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Throwing out a question.
- Thread starter miguet
- Start date
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
People get really suspicious when they see someone selling dozens/hundreds of knives. This will not necessarily get you banned for being a dealer without a membership. If there is proof that you are buying or trading for knives and in every case you are selling them for a profit, you will be banned. If there is no such proof then I have seen at least one member (Jaxurman) sell huge amounts of knives and never get banned for it.
The members here are pretty savvy, so I think they would pick up on it in no time.
The members here are pretty savvy, so I think they would pick up on it in no time.
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 77,353
This is the right forum; if you crossposted on other forums I'll have to move the threads here.
Just about everybody in the knife industry is involved with Bladeforums; it would be pretty difficult to buy wholesale without us finding out about it.
As for buying from collectors and selling for more than you paid, of course collectors do that from time to time, but doing enough of it to make a living at it would be pretty difficult to keep secret, too.
If you have reason to believe there's a stealth dealer on the forums please tell us what you know and we'll look into it.
If you look back at the old threads you'll see Jaxurman was about to get banned when he suddenly stopped posting. According to usually reliable sources he went to jail.
Just about everybody in the knife industry is involved with Bladeforums; it would be pretty difficult to buy wholesale without us finding out about it.
As for buying from collectors and selling for more than you paid, of course collectors do that from time to time, but doing enough of it to make a living at it would be pretty difficult to keep secret, too.
If you have reason to believe there's a stealth dealer on the forums please tell us what you know and we'll look into it.
If you look back at the old threads you'll see Jaxurman was about to get banned when he suddenly stopped posting. According to usually reliable sources he went to jail.
Let me start out by saying that Capt. Mike and I have done numerous deals in the past and he is as kind and fair a person as there is, ANYWHERE! I also want to qualify myself in saying that I've been a knife "accumulator" for over 25 years and a charter member of BF. I've bought knives purely for enjoyment and not for any collector status. My passion for knives in the past, (and sometimes now), borders on the surreal!
I have always purchased knives when my salary justified the purchases, though I was tempted many times to overide my budget! My favorite thing in all the world was attending knife shows buying knives or ordering them through catalogs.
All of this was BEFORE I quit my job of 25 years, (after a terrible divorce), and moved up here to a very rural area. I left the security of a high paying job to live in an uncrowded area but with no job potentials. I landed a decent job after arrival here but it didn't last too long, (as jobs here don't). I've tried hard to maintain a good standard of living but it's been tough and that includes jobs where I've broken my back and spirit, (literally!).
I'm sorry for the long diatribe and the "boo-hoo's" but what I'm trying to say is YES, I'm SOMEWHAT guilty as charged in what Mike has brought up. After my last job went south, I've supplemented my income in the selling of my accumulated knives of 25 years on this and other forums. I'm also guilty of looking for knives that were listed on the forums that were for sale at a good price and reselling them for a small profit, (though this has been pretty RARE!). I've also sold MANY knives, (like we all do), at a GREAT LOSS!
I don't think there's any way to monitor what a forumites' intentions are, as far as buying and selling. If his name crops up over and over in a very short time, in a non-dealer forum, then MAYBE a moderator MIGHT want to question him. As an example, I had no problem with the above named "Jaxurman" UNTIL I found out he DEMANDED a favorable report in "The Good, Bad And Ugly" forum before he sold a knife. I couldn't BELIEVE though how many folks went for it when he did! I think the internet would be a lousy place to hang if there were "secret police" watching our every move!
In conclusion, I want to say I AM NOT dealer or NEVER have been! My joy has always been in accumulating knives for my own enjoyment.
I have always purchased knives when my salary justified the purchases, though I was tempted many times to overide my budget! My favorite thing in all the world was attending knife shows buying knives or ordering them through catalogs.
All of this was BEFORE I quit my job of 25 years, (after a terrible divorce), and moved up here to a very rural area. I left the security of a high paying job to live in an uncrowded area but with no job potentials. I landed a decent job after arrival here but it didn't last too long, (as jobs here don't). I've tried hard to maintain a good standard of living but it's been tough and that includes jobs where I've broken my back and spirit, (literally!).
