so in our community. If I have read it it is very likely that all of you have as well. I posted to make you aware in case you were not, so that the solidarity that I have been accustom to among by fellow metal workers could be maintained and to hold those accountable that would look to demean people who do not deserve it and took a big risk to promote our craft. I am not going to sit here and copy/past every negative comment I see , I don't have time for that. Shit one guy even made a meme about his negative opinion . There is a lot of negative things being said and I honestly think it's out of hand. I think this show is doing a pretty good job, it's not perfect but it is a start and they are doing a good job of presenting our craft as an art and not a drama fest .
 
I haven't read or heard of any "slamming of the contestants"??? I'm not on facebook, so maybe that's where it's happening???

A show on blade smithing, yes I can "dig on that"...

What's a "meme"? :confused:
 
Chris, I get it.

Here's the deal, though. Knifemakers are still people. Lots of people have opinions, and many of them suck. That INCLUDES knifemakers, community or not. In fact, I'll go as far as to say that some knifemakers say some of the dumbest shit I've ever heard! Let it ride, man... You're never going to make everyone happy, and just like Mr. Harding has said above "it is what it is". Make yourself happy. If you're happy, I'm happy.

I know Don's happy, too. Right Don? :D


Hell, that makes ME happy.

Have a good weekend, and don't take these guys to heart. They're just seeing things differently.
 
What's a "meme"?

"Meme" is probably the most misused current buzzword. What it means is a word, symbol, or gesture that gets picked up by some group and is mimicked ( the meaning of meme) by the others. The word/symbol/gesture becomes a statement of the philosophy of the group. One classic example is the raised fist for Black Power. Soon it was also a greeting symbol for bikers, and later soldiers in the field. Each of those very different communities saw a different meaning of solidarity in the meme.

Today, a person who writes a treatise or opinionated social media comment is said to have written a meme if the online crowd re-posts or "likes" it many times. The thinking ( quite wrong in my opinion) is that they are culturally following the idea. That is not what the word means, but you can't stop social media from misusing things.

It is used as an improper synonym for the word koan often. " measure twice - cut once" is a koan. "I think the show is bad because ........" is neither a koan of a meme.

Other memes are:
"Black lives matter"
All the kids at a high school wearing shirts with the photo of a killed classmate
Gang signs
Tattoos
 
I'm being lazy and just copying my post from the C&H forum:

I have enjoyed the couple of episodes I've seen. Matthew Parkinson's sword was the highlight for me, I thought it was quite well done, especially given the constraints.
There are two main issues I see: One, those forges are too hot for heat treating, and beyond that, the light is too bright- hell, I don't even see anyone using a magnet. Do they have any in there? Could there perhaps be one forge for heat treat, at a lower temp or adjustable? Could that area have a shade, or less intense lighting?
I've seen the show compared to "Chopped" several times. I'm assuming contestants are unable to adjust the forges; would it make any sense for "Chopped" to not allow adjustment of cooking temperatures? Temperature control is just as important with HT'ing knives as it is with baking or burners in cooking.
I understand that perhaps it's that way on the show to heighten drama, as I feel cracked blades are pretty unusual for an experienced bladesmith. But, I don't enjoy seeing that and I think it's unfortunate. I didn't see any thermal cycling going on either, which confounds me a little- running that hot, I'd think those guys would have at least normalized once before heating for the quench. Maybe they did, and it wasn't shown.
My other issue is what Paul mentioned- the portrayal of blades as weapons at nearly every opportunity. I understand that it gets ratings, but there is certainly room for the approach to be more balanced. We in the knife world often have problems with our work being seen as inherently violent in some way, or with draconian laws being passed about what is legal to carry or own. I am comfortable enough with that part of bladesmithing that has been and continues to be involved with weapons, but let's not reinforce any lurid notions about knives being foremost implements of violence.
I do enjoy the show, and have no wish to denigrate any of the participants- I think they are doing what they can with what they've been given. I'm looking forward to seeing Mareko on the show- I don't know how much weapon smithing he's done, but I know he's a hell of a smith and will no doubt use his brain to advantage, as well.
 
