Thoughts or Commets on opening a new knife store?

[Jamboi]

I have been there and done that. I set up a knife store at the local Flemarket Saturdays and Sundays only and I still worked as a electrician Monday thru Friday. I did really good at it too. I made my own knife sharpeners and made a killing at it too. I also sold the add on's for knifes and multi-tools. I also sold on the net too. As many web sites as I could find that let me sell switchblades. You need to have some of the junk/crappy knifes too but get the one’s that are made in the USA. The people will come out of the wood works to look at what you got and buy what they want. See if you can sell ammo at your local flemarket and If you start selling guns too you better get a lawyer to look into what the local law says about it. You don’t want to go to jail over something stupid. By the way I did this a very long time ago. because of my health I am no longer there. today time if a very different from when I was doing it. I would walk the flemarket and just look at how many people are carrying bags of stuff that they bought there. Down here in Florida flemarket went to the dogs big time. It is so bad they are not worth setting up at.

I totally agree that flea markets are not what they used to be. It is mainly a bunch of imported cheap crap around here. I am still really thinking about making a small investment in ZT and Ka-Bar/Becker knives and opening up a booth at a local one here. There is a large LE and Military population in this area and hopefully I could start with a small booth and work up to a store over time.

oh I forgot to say I am out of Business due to health reasons but I wish you the best of luck.

I am sorry to hear that and wish you the best. This business is something I am thinking can relax at for a while. I have had a back problem for about 15 years and in the last 2 weeks I fell through a deck with rotten boards and then through the sheetrock ceiling in a house we are restoring. Needless to say I ended up in the ER and have been in terrible pain since. I have decided this house is trying to kill me.

If youre looking at investing thousands in a business it is worth first spending $100 on some good business books. Do your research, develop a business model and see what it looks like. You will need to address how you will generate cashflow, how you can compete (as you have already mentioned you cant compete on price) and a ton of other things. If you decide not to go ahead with your idea yet you will have learned a lot, which will help you with the next idea.

I am currently going through this research and assessment process myself...I feel your pain

The idea of having some kitchen knives isnt a bad one; a lot more people buy kitchen knives than utility/edc etc knives. But you will need to decide who youre targeting and what you want to sell them. You wont have the buying power or cashflow of major stores so if you stock the same items they will beat you on price. One solution may be to stock higher quality items; does your area have a customer base for high end knives though? Do you have a market for it?

Offering other services like sharpening may help with cashflow but the trade off is time; if this is a one-man show how will you sell to customers if you are busy providing another service? Will you have help in the store to handle one task while you do another?

The idea of piggy-backing off another shop could work in the short term, as long as the store owner has integrity it might not be a bad way to see if youre idea has potential.

First though, buy the best business books you can and read them, do your research and write up your business model.

End of rant I would love to know how it goes for you

Good stuff right there. I am a business administration major and have had one successful business go south on me. It is totally worth doing more research. I also belong to the Jaycees and they have many different ways to help out small businesses with forms and information. There is definitely a market for high end cutlery here, but I am not sure if the timing is right. With the economic downturn people may not have the disposable income to purchase these items right now. Best of luck on your new business venture!

 

[Jamboi]

Most of the advice is clear and I won't add to that. I would like to point out another stark fact: if you do not have other sources of income and your family depends on you, make sure you have plan B. Don't let your family starve for your love of knives. Unfair.

Also the current mentality seems to be: check out in the store and order it online. If the price is more than $50, definitely get it online, as amazon also offers free shipping. It means you will have more sale of gerbers and byrd, than benchmade/spyderco. And you will have 30 people fondle knives and only 3 maybe buying them from you. Time is very expensive, so you also need to work out if you are willing to accept this fact.

The only brick store here, on the pier is We Be Knives. I doubt if he ever sells his bm and spyderco, but I routinely see people walk out with tons of gerber wicked looking knives. You also may want to check with a few friendly folk on bf who own stores, about the stats on the brands that sell most in the store.