I'm sorry for the long diatribe and the "boo-hoo's" but what I'm trying to say is YES, I'm SOMEWHAT guilty as charged in what Mike has brought up. After my last job went south, I've supplemented my income in the selling of my accumulated knives of 25 years on this and other forums. I'm also guilty of looking for knives that were listed on the forums that were for sale at a good price and reselling them for a small profit, (though this has been pretty RARE!). I've also sold MANY knives, (like we all do), at a GREAT LOSS!
I don't think there's any way to monitor what a forumites' intentions are, as far as buying and selling. If his name crops up over and over in a very short time, in a non-dealer forum, then MAYBE a moderator MIGHT want to question him. As an example, I had no problem with the above named "Jaxurman" UNTIL I found out he DEMANDED a favorable report in "The Good, Bad And Ugly" forum before he sold a knife. I couldn't BELIEVE though how many folks went for it when he did! I think the internet would be a lousy place to hang if there were "secret police" watching our every move!
In conclusion, I want to say I AM NOT dealer or NEVER have been! My joy has always been in accumulating knives for my own enjoyment.
As a moderator in that area of the forums, I'd like some more information.
Who are you referring to, miguet?
Where are these threads you mention?
How is Gene involved?
You can email me if you wish, but I'd prefer the links & info posted here, as it seems Gene may be the guilty party.
Also, who is 'Captain Mike'?
Lets get to the bottom of this , so we can make an official determination.
Who are you referring to, miguet?
Where are these threads you mention?
How is Gene involved?
You can email me if you wish, but I'd prefer the links & info posted here, as it seems Gene may be the guilty party.
Also, who is 'Captain Mike'?
Lets get to the bottom of this , so we can make an official determination.
My questions were for discussion purposes and not to incriminate anyone. I personally know of no one who is attempting to do this.
A previously discussed topic was whether a couple of forumites (jaxurman being one of them) were hobbyists or people attempting to operate a business on the non-dealer "for sale" forums. My own observations are that "used" knife values are extremely well defined and market forces (forumites and moderators)so attuned to valuation - that it would be highly improbable that a non-dealer forumite could run a financially successful buy/sell knife business on bladeforums. I am also under the impression that a non-dealer, attempting to do so, would be easily recognizable and quickly identified and "outed" by fellow forumites and moderators.
A previously discussed topic was whether a couple of forumites (jaxurman being one of them) were hobbyists or people attempting to operate a business on the non-dealer "for sale" forums. My own observations are that "used" knife values are extremely well defined and market forces (forumites and moderators)so attuned to valuation - that it would be highly improbable that a non-dealer forumite could run a financially successful buy/sell knife business on bladeforums. I am also under the impression that a non-dealer, attempting to do so, would be easily recognizable and quickly identified and "outed" by fellow forumites and moderators.
To me a Knife Dealer is someone who buys from the knife manufactures or a knife maker at wholesale prices and sells them to make a profit.
A gold BF member selling knives that they have had in there collection for 25 years or 25 minutes I would not consider a knife dealer. Even if they are making a large profit. If he is lucky enough to pick and choose knives to buy that will be worth more then what he paid for them when it comes time to sell them then good for him!
Of coarse I don't know the whole store of what has been going on here, but these are some of my thoughts on the subject
BTW how do you make a profit selling a knife
A gold BF member selling knives that they have had in there collection for 25 years or 25 minutes I would not consider a knife dealer. Even if they are making a large profit. If he is lucky enough to pick and choose knives to buy that will be worth more then what he paid for them when it comes time to sell them then good for him!
Of coarse I don't know the whole store of what has been going on here, but these are some of my thoughts on the subject
BTW how do you make a profit selling a knife
Jaxurman was given the benefit of the doubt numerous times.
As Cougar stated earlier, we were about to drop the hammer on him when he disappeared, so we didn't need to do anything, and won't, as long as he remains 'persona non grata'. We'll be much tougher on any individual who tries to do the same things he did.
Historically, people are given a fair amount of latitude here at BFC, whther they are a supposed knife dealer, collector, or even a troll. We try to gather as much evidence as possible before we take drastic action, mainly because we don't want to come across as a bunch of tyrants. It is a hard balancing act at times, and we catch much flack for how things are done around here. We want to make BFC an enjoyable place for as many people as possible, and by doing so we cannot please all of the people all of the time.
The addition of 2 new Super Moderators has helped us be able to 'police' the forums much better, and I commend their efforts.
