thoughts on my ultimate skinner design

J.McDonald Knives

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Jan 28, 2007
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my idea behind this knife is for quicker skinning of a game animal. it will really come in handy when you get a last minute deer or something and need to field dress it and dont have much light. as you can see by the drawing it is small and compact and uses a deer antler for the handle. with a deer antler handle you can grab it different ways. with the blade design you can skin in any direction and back in forth and up and down. no wasted movement. it doesnt look like any typical knife out there but makes things quicker.

UltimateSkinner.jpg


any comments or suggestions on the design would be helpful and appreciated.
 
That looks like a pretty handy design, the handle may be a bit small though, and I'd be kinda worried about it slipping with the taper on the handle.
 
I must be seeing things...thought someone posted about this being a hawkbill blade and I was going to correct them...instead I had to correct my post...I really hope I wasn't seeing things...

The drawing reads handle on the left, blade on the right, right? I would maybe put a gut hook on the top curve of the blade...your blade looks like a good design to keep the meat on the carcass and off the hide. I do like something to rest my thumb on, not just the side of the blade. Maybe leave more of the top edge off past the groove/guard for a longer thumb rest. This design was in your head. Its on paper, now it has to become a pattern for stock removal or just forge it down from a piece of that leaf spring. Make it, see how you like it, see how other people like it and go from there. Speaking from my own experience, it will change as you make it, whether stock removal or forging and it will be similar to your drawing, but not exact- or it could swing radically away from the drawing and be a totally different knife- don't get disappointed with that its part of the creative process.

Burning antler stinks, so I would say don't burn the tang into the handle:barf: .
When drilling the tang slot, don't curse the deer or its antler, either.

If this is your first knife, keep it. If you won't keep it, take some really good photos with a scale and make notes on how/what you did- seems like alot of people here regret losing that first knife later.
 
you're not going crazy, I just had a brain fart for a moment but I realized it right when I hit send so I went back and changed it :D
 
originally in my head i planned for a longer thumb groove on top. the handle might not be that exact same size but it gives you an idea of the handle shape. i wanted a handle that you could hold comfortably in either hand with little to no fatigue while skinning your game. with the blade being small like that i also didnt want a handle that was too big. i plan on also adding 2 finger grooves on the side of the handle so you can just hold it with 2 fingers and rest the handle against the palm of your hand. also with the blade small like that you can easily get into tight areas. i was also thinking about designing a brother for this one that was about the same size that does have a gut hook on it. basically make it a knife set that fits in one sheath. after i design the brother to it ill post it here.

That Other Guy, yes the blade is on the right and the handle is on the left. the edge goes all the way around the blade. the dotted lines in the middle of the blade are the bevel lines.

any other comments or ideas on this knife?
 
I wouldnt use a double edge skinning knife. I am just to used to placing my thumb on the top of the blade for detail work or pressure. Maybe if the top edge stop 1/2 way up the blade and you did some file work for a nice thumb spot. Interesting design though. It's not what I tend to think of as a skinning knife but that can be a good thing. The first time I used a capping knife I thought I would hate it, turns out it worked great. :D Best thing would be to make a few and put them into hunting budies hands. I have found that if you make a hunter have a hard time skinning you will get very honest (and loud) feedback on your knife lol. I think the handle will be a good ambidextrious design.
 
I haven't seen every skinner there is out there but I'd have to say this is way beyond what I would consider the "norm" in skinner design.

You should probably try making a knife or two and see if you can do that before you jump into design. Just a thought.
 
well once i get my belts in i plan to start making knives. im going to start on throwers and then ill work on that one once i get my coordination down. as im making it before i put any bevels on it im going to hold it in my hands in different positions and see how it feels. im going to start with this design and then modify it as i see fit. if all goes well i wouldnt be suprised if i ever saw it in a contest or on tv with one of the pro hunters. it would actually make me feel proud. as you can tell i like to do things taht no one else has done. being a hunter myself i would love to be able to skin a deer faster and with ease so thats how i came up with this design. now i just have to think about a design for its brother.
 
