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Thumbs up for wam03!
- Thread starter CRH
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2001
- Messages
- 26,713
He was previously warned and then banned for continuing to deal as an individual.
We have dealers who support this site honestly as dealers offering their products, time and advice.
BF takes the stand that a dealer selling as an individual is unfair to those dealers who conduct themselves with the integrity to admit that they are a dealer. wam03 was taking advantage of BF and it's supporting dealers by selling as an individual and that is not fair to the honest dealers who contribute time here as well as the dealers who directly support the forums.
We have dealers who support this site honestly as dealers offering their products, time and advice.
BF takes the stand that a dealer selling as an individual is unfair to those dealers who conduct themselves with the integrity to admit that they are a dealer. wam03 was taking advantage of BF and it's supporting dealers by selling as an individual and that is not fair to the honest dealers who contribute time here as well as the dealers who directly support the forums.
I have to take objection to the banning of wam03 from these forums.
I have known wam03 for many years and can vouch that he is NOT a dealer! He is an individual and a knife enthusiast like we all are.
He does NOT have a cutlery business license, does NOT have a wholesale license and, I repeat, is NOT a dealer. He buys, sells, and trades like we all do .
I find the banning of wam03 from the forums to be quite disappointing and to be a rather quick-to-judge and inequitable treatment of a well-regarded forums member.
I have found wam03 to be of the highest character, honesty and integrity.
My recommendation is to rescind the ban and welcome wam03 back to the forums.
Regards,
Mike
I have known wam03 for many years and can vouch that he is NOT a dealer! He is an individual and a knife enthusiast like we all are.
He does NOT have a cutlery business license, does NOT have a wholesale license and, I repeat, is NOT a dealer. He buys, sells, and trades like we all do .
I find the banning of wam03 from the forums to be quite disappointing and to be a rather quick-to-judge and inequitable treatment of a well-regarded forums member.
I have found wam03 to be of the highest character, honesty and integrity.
My recommendation is to rescind the ban and welcome wam03 back to the forums.
Regards,
Mike
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2001
- Messages
- 26,713
When you have a web-site selling knives at a profit and accept credit cards as payment you are a dealer by definition. (no license is needed to buy knives at wholesale and sell them at a profit.) A dealer with integrity should not be wandering in here selling as a individual 
.
I am sorry that you do not see things that way, but what if you were a dealer who was supporting this site seeing "individuals" with web-sites selling knives and taking credit cards. - that is what I would call inequitable.
I think you are the one with quick judgement.
There was no quick judgement on our part.
He was warned and continued to sell as an individual here. Weeks later the subject was brought up in the mod area (yesterday) the owner and all mods that responded came up with a solution to stop the actions since the warning was not heeded.
.I am sorry that you do not see things that way, but what if you were a dealer who was supporting this site seeing "individuals" with web-sites selling knives and taking credit cards. - that is what I would call inequitable.
I think you are the one with quick judgement.
There was no quick judgement on our part.
He was warned and continued to sell as an individual here. Weeks later the subject was brought up in the mod area (yesterday) the owner and all mods that responded came up with a solution to stop the actions since the warning was not heeded.
Just need to point out an area of clarification:
You noted: "When you have a web-site selling knives at a profit and accept credit cards as payment you are a dealer by definition."
Wam03 appears to accept credit cards, but only thru PayPal as payment.
I've used my credit card thru PayPal in the past to pay forums and e-bay sellers for the items they were selling. It is my understanding that accepting credit cards through PayPal does not qualify a person as being a dealer.
Admittedly, I do not know if wam03 is selling knives at a profit or loss.
(I just know that as an individual, I have both gained and lost money on sales and trades.)
I am not trying to argue or create an adversarial tone here. Just want to make certain that all the facts are clear and accounted for.
Thanks and regards,
Mike
You noted: "When you have a web-site selling knives at a profit and accept credit cards as payment you are a dealer by definition."
Wam03 appears to accept credit cards, but only thru PayPal as payment.
I've used my credit card thru PayPal in the past to pay forums and e-bay sellers for the items they were selling. It is my understanding that accepting credit cards through PayPal does not qualify a person as being a dealer.
Admittedly, I do not know if wam03 is selling knives at a profit or loss.
(I just know that as an individual, I have both gained and lost money on sales and trades.)
I am not trying to argue or create an adversarial tone here. Just want to make certain that all the facts are clear and accounted for.
Thanks and regards,
Mike
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2001
- Messages
- 26,713
Let me make it crystal clear.
Selling an item or items on an ebay auction is quite different from having a site up with prices and accepting payment. Wam03's site is not informational it is a .net site with his own "wam" name on it (i.e. a domain) for the sole purpose of selling knives (and firearms). That is the site of a dealer.
There is no argument. There are facts to be considered before one jumps to conclusions that we have been "inequitable" or have been
"quick-to-judge" or have made a poor decision.
If a person puts up a site and takes credit cards to sell knives that person is a dealer.
The IRS will consider you a dealer so will Blade Forums, so will anyone else who steps back and looks at things logically.
A dealer should not be selling knives as an individual here. If they want to sell knives on BF they should be following the rules of a dealer not as an individual.
One question:
If you were a supporting dealer here (paying for the right to sell and advertise on B.F., how would you feel if we allowed individuals with web-sites such as wam03's to post in the individual for sale forum?
