Three Most Important Survival Items

[HikingMano]

To add a discussion point, I must admit that I'm suprised at the lack of first aid kits in most peoples responses.

Why is this the case?

As for why not a FAK... when you NEED one you NEED one, but how many have actually needed a FAK for anything serious? Granted I would never be without it, but for immediate life-threating blood loss a bit of rag is just as good, and even with proper training, you're gonna get septic and need IV antibiotics. I'm of the opinion that FAK in the wilderness are more for minor emergencies than things that will kill you in 20 mins, especially with no one to help. That said, always carry a FAK.

Chris

hey Mick, I can't speak for anyone else, but, most FAK's (as compared to comprehensive medical kits) include bandaids, some pain pills, toothache drops, etc., usually nothing that would make a difference between life and death, at least in the short term (remember I'm generalizing). OTOH, shelter, water and fire can definitely be life and death considerations both in the short term and long term, more so in some environments than in others.

Hey Mick

There are things in my FAK that would quite possibly determine a good or bad outcome (Loperamide, medicine to reduce fever, and povidone-iodine solution for wound irrigation for example), but in general first aid comes lower on the necessity hierarchy for me. Like Chris and Doc, I think most things carried in my woods FAK are first response items that will tie me over until I can get proper medical treatment (within 3 days in the typical scenario). They aren't things that will save me if I incur a life-threatening injury for which I cannot improvise a treatment (tourniquet, boiled water for wound irrigation as you let it heal out, boiled rags for improvised dressing, boil your water before you drink it to prevent waterborne illness, fashion wood splints for broken bones, etc).

On the other hand, as Cody Lundin frames it, I aim to keep my body temp at 98.6 degrees until someone finds me or I can make it out...even more so if injured. So I place protection from exposure, safe drinking water, and fire for thermoregulation and signaling all higher than first aid. Signaling would be even more important if I was seriously injured, as any serious injury would prevent me from physically making it out on my own or prevent me from retaining the presence of mind needed to get myself out.

I definitely carry a FAK in my pack though, even on short dayhikes :thumbup: I actually tend to carry too much in it I think...reminds me to start a thread on it sometime soon.

Russell

As far as my choices go, I would have like to see 4 rather than 3, but since we were limited, I based my choices on which necessary items would be the most difficult for me to reproduce.

A water proof shelter with natural materials is certainly doable, but can take a lot of time, not a good idea if you're trying to hike out and have to remake one every night, so a tarp is a god send. In some conditions, getting wet could be a death sentence. So, a tarp is my first choice (not in any order of importance).

Sanitized water, being a fairly immediate necessity, must be both available and be able to be carried. Once again, doable, but not easily, at least for me, so the Guyot is #2.

As far as the knife goes, I can find some substitutes, but nothing is going to come close to a large blade, for shelter, firewood, defense, not to mention piece of mind, and for all the smaller jobs like tool and trap building, so a machete or Khukuri, actually my Machax would be the third one.

#4 would be a monster ferro rod or a case of Bic lighters!

Great post Doc :thumbup:. I like how you underlined "me". I know you are quite the expert at friction fire, so you are confident in having a Tarp, Guyot, and Knife as your top three. In my case, I haven't yet made fire by friction, and would be more willing to improvise a waterproof shelter from natural materials than a fire at this point in my life. So for me, the Knife, Guyot, and Firesteel are top three.

I'd also go with the firesteel over the lighter because although the accepted time-frame for a survival scenario is 3 days, I'd want to be able to make fires for a lot longer than that. I would guess you would be able to light more fires with a firesteel than with a lighter when the fuel runs out. Even if you manage to use the lighter flint for sparks after the fuel runs out (the sparks don't seem to be that hot, my guess is it'd take more effort or really good tinder to get a fire going).

If I were allowed a fourth, I would take my heavy duty space blanket/tarp. :thumbup: While I place the other items above it, a good tarp and cordage would really save time, Calories, and stack odds in your favor.