I'm rambling here, and I apologize. If you suspect someone is a dealer, and isn't a dealer member, by all means let us know by hitting the 'report this post to a moderator' button, give us some dialog in the box, and submit it. We'll be happy to monitor the situation, and take appropriate action if it is warranted. Usually a simple email works, so you may never hear what we did.
Bottom line here, folks is that we want you to work with us, and not against us. If you see a problem, let the appropriate moderator know, so we can at least monitor the situation, and take action as necessary.
As Cougar stated earlier, we were about to drop the hammer on him when he disappeared, so we didn't need to do anything, and won't, as long as he remains 'persona non grata'. We'll be much tougher on any individual who tries to do the same things he did.
Historically, people are given a fair amount of latitude here at BFC, whther they are a supposed knife dealer, collector, or even a troll. We try to gather as much evidence as possible before we take drastic action, mainly because we don't want to come across as a bunch of tyrants. It is a hard balancing act at times, and we catch much flack for how things are done around here. We want to make BFC an enjoyable place for as many people as possible, and by doing so we cannot please all of the people all of the time.
The addition of 2 new Super Moderators has helped us be able to 'police' the forums much better, and I commend their efforts.
I'm rambling here, and I apologize. If you suspect someone is a dealer, and isn't a dealer member, by all means let us know by hitting the 'report this post to a moderator' button, give us some dialog in the box, and submit it. We'll be happy to monitor the situation, and take appropriate action if it is warranted. Usually a simple email works, so you may never hear what we did.
Bottom line here, folks is that we want you to work with us, and not against us. If you see a problem, let the appropriate moderator know, so we can at least monitor the situation, and take action as necessary.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
I've given a few away, but I don't sell knives; I'm a pack rat. If I needed a few bucks, well, I've lucked into knives that cost $100-$200 less than I'm sure I could get for them. That would be a profit.Originally posted by pahl
BTW how do you make a profit selling a knife
Haunt the exchange forums and buy what's really good and priced right. You have to be fast; the real bargains don't last. Then turn them around.
I wouldn't call that dealing.
Buying for the sole purpose of reselling is, almost by definition, dealing. We all do it once in a while, I'm sure. But when one starts making a habit of it, when one starts, "haunting" the exchange forum for this purpose, then you need to face the fact that you've crossed over from being a casual hobbiest and become a dealer.
A good deal of what goes on here at bf.c is based on the "honor system." Most people are honorable and so we don't have many problems. The problems come up when someone dishonorable, who's sole motive is to make a buck for himself, tries to exploit our permissive environment for his own selfish gain.
If you're a public radio/tv fan, then there's not much you hate more than "pledge week." They interrupt all the great programs you want to hear/see and replace them with begging. I am always so glad when pledge week is finally over with. Notice, please, that BF.C is brought to you without commercial interruptions and without pledge week. Not one bit-per-second of your bandwidth is wasted on pop-ups or banner ads. It's pure knife discussion -- stick that needle right into that vein and push hard baby! If that's the way you like your knife discussion, the that's the environment we need to work to preserve.
I am mystified to see how productions and very lightly used customs are priced on the forums. Typically, the prices reflect a HUGE discount compared to a brick and mortar store. I have have heard comments about the forums being the "walmart" of knife prices. If someone is making money, substantially speaking, he would have to sell huge volume to do so. I think there is a fair amount of this kind of activity on E-bay. A reputable dealer I know has wondered out loud to me if there hasn't been a distributor, in the past, posing as a member of the forums, which is getting knives at distributor prices and then marking them at 40% off on the forums.
I never heard a name, so I don't know if this activity is still going on.
I think that for the most part, most of us here love collecting and cycles through their collection as they develop other interests in knives.
My .02.
BTW, I have done deals with both miguet and Gene. They are both highly regarded individuals in my camp=very honest and straight.
Barry H
I never heard a name, so I don't know if this activity is still going on.
I think that for the most part, most of us here love collecting and cycles through their collection as they develop other interests in knives.
My .02.
BTW, I have done deals with both miguet and Gene. They are both highly regarded individuals in my camp=very honest and straight.
Barry H
Barry,
Thank you for the kind word and right back at you!
