Three Most Important Survival Items

[akennedy73]

Surely I'm not the only one on this forum who's done this. Anyone else want to chime in here?

where I grew up there was a lot of chert and we'd bang it together to make a spark - just for fun. we'd use other stuff too - flint and quartz like you mentioned.

although i'm sure it's possible to start a fire with any spark, the sparks i've created with rocks are pretty wimpy and i'm not sure i could start a fire with them. in fact i'm pretty sure i couldn't. at not least without some gasoline or gunpowder

 

[dawsonbob]

Dawsonbob... you can get many rocks to spark by hitting them together. Anything with quartsite is excellent. However it is a different kind of spark caused by the compression and I believe its electrical (but i'm not sure, exactly) These types of sparks don't burn like iron shards and can't transfer heat to you tinder. Perhaps you are located in an iron pyrite rich area. But hitting two pieces of quartz together won't light your fire.

I won't even begin to talk about the kind of tinder prep you need for that. What kind of tinder are you using, anyway?

Sorry if I'm coming off like a prick... but I'm very interested in your method... if not to rub it in Bow's nose... he he

Rick

Rick, I'm sure that there is pyrite around here (San Diego), but I've never found a big chunk of it. On the other hand, there's lots of various quartzite type rocks here, many of which may contain pyrite. I don't know for sure, since I'm not really a rock guy. I just wander around and find different types of rocks and bang them together to see what happens. Sometimes nothing happens at all. Other times it will flake off into a blade of one sort or another, but sometimes they'll produce a pretty good spark. I think the effect you're thinking of is a piezoelectric spark: you know, the exact same one that's used in many butane lighters.

You're right: two stones don't throw the exact same kind of spark as flint and steel, but sometimes they throw one just as good. Maybe there's iron in some of the stones: I don't know. I do know, however, that sparks come off that last long enough to light tinder. Maybe it hasn't worked for you yet, but it does work. People have been using this method for thousands of years. Yes, flint and steel are more consistently reliable, but don't give up on the stones: they do work — I know; I've done it myself (not in many years though).

As far as tinder, I used cattail fluff if I remember correctly, but I'm sure other tinder would work as well, if not better.

Now you've got me wanting to get out and do it again. Unfortunately, the truck has a blown head gasket, so I'm not going anywhere for awhile. If I ever find the money to get it fixed though, I'll be out banging rocks for you. I don't have a video camera, so you'll have to settle for stills.

You're not coming off as a pr**k, just as a pushy bastid.

 

[tholiver]

http://www.grandpappy.info/wthree.htm

What would your three items be?

Really interesting article but this quote from the article
"Do not buy a Swiss Army Knife. If you want a "tool knife" then I suggest you consider the "Leatherman Wave Multi-Tool" got my my dander up a little.lol!
I'd take a good SAK Farmer or Huntsman over the pictured Winchester folder any day.
What exactly is the reason for the anti-SAK slant?
Or is it a anti-slipjoint slant?
Or is it an anti-import slant?
(In that case isn't that Winchester folder imported from China?)
Maybe he wants only folders/multi's that lock? Hmmmm.....
Other than that its a cool article!
:thumbup:

 

[Rick Marchand]

I think the effect you're thinking of is a piezoelectric spark: you know, the exact same one that's used in many butane lighters.

That's it... works for lighting vapour not solids... it is focused from the crystals into an arch. A static electrical spark is stronger than a piezoelectric... can you light tinder from a static charge?

You're right: two stones don't throw the exact same kind of spark as flint and steel, but sometimes they throw one just as good..... People have been using this method for thousands of years. Yes, flint and steel are more consistently reliable, but don't give up on the stones: they do work — I know; I've done it myself (not in many years though).

As far as tinder, I used cattail fluff if I remember correctly, but I'm sure other tinder would work as well, if not better.

Show me one piece of historical evidence that people used piezoelectric spark to light fire. The Otzi (Iceman) had flint and pyrite. How are you preping you cattail down to accept a spark, even from flint and steel?

You're not coming off as a pr**k, just as a pushy bastid.

Well I'm glad... because that isn't my intention... what you are saying goes against what I've learned, so I would just like to follow it up.

Rick

 

[Rotte]

Rick has hit on the key to the whole fire issue: tinder. Trying to get fire going with a flint and steel is a bitch without char cloth (in my fairly limited experience). Even with a ferrorod, tinder has to be prepped carefully in my experience. Maybe you guys have better luck, but I can't just step up to a pile of wood shavings and spark them into fire.

With a Bic however...I can light pineneedles, leaves, grass, punk wood, or small twigs and get a fire going in no time.

Most of the firemaking threads I see here a W&SS involve some tinder (commercial, PJCB, Jute, charcloth, etc). There are only a few guys I've seen start a fire without said stuff. And none of them said it was easy.

I'd like to see someone start a fire with a ferrorod, but no knife or striker or tinder. OK, contest time.....