I don't have a whole lot of skinning under my belt, but I wouldn't want a double edge as there's no where to rest your thumb. Putting your thumb on the spine helps with control and leverage.

I also would want a point on the blade for starting incisions and detail work. What little bit of game processing I've done, I used a drop point blade and 90% of the work was done with the belly and point of the blade.

Now if this peice is to be a dedicated skinner and you plan on having another blade handy for field dressing and boning and that sort of thing then you might be ok. That design would work pretty well for scraping the hide and things like that.
 
Jacob, not to be a wise guy, but the blade idea isn't new at all. On page 76 of Knives Annual 1983 there is a knife much like your design. It is done by the now-ABS Mastersmith Pat Tomes. It has differences.... larger, a double guard, and no choils..... but the main feature of the curve-around-the-end-double edge is there.

Knives of Alaska "Brown Bear" is a knife that has the round tip, although not double edge. You can Google that to see.

Now, why am I saying anything here? It's to make a point for you and other young makers. You have to be very careful when you start claiming something is "new" and "different" and "special". It can certainly be neat, and cool, and even WOW, but truly new is something that doesn't happen very much.

My suggestion to you new guys is, rather than saying something you've come up with is brand new, ask whether people have seen stuff like it before. Let them be the ones to tell you it's unique, not the other way around.

I say this not to get down on you, but something you could consider advice from an old guy. It can save you a lot of problems.

Take care, and keep designing. :)
 
Jacob, I think you would do well to listen to the advise of those who have made thousands of knives, and skinned hundreds of deer.

The knife you have designed is a modified ooloo (or ulu in English) skinning knife. They are for removing the hide from a walrus or seal. The main difference between a walrus and a deer is that there is a thick layer of fat under the walrus hide. The knife is slid from side to side and the hide is stripped off whole. Steel was scarce, so the blade was simple and rounded.
A modern skinner for big game has to preform several tasks.
They have to be able to open the hide -A sharp edge at the tip.
Then slit the hide without rupturing the abdominal cavity - a gut hook.
A rounded edge to separate the hide from the flesh - a up swept blade.

Wet knives remove fingers. A guard of some sort is a good idea.
The handle must insure a firm grip. Smooth surfaces and things that get slippery when wet should be avoided. Textured surfaces and finger grooves are best. A thong hole with a thong is useful. It helps in getting the knife out of the sheath easily, and in keeping it in your hand.

The other thing is that you should hold off on booking your world fame tour until you have actually made a knife.
Stacy
 
Check out Knives of Alaska. they have a knife called the Muskrat. it is a double edged skinner with a round, bladed tip, might give you another look at where to put a thumbrest. Otherwise, looks like a good start, but make sure that you have a good place to put all your fingers while you are working.

Good luck
Ken
 
thanks fitzo.

matt, if you look there is a place for the thumb. i might enlongate that or move it forward when im designing it. its small enough for even some of the smallest game and yet great for quickly skinning big game. i know from personal experience that i have had to flip the blade upside down for some areas and with this design you dont have to. it may not be an original from what fitzo says but its my design and what i feel is best for when skinning game. it allows you to get the skinning done and over with quickly so you can start field dressing and processing the meat even sooner. you dont always need a big knife for cleaning an animal. this knife would probably also work well for scraping the fat off the carcass.
 
bladsmith, the brother to this knife will be able to the other tasks. i plan to also keep it small. once i start working on this one and its brother ill field test them myself or have a friend field test it and tell me the results. i might change the design of this one to actually be both in one but be able to do all the tasks. i want something that can clean just about any size game without being too cumbersome.
 
i just designed a new version of that one. what do yall think?

UltimateSkinner2.jpg


out of those two which one do you think is the better one? im going to design a brother for it that will be able to make the initial cut into the skin and also work for the field dressing. ill work on that one tomorrow evening and get yall opinion on them. i have another design in the works that will be a much later project and is a decorational as well as functional piece. ive checked alot of places online and in stores and catalogs and as far as i know it is an original piece.
 
i was bored so i decided to do a rough sketch of the brother to the skinner. i may make the blade longer later one and let it be the top one in the sheath.