And good luck. It takes a lot of courage to even decide having a business, you are halfway there. A sound plan and plan B will help you fulfil your dream.

That is really my greatest concern, not being able to make enough to pay the bills. Scary thought, indeed. I almost need a therapist to help me see if it is that love of knives guiding me, or if this is a good idea. I agree with your analogy of check I out in the store and order it online. I have been very guilty of that one several times. I also think bladeforums and similar sites hurt store sales something awful. I have gotten some of the best deals imaginable on this site.

 

[richard thurman]

I totally agree that flea markets are not what they used to be. It is mainly a bunch of imported cheap crap around here. I am still really thinking about making a small investment in ZT and Ka-Bar/Becker knives and opening up a booth at a local one here. There is a large LE and Military population in this area and hopefully I could start with a small booth and work up to a store over time.



I am sorry to hear that and wish you the best. This business is something I am thinking can relax at for a while. I have had a back problem for about 15 years and in the last 2 weeks I fell through a deck with rotten boards and then through the sheetrock ceiling in a house we are restoring. Needless to say I ended up in the ER and have been in terrible pain since. I have decided this house is trying to kill me.



Good stuff right there. I am a business administration major and have had one successful business go south on me. It is totally worth doing more research. I also belong to the Jaycees and they have many different ways to help out small businesses with forms and information. There is definitely a market for high end cutlery here, but I am not sure if the timing is right. With the economic downturn people may not have the disposable income to purchase these items right now. Best of luck on your new business venture!

have you ever thought of selling them at the local gun and Knife shows?? I did that too and I was kicking butt. I only had 2 tables but my knifes where name brand and I sold them at a very good price so I had a lot of sales.

 

[Jamboi]

have you ever thought of selling them at the local gun and Knife shows?? I did that too and I was kicking butt. I only had 2 tables but my knifes where name brand and I sold them at a very good price so I had a lot of sales.

I have thought of it. I was so disappointed at the last one. I am curious about something. My personal favorite brands are ZT and Becker. I am trying to cater to LE, Military, and Emergency Services. I would think a good assortment of ZT, Ka-Bar/Becker, Benchmade, and spyderco would cover that. I was also thinking I would need some cool looking cheap knives for the kids and such. There is a large hunting crowd here as well, but I do not really know what I could carry to attract them.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

...I was also thinking I would need some cool looking cheap knives for the kids and such...

Great idea! When Wife had her crafting business, we made sure that we had "junk" that would appeal to the youth and those sales usually paid for our fees AND the kids drug their parents over who would then look at the higher priced stuff as well. Double edged sword.

But make sure that you know your local laws as they relate to minors & knives. In many places you cannot sell knives directly to the kids, you have to sell to the parents who can then give the knives to the kids. It would be a real pain to have some parent complain to the police...

...There is a large hunting crowd here as well, but I do not really know what I could carry to attract them.

Buck sells a lot of hunting knives (go to the Buck site, select knives and then select hunting and you will see what I mean), they are typically liked by the hunting crowd, and you can (IIRC) get dealer prices with a tax ID and a minimum $500 purchase.

Best of luck!

 

[jbmonkey]

lots of good thoughts already, but i was told this when i was younger and more inclined to try something before i knew if it could make money or not........if you love a hobby be careful doing it for a living. often the business side will kill the love of the hobby. i've seen it happen many, many times. something to think about, as everyone is different. not saying you can't love your job, you can, and many who are successful do, but still something to think about.

on to your area, if the big box stores stopped carrying them, and there is no other shops carrying them, that pretty much means there is no market there for nicer knives from store purchases. the internet has taken over allot of this stuff...i would seriously consider doing that along with your brick and mortar if you are that determined to do it. just a thought. good luck.