Maybe I jumped into Mike's thread a little too soon. I've done many deals with Mike and he has been ever SO KIND as to sell me knives for lower than he was asking. I NEVER ONCE though asked Mike for a lower price and he was the one who offered the price, (some of you people out there know what I'm talking about). I was so touched by his generosity that I once sold him, one of the "untouchables" of my collection at a greatly reduced price to repay his kindness. He battled with me not to but I talked him into it. I guess when I saw this thread, I thought maybe Mike was inferring to me because I've been selling a lot of my remaining knives lately.
I have been selling off most of my knives and almost all of them were purchased quite a while ago. The REAL reason I've been selling off my knives, and this will shock and anger most of you, is I'm tired of all the ass kissing that has been going on here and on other forums in the last couple of years.
I'm sorry but the REAL bastardization of these great forums has NOT been those who buy and sell for a small profit or whatever but all the crap that goes on with the some of the "popular" makers that dwell here and other forums and their "worshippers".
These makers become the "flavor of the day" and link their posts to their sites. People suddenly notice that they are being noticed and follow the herd and order their knives. They sometimes do things like not honoring their lead times or send out inferior product but they are so popular, (usually because of their "cool" banter), that if you complain, THESE MAKERS don't come down on you, their SUPPORTERS do! How weird is THAT when you think about it? It's actually NOT weird because if you come to the maker's defense, you will go to the front of the line! I understand all this but it still doesn't make it RIGHT.
These makers do, (for the most part), make quality knives but a small circle of well-heeled "worshippers" buy most of them and follow them around like shadows, kissing their asses and buying all their knives thus raising the prices of their knives.
As an example, (and trust me there are MORE), I ordered a knife from one of the most popular makers on this and other forums and was promised a delivery date. The date passed, (by four months), and I noticed on this and other forums that a couple of his "followers" had received knives that were ordered BEFORE I did and they SOLD them at a PROFIT! Where was the outcry about this? These worshippers are the REAL UNATHORIZED DEALERS!
Sorry for the long diatribe. I will continue to visit and yes, sell and sometimes buy knives on these forums. I'm also trying to make knives myself and by God, if I ever get popular, I WILL honor what I say and NO amount of ass kissing will influence me! I also want to say that some of the BEST folks I've ever come across I have met on these great forums. You know who you are and I appreciate to have made your acquaintance!
One last thing. CODE 3, I don't know you but I'm really sorry that you were so quick to think I was the "guilty party". You could have done a quick check by simply putting my name "Gene" into the search forums. You would have found out that my reputation is as honorable as yours and that I've been here since the beginning and have supported these great forums with both my pocketbook and supportive words. Your honcho Kevin knows me and tell him I said "hello".
Thank you for the kind word and right back at you!
Maybe I jumped into Mike's thread a little too soon. I've done many deals with Mike and he has been ever SO KIND as to sell me knives for lower than he was asking. I NEVER ONCE though asked Mike for a lower price and he was the one who offered the price, (some of you people out there know what I'm talking about
). I was so touched by his generosity that I once sold him, one of the "untouchables" of my collection at a greatly reduced price to repay his kindness. He battled with me not to but I talked him into it. I guess when I saw this thread, I thought maybe Mike was inferring to me because I've been selling a lot of my remaining knives lately.I have been selling off most of my knives and almost all of them were purchased quite a while ago. The REAL reason I've been selling off my knives, and this will shock and anger most of you, is I'm tired of all the ass kissing that has been going on here and on other forums in the last couple of years.
I'm sorry but the REAL bastardization of these great forums has NOT been those who buy and sell for a small profit or whatever but all the crap that goes on with the some of the "popular" makers that dwell here and other forums and their "worshippers".
These makers become the "flavor of the day" and link their posts to their sites. People suddenly notice that they are being noticed and follow the herd and order their knives. They sometimes do things like not honoring their lead times or send out inferior product but they are so popular, (usually because of their "cool" banter), that if you complain, THESE MAKERS don't come down on you, their SUPPORTERS do! How weird is THAT when you think about it? It's actually NOT weird because if you come to the maker's defense, you will go to the front of the line! I understand all this but it still doesn't make it RIGHT.
These makers do, (for the most part), make quality knives but a small circle of well-heeled "worshippers" buy most of them and follow them around like shadows, kissing their asses and buying all their knives thus raising the prices of their knives.