ETA: One more thing I forgot about the FAK discussion, I have this idea that the injured scenario happens less frequently than the lost scenario...another reason why my choices are geared towards Shelter, Water, Fire, Signaling. I believe that it is more likely you'll have to fight exposure than deal with an injury. But I realize I don't actually know if this is true statistically. Are most "survival" situations people who are lost, or people who are injured and are unable to make it back?

 

[Echo4v]

Jim Beckworth never used a Bic. And I bet he wouldn't need a knife to survive. He was a pretty amazing character.

As to starting a fire without a knife, I would be willing to bet that most of the fires I've started in the woods have been with one match or a lighter and never required the use of a knife. I tend to spare the edge of my knife and don't use it without purpose. So my fires usually get started without a knife or axe. Careful preparation is the key.

I think I would need a knife to start a fire with a ferro rod, but even there, I bet it could be done.

I know we all love our blades here, but we probably over estimate the actual importance of a knife in a survival situation. I've spent a week in the woods without ever using my knife. So a reliable means of fire starting and water collecting is probably more important in my opinion.

Not that you'd ever find me in the woods without a knife.

Rotte,

Most of those old mountain men were pretty amazing characters but I'd say Jim was a "man among men" for sure. I'm sure he didn't use a bic but they had "advanced firestarting methods" even in his day. One method I've thought about but haven't had the chance to try was wrapping a hardwood coal in moss or leaves (or some similar material) and stuffing it into a buffalo horn. If done right at the end of the day you would have a coal with a layer of ashes around it and could just blow your fire back to life.

Just curious, on the fires you've started without a knife, what kind of tender did you use? How long did it take you?

As far as needing a knife to use a ferro rod, you don't. I can't remember if it was this forum or another but a member demonstrated that a ferro rod could be scraped with a rock to start a fire. Likewise, if you have a good peice of steel you don't need flint you can strike it on several kinds of rocks as long as you can get a sharp edge on the rock to strike the steel.

I personally don't think the importance of a knife in any situation ( especially survival) could be over estimated. It is the tool to make tools, the tool to aquire and prepare food, to make kindling from sticks and shelter from nature.


David

 

[Rick Marchand]

Wow this is a huge thread...

I'll state my big three and start reading back at the begining


Knife
Cookpot
Tarp

 

[dawsonbob]

Rotte,

Most of those old mountain men were pretty amazing characters but I'd say Jim was a "man among men" for sure. I'm sure he didn't use a bic but they had "advanced firestarting methods" even in his day. One method I've thought about but haven't had the chance to try was wrapping a hardwood coal in moss or leaves (or some similar material) and stuffing it into a buffalo horn. If done right at the end of the day you would have a coal with a layer of ashes around it and could just blow your fire back to life.

Just curious, on the fires you've started without a knife, what kind of tender did you use? How long did it take you?

As far as needing a knife to use a ferro rod, you don't. I can't remember if it was this forum or another but a member demonstrated that a ferro rod could be scraped with a rock to start a fire. Likewise, if you have a good peice of steel you don't need flint you can strike it on several kinds of rocks as long as you can get a sharp edge on the rock to strike the steel.

I personally don't think the importance of a knife in any situation ( especially survival) could be over estimated. It is the tool to make tools, the tool to aquire and prepare food, to make kindling from sticks and shelter from nature.


David

Excellent post. BTW, I may have been the one to mention that a fire steel works just as well with a sharp rock. If you don't have a fire steel (and why wouldn't you) you can get good sparks by striking a softer rock with a harder one. Takes some experimenting to find the right rocks, but once you do, it works very well.

 

[udtjim]

After more thinking on this, I believe the Tarp, first aid kit and kettle. I have been in survival situations in the woods/forest before. I did have a knife and I did use it, however I could have done fine without a knife as well. I would never depend on a firesteel as a only source of fire and would be about my fourth option for fire starting. I have a fire starting kit in with my first aid kit.