 

[Jamboi]

Great idea! When Wife had her crafting business, we made sure that we had "junk" that would appeal to the youth and those sales usually paid for our fees AND the kids drug their parents over who would then look at the higher priced stuff as well. Double edged sword.

But make sure that you know your local laws as they relate to minors & knives. In many places you cannot sell knives directly to the kids, you have to sell to the parents who can then give the knives to the kids. It would be a real pain to have some parent complain to the police...



Buck sells a lot of hunting knives (go to the Buck site, select knives and then select hunting and you will see what I mean), they are typically liked by the hunting crowd, and you can (IIRC) get dealer prices with a tax ID and a minimum $500 purchase.

Best of luck!

That is so true about junk for kids. I have taken my 4 year old to every show and have had to buy him some cheap plastic toy knife/gun/bow and arrow. It is always the same lady that sells they kids toys and she always has a crowd at her tables.

I do really need to read up on the laws before I order or sell anything. I have no clue about Mississippis knife laws. I know they have sold my oldest boy, 13 years old, several assisted knives, some throwing stars, and a cheap auto knife. With no questions asked. I hear knife shows and flea markets have different rules than a store would have.

 

[Jamboi]

lots of good thoughts already, but i was told this when i was younger and more inclined to try something before i knew if it could make money or not........if you love a hobby be careful doing it for a living. often the business side will kill the love of the hobby. i've seen it happen many, many times. something to think about, as everyone is different. not saying you can't love your job, you can, and many who are successful do, but still something to think about.

on to your area, if the big box stores stopped carrying them, and there is no other shops carrying them, that pretty much means there is no market there for nicer knives from store purchases. the internet has taken over allot of this stuff...i would seriously consider doing that along with your brick and mortar if you are that determined to do it. just a thought. good luck.

I was talking to a guy that owns a knife store in Al. about that same thing. According to him his love of knives has increased every day since he opened his store. He told me if anything he started buying, selling and trading his own personal stash of knives even more. My biggest problem at first is going to be making sure I dont try and keep any of the knives I am supposed to be selling. I will be like a kid in a candy store at first, and later it will turn into actual work I am sure. Oh, I need this ZT 566, and one of these Manix 2 s, and this Kershaw Cryo 2, and his Hinderer Xm....... heh heh

I will definitely think about doing online sales. I know everything has moved that way for the last 10 to 15 years.

 

[richard thurman]

I have thought of it. I was so disappointed at the last one. I am curious about something. My personal favorite brands are ZT and Becker. I am trying to cater to LE, Military, and Emergency Services. I would think a good assortment of ZT, Ka-Bar/Becker, Benchmade, and spyderco would cover that. I was also thinking I would need some cool looking cheap knives for the kids and such. There is a large hunting crowd here as well, but I do not really know what I could carry to attract them.

for the hunting crowed I say Mulea knifes. I did really good with them. no other dealer could find out where I was getting them from. real stag handles. here is some pictures of them. it would not let me put all of the pictures of them.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

for the hunting crowed I say Mulea knifes. I did really good with them. no other dealer could find out where I was getting them from. real stag handles. here is some pictures of them. it would not let me put all of the pictures of them.

I love Muela knives and own three with a few more on my wish list. Not sure how many people outside of the knife world know about them, but thy are a lot of knife for the money, IMHO. Good looks, decent construction, moderate price.

Good suggestion.

 

[Jamboi]

for the hunting crowed I say Mulea knifes. I did really good with them. no other dealer could find out where I was getting them from. real stag handles. here is some pictures of them. it would not let me put all of the pictures of them.

I have not ever heard of Mulea Knives. I will check them out. Thanks.

 

[Clem Kadiddlehopper]

Good stuff right there. I am a business administration major and have had one successful business go south on me. It is totally worth doing more research. I also belong to the Jaycees and they have many different ways to help out small businesses with forms and information. There is definitely a market for high end cutlery here, but I am not sure if the timing is right. With the economic downturn people may not have the disposable income to purchase these items right now. Best of luck on your new business venture!