As an example, (and trust me there are MORE), I ordered a knife from one of the most popular makers on this and other forums and was promised a delivery date. The date passed, (by four months), and I noticed on this and other forums that a couple of his "followers" had received knives that were ordered BEFORE I did and they SOLD them at a PROFIT! Where was the outcry about this? These worshippers are the REAL UNATHORIZED DEALERS!
Sorry for the long diatribe. I will continue to visit and yes, sell and sometimes buy knives on these forums. I'm also trying to make knives myself and by God, if I ever get popular, I WILL honor what I say and NO amount of ass kissing will influence me! I also want to say that some of the BEST folks I've ever come across I have met on these great forums. You know who you are and I appreciate to have made your acquaintance!
One last thing. CODE 3, I don't know you but I'm really sorry that you were so quick to think I was the "guilty party". You could have done a quick check by simply putting my name "Gene" into the search forums. You would have found out that my reputation is as honorable as yours and that I've been here since the beginning and have supported these great forums with both my pocketbook and supportive words. Your honcho Kevin knows me and tell him I said "hello".
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
Gene, at no time have I ever considered you to be a dealer. Selling your knives for a profit is not wrong. In fact, if I could figure out how to do it, I would. Selling your knives to eat or pay the rent is sometimes required. With a reputation like yours, you don't have to explain anything, of feel even the tiniest bit of guilt for making a few bucks on some knives.
Gene,
Please take no offense, but you said you were the guilty party.
This thread is somewhat weird as I have never seen a bad word about anyone posting in it.
I respect your willingness to discuss your decisions to buy, sell, whatever. But it is uneccessary, and I think the lack of responses here show that no one really is concerned.
Perhaps there is a private email conversation fueling this, but it seems uneccessary.
See you around the forums,
Ed T
Please take no offense, but you said you were the guilty party.
This thread is somewhat weird as I have never seen a bad word about anyone posting in it.
I respect your willingness to discuss your decisions to buy, sell, whatever. But it is uneccessary, and I think the lack of responses here show that no one really is concerned.
Perhaps there is a private email conversation fueling this, but it seems uneccessary.
See you around the forums,
Ed T
Originally posted by Gene:
Gene;
I commented that miguet implied that you were the guilty party on this issue, and that why I asked for more information.
I am aware of your reputation here, and it is beyond reproach. I have nothing but the highest regard for you, and you earned your stellar reputation by your integrity. I wanted to gather all the information I could before forming an opinion. My initial opinion was that if someone was in fact accusing you of being a dealer, I need evidence, because I know this to be false.
My apologies for the implications.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
Gene;
I commented that miguet implied that you were the guilty party on this issue, and that why I asked for more information.
I am aware of your reputation here, and it is beyond reproach. I have nothing but the highest regard for you, and you earned your stellar reputation by your integrity. I wanted to gather all the information I could before forming an opinion. My initial opinion was that if someone was in fact accusing you of being a dealer, I need evidence, because I know this to be false.
My apologies for the implications.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
Code 3 - Your quote:
"Gene;
I commented that miguet implied that you were the guilty party on this issue, and that why I asked for more information."
Please - that is very incorrect:
I never made that implication - nor would I. EVER. Gene Sederholm is a very good friend. We've bought/traded/sold many custom knives together over the past few years and will continue to do so.
For the record - Every person on bladeforums that I've ever traded around with has been honorable and honest to a fault. Without exception. I hope and believe I have been the same.
"Gene;
I commented that miguet implied that you were the guilty party on this issue, and that why I asked for more information."
Please - that is very incorrect:
I never made that implication - nor would I. EVER. Gene Sederholm is a very good friend. We've bought/traded/sold many custom knives together over the past few years and will continue to do so.
For the record - Every person on bladeforums that I've ever traded around with has been honorable and honest to a fault. Without exception. I hope and believe I have been the same.
Originally posted by Gene:
This is where I got the implication from, and I figured you were referring to him. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
Also, I posted the following back a few days ago, and I haven't heard anything. I'd appreciate knowing what's going on, so we can take care of the problem; if there is one.
This is where I got the implication from, and I figured you were referring to him. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
Also, I posted the following back a few days ago, and I haven't heard anything. I'd appreciate knowing what's going on, so we can take care of the problem; if there is one.