I would be upset if the staff at B.F. allowed that to happen. What is the incentive for me to support the site if we allowed wam03 to continue selling as an individual. Be honest with me step back from the personal part and tell me if you would feel that allowing that would be fair.
To me and more importantly the owner of B.F and the rest of the mods - that is the where the "inequity" would exist and that is why he was banned after he had plenty of time to conduct business in a way that would be fair to the others who support BF.
If wam03 took that site out of his posts and profile and sold as an individual it would be OK. He was told that, he continued taking advantage of the owner and in fact the other supporting members and dealers of BF. If you can explain how allowing him to continue those actions would be fair you might have a valid point in this case.
Unless the owner of B.F. changes his mind the case is closed.
Selling an item or items on an ebay auction is quite different from having a site up with prices and accepting payment. Wam03's site is not informational it is a .net site with his own "wam" name on it (i.e. a domain) for the sole purpose of selling knives (and firearms). That is the site of a dealer.
There is no argument. There are facts to be considered before one jumps to conclusions that we have been "inequitable" or have been
"quick-to-judge" or have made a poor decision.
If a person puts up a site and takes credit cards to sell knives that person is a dealer.
The IRS will consider you a dealer so will Blade Forums, so will anyone else who steps back and looks at things logically.
A dealer should not be selling knives as an individual here. If they want to sell knives on BF they should be following the rules of a dealer not as an individual.
One question:
If you were a supporting dealer here (paying for the right to sell and advertise on B.F., how would you feel if we allowed individuals with web-sites such as wam03's to post in the individual for sale forum?
I would be upset if the staff at B.F. allowed that to happen. What is the incentive for me to support the site if we allowed wam03 to continue selling as an individual. Be honest with me step back from the personal part and tell me if you would feel that allowing that would be fair.
To me and more importantly the owner of B.F and the rest of the mods - that is the where the "inequity" would exist and that is why he was banned after he had plenty of time to conduct business in a way that would be fair to the others who support BF.
If wam03 took that site out of his posts and profile and sold as an individual it would be OK. He was told that, he continued taking advantage of the owner and in fact the other supporting members and dealers of BF. If you can explain how allowing him to continue those actions would be fair you might have a valid point in this case.
Unless the owner of B.F. changes his mind the case is closed.
It also appears to me that his website is set up for the sole purpose of selling.
You take my website, for example. Yeah, there's a for-sale page. But there are some 300 pages on my site. Only one lists knives for sale. That's 0.33% of my site. The rest of that site, 99.67% of it, is pure hobby and pure information stuff that I contribute to the knife community -- indeed to the internet community at large -- freely for no profit to me at all.
I also agree that if you're set up to take cards, you're a dealer.
You take my website, for example. Yeah, there's a for-sale page. But there are some 300 pages on my site. Only one lists knives for sale. That's 0.33% of my site. The rest of that site, 99.67% of it, is pure hobby and pure information stuff that I contribute to the knife community -- indeed to the internet community at large -- freely for no profit to me at all.
I also agree that if you're set up to take cards, you're a dealer.
As you have noted: "There is no argument."
You have your facts, you have your criteria and you have your opinions. The decision has been made and it appears to be final.
No further comments or questions from me on this issue.
Regards,
Mike
You have your facts, you have your criteria and you have your opinions. The decision has been made and it appears to be final.
No further comments or questions from me on this issue.
Regards,
Mike
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 77,368
The problem is we charge dealers more to post ads here than we charge collectors. We have to do that because we charge by the year rather than by the ad. (There is no practical way we could charge by the ad; the costs of transfering the money would amount to more than the fee.)
We have to draw a line between dealers and collectors for purposes of advertising on this website. Some of the knife dealers on the net don't think of themselves as knife dealers -- because they get most of their income from something else (like almost all the net dealers), or because they're in denial about how many knives they buy and sell, or they've never added it up -- whatever their reason might be, some knife dealers don't think of themselves as knife dealers. We don't just stomp on those people, we explain to them that they meet our definition of a knife dealer and if they want to continue to advertise on Bladeforums they'll have to pay the dealer rate.
Anybody's entitled to his own personal definition. He doesn't have to start thinking of himself as a dealer; you don't have to start thinking of him as a dealer -- but if he wants to advertise on Bladeforums he has to pay the dealer rate. If he thought that was too much to spend on advertising he could have been a member and hung out here without advertising here; some dealers do that and they're welcome to. It's only those who insist on advertising without paying that get banned.
We have to draw a line between dealers and collectors for purposes of advertising on this website. Some of the knife dealers on the net don't think of themselves as knife dealers -- because they get most of their income from something else (like almost all the net dealers), or because they're in denial about how many knives they buy and sell, or they've never added it up -- whatever their reason might be, some knife dealers don't think of themselves as knife dealers. We don't just stomp on those people, we explain to them that they meet our definition of a knife dealer and if they want to continue to advertise on Bladeforums they'll have to pay the dealer rate.
Anybody's entitled to his own personal definition. He doesn't have to start thinking of himself as a dealer; you don't have to start thinking of him as a dealer -- but if he wants to advertise on Bladeforums he has to pay the dealer rate. If he thought that was too much to spend on advertising he could have been a member and hung out here without advertising here; some dealers do that and they're welcome to. It's only those who insist on advertising without paying that get banned.