UltimateSkinner2Brother.jpg


its purpose is to do all the dressing on small game and on big game be able to get into tight places like cutting the tenderloin and backstrap and save even more of the meat that you would not get with a bigger knife. any comments or suggestions?
 
mrstenoien, glad to know I'm not losing it:D
Mark II and III look good. At the risk of losing out on a bunch of Knife Annuals and other books myself, I'd suggest you check them out on ebay- usually can be had for very little of the original cost. There are definitley alot of makers and designs out there. Another good "hunting knife" book is called, oddly enough, "The Complete Guide to Hunting Knives" and shows alot of designs as well as discusses considerations that went into the designs. There's usually one or two of the hunting knife book on ebay.

The good book says that there is nothing new under the sun and that may be just so. When you think you have an original idea, guess what- you're either just ahead of or just behind the curve- I was putting weaver/picatinny rails on AK handguards before the gunparts companies got tooled up for it. I figured that the AK could be turned into a more accurate weapon by controlling the gasport hole- a few companies now offer adjustable gas blocks for the AK- and I later found out that the Daewoo DR200 rifle already had the type of gasblock that I though I had "designed". I had a few other ideas like that, but again, the curve was ahead of me...sometimes by decades- let alone years or months.

One day a last year the 12yr old girl (thinks she's 25) looked at me and told me that I needed to design a knife that attaches to a gun- I replied, "oh, you mean a bayonet?". Then she rold me I needed to make a knife that was a 22 pistol- I replied. "oh, you mean one of these?" and showed her a drawing from the 1600s in a book. Then she suggested that I make a fixed blade that also had some folding blades, like Mommy's swiss army- I replied, "oh, you mean like this Puma Waidmesser on my table or like the photo of this Scagel?". She threw her hands up in the air and said something like why bother making things if somebody else already thought of it and did it? Why indeed? Ypu can make a more unique knife than a factory can- YOU control the type of materials the piece is made from- YOU decide how the fit should be. If you like a design but want the blade a little longer or have a more or less round curve here or there, or have the edge go back to the guard or whatever,- then YOU can make those changes... You will develop your own style and may even develop an original design idea (or at least a non produced design) of your own.

A detective at work heard I make knives, took a look at a few of them and asked me to make him a skinning knife. Well, I asked him what sort of design he wanted- gut hook, drop point/gut hook- you get the idea. He pulled out a yellow plastic handled Case sodbuster and said he's always used one like this to skin hogs and wanted a blade like that except longer, wider and fixed, not a folder, with a crown stag or stag slab handles- stainless or nickel guard. Guess what- that's what he's getting... and I think it looks pretty nice, so far.

You'll see what I mean- in January I posted about tang trouble with a knife that is my take on the Puma SeaHunter. The knife in question is way bigger than the Puma, has some has some obvious similarities and looks like an amateur did it. But I am proud of it none the less and the lines flow differently than the original, the guard and handle and choices of grips are not Puma - I cut this blank out, shaped it myself and it changed from the first design into what it is now.

I'd say go ahead and forge out or grind one or two of these to the ability you can now- the grinder has arrived, right?
 
thanks for that advice man. once i get better ill start working on those knives there. im still waiting on ups to get my belts in. im going to be ordering a speed controller within the next 3-5 days. i dont have the money for the gas to do any forging of blades. just annealing the leaf springs for practicing with making throwers.
 
You have the angle grinder, right? Cut a few strips off that leaf spring and use the angle grinder to get the blade contour and tang shaped. If you like how that feels, then try shaping the bevels with it. Or use a file to do the bevels- these are very small blades, after all and should be less time consuming that the throwers by that fact alone. Then curse about wanting to heat treat but not having the gas:D
 
i had the bench grinder and even a 4" angle grinder from the start. the reason why i wanted to start with the throwers is that im not putting anything on the handles. i just want to concentrate on the metal work first. getting control when doing the bevels and curves. then ill start on handles. right now im mostly setup for just metal shaping and such. i know i have the gas to heat treat. but im lacking enough CFM output from my blower. i need about another 25 CFMs to reach the higher temp i want without scale buildup.
 
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