 

[Ramm9]

After more thinking on this, I believe the Tarp, first aid kit and kettle.

Ok, in the spirit of the thread take one item out of your first aid kit and what will you have along with your tarp and kettle?


Oh, and I would be sure to have a firesteel and knife in the kit and put it in a good sized kettle.

 

[KuRUpTD]

Another thing about lighters, as opposed to a firesteel, is that they can break or just stop working correctly at any time. Something else to consider is that if you do end up in the given scenario you would have to ALREADY have these items on your person.

Does anyone wear any type of survival necklace ?

 

[Rick Marchand]

Excellent post. BTW, I may have been the one to mention that a fire steel works just as well with a sharp rock. If you don't have a fire steel (and why wouldn't you) you can get good sparks by striking a softer rock with a harder one. Takes some experimenting to find the right rocks, but once you do, it works very well.

Please-please-please show me this method. I will Paypal you $50 if it works.

 

[DEXIX_five-oh]

Please-please-please show me this method. I will Paypal you $50 if it works.

sounds like you've maybe tried it once or twice

 

[batosai117]

Please-please-please show me this method. I will Paypal you $50 if it works.

Then we'll all go hit charcoal and try to make diamonds

Sorry, I couldn't help that one

 

[dawsonbob]

Please-please-please show me this method. I will Paypal you $50 if it works.

Hey, Rick, I'll go you one better: I'll give you two links that show fire starting using stones. These are free, of course (you don't need to PP me the $50).

When I was a kid I went out with one of my dad's friends who showed me how to strike a spark from the back edge of a knife and a stone, and then showed me how to use two stones to strike a spark. This method rocks (pun intended).

I've used two stones many time over the years to strike sparks. I'll be out in the bush somewhere, with too much time on my hands, and I'll start picking up different rocks and banging them together. Some work, some don't, but you just have to keep experimenting. Doesn't cost you a dime, and you can have a little fun. After awhile you start to recognize which kind of rocks will work, and it becomes a lot easier.

Here are two links:

http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/twostones/abbww/index.html

http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/flintandsteel/abbknifeandstone/

Let us all know how your experiments go.

 

[DEXIX_five-oh]

Hey, Rick, I'll go you one better: I'll give you two links that show fire starting using stones. These are free, of course (you don't need to PP me the $50).

When I was a kid I went out with one of my dad's friends who showed me how to strike a spark from the back edge of a knife and a stone, and then showed me how to use two stones to strike a spark. This method rocks (pun intended).

I've used two stones many time over the years to strike sparks. I'll be out in the bush somewhere, with too much time on my hands, and I'll start picking up different rocks and banging them together. Some work, some don't, but you just have to keep experimenting. Doesn't cost you a dime, and you can have a little fun. After awhile you start to recognize which kind of rocks will work, and it becomes a lot easier.

Here are two links:

http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/twostones/abbww/index.html

http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/flintandsteel/abbknifeandstone/

Let us all know how your experiments go.

Whoa i thought we were all kidding here......

well damn, you learn something new every day. Thanks!

 

[Rick Marchand]

Somehow I knew those links would come up... excellent!

I'm not denying that the two stone fire works. Folks have been doing it for centuries. I have done it myself. But it is far more complicated that two stones of different hardnes being hit together. If you have found the way to make it all fit together I am impressed. Bow leaves a few key ingredients out of his article, on purpose. How do I know this? Because I am currently apprenticing under Allan "Bow" Beauchamp (the dude in the links) I have been working with him for 4 yrs now and he never ceases to amaze me. He does not give answers freely... you have to earn them.... and if you did just that, sir... you have my admiration. But please don't make it out to be as simple as smacking rocks together. Iron Pyrite is the magic ingredient here... without it, this technique will not work.... and it is VERY hard to come by. The other stones are flint or flint substitutes.