 

[fishshooter]

No tinder at all? Not even natural stuff?

 

[Rotte]

No tinder at all? Not even natural stuff?

Commercial or ready made tinder. I'm sure it can be done, and I'm going to try to do it myself (never tried before). But I'm going to start a contest thread for this idea.

 

[fishshooter]

Cool. I know I can, but I need at least a SAK.

 

[dawsonbob]

That's it... works for lighting vapour not solids... it is focused from the crystals into an arch. A static electrical spark is stronger than a piezoelectric... can you light tinder from a static charge?

Show me one piece of historical evidence that people used piezoelectric spark to light fire. The Otzi (Iceman) had flint and pyrite. How are you preping you cattail down to accept a spark, even from flint and steel?

Well I'm glad... because that isn't my intention... what you are saying goes against what I've learned, so I would just like to follow it up.

Rick

You're right, Rick, piezoelectric is different than striking sparks off a rock, and I shouldn't have used that as an example. Striking sparks off a rock sends small pieces of hot, burning material into the tinder. What kind of material, I don't know, but I think it's more akin to the hot iron that comes off flint and steel than to an electric spark.

The Iceman had flint and pyrite, which will generate a spark when struck together. A real spark, not electrical.

The cattail fluff (I think that is what I used: it's probably been twenty-five or thirty years since I last did it) was probably just plain old really dry cattail fluff crumbled between my hands. In any event, it took a spark without any problem. I'm sure that many other things would take a spark as well, if not better.

Since I can't go anywhere right now, I'll go online and research this a bit more. I'm sure that there must be a lot of information out there somewhere. I'll see what I can find.

 

[Rotte]

Fire making contest.

game on.

 

[dawsonbob]

Rick has hit on the key to the whole fire issue: tinder. Trying to get fire going with a flint and steel is a bitch without char cloth (in my fairly limited experience). Even with a ferrorod, tinder has to be prepped carefully in my experience. Maybe you guys have better luck, but I can't just step up to a pile of wood shavings and spark them into fire.

With a Bic however...I can light pineneedles, leaves, grass, punk wood, or small twigs and get a fire going in no time.

Most of the firemaking threads I see here a W&SS involve some tinder (commercial, PJCB, Jute, charcloth, etc). There are only a few guys I've seen start a fire without said stuff. And none of them said it was easy.

I'd like to see someone start a fire with a ferrorod, but no knife or striker or tinder. OK, contest time.....

Okay, Rotte, I'm in... if I understand you correctly. What you're saying, I think, is start a fire with a fire steel without using any steel such as a knife or steel striker. Piece of cake: a rock broken to expose a sharp edge works just fine for throwing sparks: it's the sharp edge that makes it work. When I first mentioned this, Storl gave it a try and, sure enough, it works. He was going to make a video, but I don't know if he ever did.

You're second requirement is to not use any man-made material as tinder. Do I have that right? Am I correct in assuming that natural tinder, such as dry grass is okay, or did you mean no tinder at all? Obviously, there has to be a tinder of some kind. I don't think any of us can light a log directly with a fire steel.

 

[dawsonbob]

Just saw your instructions in the new thread you started. I'll see if I can get some pics tomorrow. I've done exactly this a number of times, so I know how to go about it.

 

[lk3331]

1. knife
2. lighter
3.depending on the area a pot or a tarp

 

[Mistwalker]

To add a discussion point, I must admit that I'm suprised at the lack of first aid kits in most peoples responses.

Why is this the case?




Kind regards
Mick

Because we don't spend so much time hurting ourselves trying to avoid the browns, funnel webs, and all those other deadly things you have over there

 

[Mistwalker]

Commercial or ready made tinder. I'm sure it can be done, and I'm going to try to do it myself (never tried before). But I'm going to start a contest thread for this idea.

Great, now I'm gonna be out in the back yard tomorrow with a ferro rod, a hunk of fatwood and a hunk of chert.....

 

[Rotte]

That's the idea...

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Brian

Because we don't spend so much time hurting ourselves trying to avoid the browns, funnel webs, and all those other deadly things you have over there

:thumbup:



Kind regards
Mick

 

[Mistwalker]

That's the idea...

Yeah, that's what I thought

G'day Brian



:thumbup:



Kind regards
Mick

Hullo Mick,

Well...it's true

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Brian

Hullo Mick,

Well...it's true

I know its true :thumbup:.

Over here, a FAK really can mean the difference between life & death. A decent bite from a brown snake can kill you inside of 10 minutes, whereas the funnell web takes a bit longer at 1/2 hour



Kind regards
Mick

 

[HikingMano]

Over here, a FAK really can mean the difference between life & death. A decent bite from a brown snake can kill you inside of 10 minutes, whereas the funnell web takes a bit longer at 1/2 hour

Wow, yeah, forgot all about your environment. What do you carry in your FAK for the poisonous nasties, Mick? Pressure bandages for keeping the venom at the bite site until you get antivenin?