I think you have aways to go before you are really ready, from what you have posted?
A very good thought out plan is going to be the key to succeeding and failing. Which I know you are trying to put together by asking questions here.

About 15 years ago I went into a knife store in north Fort Worth, Texas. It was probably the best and MOST thought out knife store I ever been in and it was in a mall.
I do not know if it is still open? But with the way they had it set up and the inventory he had, I would say it very well could still be open?
It was not a very big store but it had every type of sharp things in it you could want?
Not just knives.
He had scissors of kinds and sizes, nail clippers, razors, kitchen knives, throwing knives, axes and hatchets, swords even the cigar cutters. And not just a few of each, tons of stuff to choose from. And he had quality knives too, I think those were his bread and butter. This place was bad a$$....... Like on his kitchen knives - he had cheap ones and he had more expensive sets. The clippers you could by one or he had the grooming kits to choose from. The lighting and display was superb - very clean. And with all he had in there, it didn't seem cluttered up. Didn't ask him, but he probably had lawn mower blades under the counter.....

And I know he did a heck of a business - rent in any mall is not cheap.
In my mind a store like this could be very successful - Why?
Because most your people out there do not have a clue to knives as we know them.
They just look at the knife for what they need it for and then how much is it?

If it's still there? You should take a road trip? It would be very well worth it.....
I can't remember the name of it? It was like "Everything Sharp"? or "Sharp Spot"?
The owner was an Asian fellow, very nice guy. I bought a small folder from him that I gave to my brother for his Birthday.

Good luck with your store and keep us posted if you open one up? I may have to come down and see you......

 

[midnight flyer]

I have opened 4 businesses in the last 40 years, including the one I have now. Unless you have the many, many thousands of dollars to burn through while you learn all your lessons the hard way, you really should talk to a business consultant, and accountant, and someone that really understands retail sales. As the owner, you will be responsible for every last detail and for every decision made on behalf of your company.

Ask yourself a few things.

Do you have enough money in the banks to survive a couple of years until the business takes off and can support itself? This is money that EXCLUDES your rented space cost, a part time employee, etc.

Do you know how much money you will really need to start up? How much will your finish out of the space cost? How much will your rent be (remember, most cost effective leases are three year minimum) and will it be subject to change? How much will signage be for your space? Phone (two lines)? Insurance on your goods and contents (required by landlord)? Will you participate in the utility costs or raises in state/local taxes (probably)? Do you have a cash register? Are you set up to accept credit cards, or as is usual in a b/m setting, will you need to get a machine with a dedicated line for vendor access? Do you own your own point of sale software and gear?

Do you understand advance accounting procedures (and software) so you can set up your business books correctly or will you need to hire a professional to keep your books, mind your quarterly reports, keep track of your sales tax, pay your sales tax, and make your quarterly deposits? Have you managed the required state and federal employee accounts for social security, unemployment, etc.? Are you familiar with their reporting requirements? Do you have enough money set aside for all your tax reports and income tax for your company? Do you have enough money set aside for a State Comptroller's visit and audit? (Selling from a dedicated site is much different than selling off a table at a flea market...!! The Comptroller's Office will find you!)

What would be the size of your monthly nut? Your "nut" is all conceivable costs you will incur. So say, $1000 for rent, $100 for insurance, $300 for utilities, part time guy (you can't live there or close your store every time something comes up) $250 a week (cheap!), $300 for bookkeeping and accounting fees (including all reports and tax filing) advertising $100 (that's really cheap, but folks need to know you are there so that should be a minimum), internet for access to clients and vice versa $50, lease payment on office equipment including desk, chair, computer, store fixtures, printer, etc. $200 (store fixtures alone would probably be that) and about $250 a month for all the little stuff like postage, shipping envelopes and packages, and all the unexpected costs. So say a bare bones operation, about $2500 monthly cash to keep it afloat.