I would still love to see a working set... :thumbup:

Rick

 

[DOC-CANADA]

rksoon: Even if you manage to use the lighter flint for sparks after the fuel runs out (the sparks don't seem to be that hot, my guess is it'd take more effort or really good tinder to get a fire going).

Hey Russel,

The pappus (fuzz) from Milkweed (Asclepias spp.) and Thistle (Cirsium spp.) work very well with a fuel-deficient Bic and I suspect other plants as well.

I think you've seen my modified lantern lighter that uses lighter flints? It will light up any tinder that a ferro rod will.

Doc

 

[dawsonbob]

I'm not denying that the two stone fire works. Folks have been doing it for centuries. I have done it myself. But it is far more complicated that two stones of different hardnes being hit together. If you have found the way to make it all fit together I am impressed. Bow leaves a few key ingredients out of his article, on purpose. How do I know this? Because I am currently apprenticing under Allan "Bow" Beauchamp (the dude in the links) I have been working with him for 4 yrs now and he never ceases to amaze me. He does not give answers freely... you have to earn them.... and if you did just that, sir... you have my admiration. But please don't make it out to be as simple as smacking rocks together. Iron Pyrite is the magic ingredient here... without it, this technique will not work.... and it it VERY hard to come by. The other stones are flint or flint substitutes.

I would still love to see a working set... :thumbup:

Rick

I believe I said that you have to experiment and find the right stones. It's sure as hell not easy the first few times, but you get the hang of it after awhile.

Yeah, pyrite is supposed to work pretty well. I wouldn't know, because I've never used it myself. Almost any of the chalcedony rocks (flint, chert, etc.) will work, as will almost any quartzite stone. Yep, some granite and basalt will work, too. What I do is break a rock on another rock to get a sharp edge, and strike that on another rock. Ya just gotta keep banging different rock together until you fine a combination that works.

Surely I'm not the only one on this forum who's done this. Anyone else want to chime in here?

 

[Liam Ryan]

You can recognize the iron pyrite because it will rust like all iron, look for reddish hues.

 

[August West]

I would love to see an all natural rock banging fire or even a video of it being done.

I have used traditional flint and steel and have never caught a spark with anything but char cloth. Still looking for my first tinder fungus which I hear will catch a cold spark, no natural tender I have tried worked and believe me I have bloodied my knuckles lots trying. Chris

 

[HikingMano]

Hey Russel,

The pappus (fuzz) from Milkweed (Asclepias spp.) and Thistle (Cirsium spp.) work very well with a fuel-deficient Bic and I suspect other plants as well.

I think you've seen my modified lantern lighter that uses lighter flints? It will light up any tinder that a ferro rod will.

Doc

Thanks Doc, will look to see if they're in my area. And I do remember seeing your modified lantern lighters, but don't remember the specifics, will dig it up :thumbup:

 

[udtjim]

My firesteel works much better with the striker that came with it than it does with any knife. Why would I take one thing out of my first aid kit? I would stick the first aid kit in the kettle and fold it up in the trap for a pack

I have started quite a few fires with a fire steel. I have also had times when I was to cold and shaky to even think of getting a fire started with one.

It is hard to imagine a possibility like this anyway because if I have my pants on, I have at least one knife. If I didn't have my pants on, that would be the first thing on my list.

There are four knives in this pair of pants. You can't see the Sak that is in the watch pocket or the folder in the right front pocket.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Dawsonbob... you can get many rocks to spark by hitting them together. Anything with quartsite is excellent. However it is a different kind of spark caused by the compression and I believe its electrical (but i'm not sure, exactly) These types of sparks don't burn like iron shards and can't transfer heat to you tinder. Perhaps you are located in an iron pyrite rich area. But hitting two pieces of quartz together won't light your fire.

I won't even begin to talk about the kind of tinder prep you need for that. What kind of tinder are you using, anyway?

Sorry if I'm coming off like a prick... but I'm very interested in your method... if not to rub it in Bow's nose... he he

Rick