Salem, heat treating wasn't covered at all on the show, cept for a couple clips of blades being quenched (the fire balls were spectacular). I was told , or read that a 4 hour time was giving for heat treating. This was not mentioned on the show, or any talk of heat treating. Weird I know.

Next episode tomorrow night, lookin forward to it! :cool:
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Owen's awesome. I thought this was well done. I fear it would only appeal to a very small percentage of us, though.
Click to expand...
(Sorry, off the topic of FIF, again...) Matthew, I just wanted to add that I did enjoy that youtube vid, but I was just a bit disappointed in the amount of time the camera man (or woman) spent trying to be artsy instead of keeping the camera on Owen, the bladesmith who was actually making the art. John Neeman's vids, for example, have just the right amount of videography "art" without being overdone or getting in the way of the actual video content, which for me was the case in this particular vid. And I do agree, Owen is a great bladesmith! (which is why I wanted to see more of him).. but that camera man (or woman) seemed to have a touch of ADD during the filming. lol :D

Anyway, I just wanted to make clear that I did in fact (for the most part) enjoy watching it, and I don't want to come across as being "shallow" (or rather, always needing constant action), if that's even the word I'm looking for. :foot: ;)

Alright, back to your scheduled program... :thumbup:

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
 
I saw this show today for the first time. I thought it was pretty cool. It's very neat to see a show about folks making knives.

Yeah, it's dumbed down a little and there is some "drama", but what isn't?
 
Chad - thanks for the info on tempering - it sounds like they "said" they tempered for ya'll? Those are some of the things they really should bring out in the program. I do think it would make it more interesting for the general public. While the general public seems to want drama, I'd think a bit of tech info would be interesting to the general public also....... maybe I'm giving the general public too much credit? Hmmmmm, look who's president now {g}

Ken H>
 
I know a lot of people who have competed on this show, (most of them yet to air) and nothing is scripted... but lets be clear this is NOT a show about the craft of bladesmithing, this is NOT a show about craftsmanship and quality. The items produced during it are in no way indicative of the quality of the work the participants would release from their shops given their own schedule and their own pace. What the show is is a COMPETITION show where the competition happens to be for bladesmiths. This is like a lumberjack competition, you're doing things that you wouldn't normally do on the job. And just like a man who is making his living cutting down trees in the Oregon mountains probably doesn't care about a lumberjack sawing and axing competition at the county fair... anyone on THIS forum reading this is NOT the target audience.

I for one am enjoying the show. It's very hard to get up under bright lights in an unfamiliar shop with a huge clock over your shoulder and have to go start to finish making something, knowing that not only the cameras will see everything you do wrong, but potentially millions of people. I have the utmost respect for EVERYONE who competed on this show.

I see far too many people being critical of the show for not highlighting the craft and techniques and going into the details. Sure those would be interesting to US... but you'd lose 99 out of 100 of the average watchers, they dont CARE what the steel is, nor do they care how you harden and then temper a blade.

My congrats to all who participated, and I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the episodes! =)
 
You would not lose any viewers if you covered the science. This is a ridiculous misconception in the modern television production community. Myth busters did this flawlessly and it's arguably the longest running crafting/science show ever. They are sloppy in the way they are doing this show and you would not have to make radical million dollar changes to its format to cover things like how heat treatment , tempering , normalization , Hamons ect happen
 
I just think the show could be more up front about ALL of the major difficulties facing smiths on the show- the short time and stressful environment are apparent to all, and serve to heighten the drama, but the lack of control for heat treating is not addressed. Seems to me like it would help to explain why some of the "best bladesmiths in the world" are cracking knives all over the place. No need to give the impression that the contestants are inept.

Other than that, I agree that the show is indeed not made for us makers...
 
i for one thing sam salvati woudl kick the hell out of the tests (not making a sexyh blade but a killer user
 
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