Remember, we aren't paying you, yet. And when you are paid from the business, you need to remember that you pay both sides of your social security as you will be matching your own.

So how many knives would you have to sell to crack your $2500 nut? Say you made about $25 bucks on a knife you sell for $100. You would have to sell 100 of those knives a month! If you sold less expensive slipjoints, or didn't get that kind of markup, you would be behind the curve. One dealer I know told me he makes about 15 - 20 percent a knife on most of his inventory, sometimes more depending on the manufacturer. He has sold knives long enough now that his most profitable knives he buys directly, but some knives he has to buy through a distributor. When he started out, he bought all his knives through a distributor as all the manufacturers had a $500 to a $1000 minimum buy. Think about it; even at a grand, that $1000 would probably only buy about 10 GEC knives, maybe one or two more depending on the model.

So after finding out what your market would request, how many of those knives would you sell?

Then think of all the startup costs... Deposits for leases, inventory purchasing (I assume you would want a few hundred knives to start - looking at a hundred knives only takes a very few minutes for me) of knives from several manufacturers, permits, sales licenses, legal fees for your business designation (LLP, LLC, etc.) as you don't want to be personally sued if someone cuts themselves, insurance deposits for coverage in case they do, business cards and invoices (make your stationery on the computer - everyone else does) and on and on and on...

And keep in mind, about 50% of all retail businesses fail in the first year, and by year 5, about 90% have gone under.

Oh yeah... if you want to pay yourself something to live on or feed your family, you need to add the appropriate amount of sales to the bottom line to cover a salary or wage of the right amount to keep you and your family afloat. Say, double the amount of knives you were thinking before. That might get you to even on the money if you were able to do that every single month, but you still wouldn't be ahead.

Good luck, and Godspeed if you decided to jump on this. I have done a fair amount of consulting in my time for other businesses, and in this economic climate I personally wouldn't do it with someone else's money, much less my own.

Robert

 

[richard thurman]

I have not ever heard of Mulea Knives. I will check them out. Thanks.

I Believe they are part of the fury knife company.

 

[Jamboi]

Wow, these last few comments have really got me thinking. I really had to sit down with my wife and talk about this. It is true this is just the preplanning stage for me. There is now doubt I know a lot about knives and have the ability to manage a business. I used Quickbooks for several years so I could go that route for a POS system. My wife is also pushing me toward this business as well. She thinks I would be great at it. There is just this huge wall in my mind on weather I would make enough income to pay the bills and hopefully grow my business. That is the road block for me.

First, the whole business is dependent on selling a house I inherited when my mother passed last year. RIP MoM. The house needs a lot of work so I was thinking it would be this winter I or spring before we could list it.

Secondly, I sat down with my wife and she is dreaming of going back to school and getting another degree somshe fan be a family Nurse Practioner. (Sp?) Therefore my income from sales would have to be a minimum of $2, 000 a month, until she goes back to work. Ideally, $4, 000 would be perfect. That seems like a real s t r e t c h. Depending on the various markups I am figuring I would have to sell 100 to 200 knives a month to stay afloat.

Thirdly, there is a kink in the whole plan. I just found out my back is really messed up. It is causing me all kind of pain and nothing is easy to do, or even think about anymore. My future business plans, actually all our future plans, are dependent on how this turns out.

I really would like to thank y'all for your input. It has got me to sit down and put some things down on paper that I had not even considered. Even found some new knives I never knew about. If this does work out I will gladly invite you down to the store and there will be free ice cream for everybody! I am seriously thinking about selling Blue Bell icream in the store, for the kids of course.

"I will take that Becker 10 and 2 scoops of birthday cake ice cream in a waffle cone." ROFL!

 

[richard thurman]

I love Muela knives and own three with a few more on my wish list. Not sure how many people outside of the knife world know about them, but thy are a lot of knife for the money, IMHO. Good looks, decent construction, moderate price.

Good suggestion.

which ones are on your wish list??