Tidioute #81 Imperfections

[SwissHeritageCo]

In the unlikely event that anyone cares for an update: I reached out to the the dealer, a BF member and supporter, who agreed to exchange my knife for another he has in stock and address any warranty claims himself with GEC. My knife is already with the USPS and on its way back to the dealer.

Now I have to wait even longer before I can drop a new #81 into my pocket and get to work... pure agony .

Sounds like good customer service from the dealer to me. You should drop their name

You made the right move. That would irritate me.

 

[oldmanwilly]

Sounds like good customer service from the dealer to me. You should drop their name

You made the right move. That would irritate me.

Indeed, not sure why I didn't think of that. I'm working with Jason at New River Knife Works . I've bought many knives from him over the years and had nothing but stellar interactions and excellent communication. I couldn't recommend his outfit enough.

 

[Johnnythefox]

In the unlikely event that anyone cares for an update: I reached out to the the dealer, a BF member and supporter, who agreed to exchange my knife for another he has in stock and address any warranty claims himself with GEC. My knife is already with the USPS and on its way back to the dealer.

Now I have to wait even longer before I can drop a new #81 into my pocket and get to work... pure agony .

But the best solution and worth the wait.

 

[btb01]

My red linen micarta has the same issue. It was proud when I got it, noticed it because it caught my finger, and I was planning on taping off the surrounding spring/liners/bolster and just filing it down, but upon further inspection, like the OP found, the catch bit can be moved in and out of the proper position.

Then I got a Riverbottom Richlite in today. It’s not as bad as the red, but the catch bit definitely moves on it, too. Unfortunately I feel like this is probably gonna show up on more than just the few knives represented here.

 

[Hatchet_Jack]

Hoping this isn’t an issue on the City Stock, not keen on having to send it half way around the world for fixing. Just did that with a knife to France.

 

[euroken]

Didn’t we have a similar situation with GEC 38 split back whittler with the tapered liner? I recall that liner was loose and ‘could’ poke out behind the back spring. The solution at the time was just to push it in with a finger nail

But, it was in there loose pivoting around a pin.

We don’t hear about this anymore…

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

Either way it's a legit usurper of joy.

 

[oldmanwilly]

Yep. This is the first GEC I've ever sent back. I'm not usually so picky with cosmetic issues as I like to use my knives, but something about a loose, pivoting piece that will sometimes poke up and scratch me was more than I could stomach. If the next one has the same problem then I'll do my best to file it down and hope that a wad of beeswax stuffed in the gap will make it palatable.

 

[btb01]

In the unlikely event that anyone cares for an update: I reached out to the the dealer, a BF member and supporter, who agreed to exchange my knife for another he has in stock and address any warranty claims himself with GEC. My knife is already with the USPS and on its way back to the dealer.

Now I have to wait even longer before I can drop a new #81 into my pocket and get to work... pure agony .

Hopefully your replacement will be solid. Glad you were able to get one. The downside to GECs selling out the way they do is that there’s no guarantee there will be a replacement available if you experience an issue that warrants returning a knife.

Out of curiosity, I took out a few other GECs with catch bits to take a look at them. Some seem to solidly stay in place (35s from 2016-17, 2023 BF 34), while others have some movement. My 68 White Owl from 2021 can be moved back and forth a bit with some pressure. The catch bit on my 46 Whaler can be very easily moved by just running the tip of a finger over the end of the bolster. And this 32 Engineer from this year can be moved quite a bit, as you can see here.

Now the big difference between these other knives and the 81 is that they all have rounded bolsters, while the 81 has square bolsters.The square bolster seems to be what causes that little piece of the catch bit to actually stick out and catch your finger; the same part of the catch bit on the round bolstered knives continues to follow the curve of the bolster and never sticks out proud like that, which is why I’d never have noticed they moved, because it doesn’t (as far as I can tell) create any sort of problem.

Of course, I’m far from an expert on catch bits. I have a general understanding of how they work and the purpose they serve, but I’d be curious to hear from a knife maker who knows more about this sort of thing to find out if movement is normal, what would cause it, etc.

I think ken erickson has posted some good info on catch bits before (I’m pretty sure it was a post of his that helped me understand ‘em a while back). Perhaps he might be willing to throw in his two cents.

 

[calm]

This is disappointing.
I do not consider GEC high end or "Custom", as some tend to, but to see this issue appearing in a noticeable number of new and recent knives from them points to a lack of QC.
I always thought that a GEC employee will have a quick look at the knife before sending it out, to catch these obvious, visible issues, but it seems that they do not do it for all knives, if they do it at all.

 

[Hatchet_Jack]

This is disappointing.
I do not consider GEC high end or "Custom", as some tend to

Nor do I but the forum knife was going to be over $500 aud which is why I passed and the city stock nearly $400 aud. I happily paid the latter because I really wanted it mind you. I’m currently having two actual custom knives made (fixed blade granted) and they’re both under $400 aud.

If costs keep creeping it’s not unreasonable to expect QC to do the same.

 

[Will Power]

Not noticed any of my single-spring GECs having an issue with spacer sticking out, but if they had I would've been annoyed by it. But then, haven't had any of these new attractive 81s. Returning a defective knife is absolutely the thing to do as hopefully word will get from dealers back to the manufacturer. However, there's no guarantee that some dealers might just palm it off on the next customer who just MIGHT be a non user of knives and a collector of 'investment tubes' so who cares about functional issues??

Barrett makes a very valid point, as usual, the scarcity of GECs and their current super sought after status might well mean there are no replacements . The scarcity of GECs and some steep increase in costs- currency changes, but not a similar rise in my income- have now all but put them beyond my reach. OK one has to live with it, not much can be done. At the same time it is fair to have very high expectations about the F&F and overall functional & aesthetic finish of these knives given their cost/value and position in the market.

This year's Forum Knife for instance, is way beyond my grasp- it's still not clear if non CONUS orders will be accepted. But it would be 300 USD plus shipping, say 40 plus 27% VAT import tax to the EU makes about 431 USD And if there were issues and I needed to send it back.....Fortunately, the knife is too big for my tastes and I can buy a CASE 75 Large Stockman in various scales, stainless or carbon for around 80 USD plus shipping etc which is quite an eye opener.

It's very constructive that people share their actual experiences of knives and not lapsing into some fanboy delusions or retailing horror fables about knives when you've never actually owned one. The 81 pattern looks very desirable in this 2 blade form be it Charlie's beautiful SFO or the general production models, they also look like USER to me so it is important that F&F is spot on .

 

[ken erickson]

Hopefully your replacement will be solid. Glad you were able to get one. The downside to GECs selling out the way they do is that there’s no guarantee there will be a replacement available if you experience an issue that warrants returning a knife.

Out of curiosity, I took out a few other GECs with catch bits to take a look at them. Some seem to solidly stay in place (35s from 2016-17, 2023 BF 34), while others have some movement. My 68 White Owl from 2021 can be moved back and forth a bit with some pressure. The catch bit on my 46 Whaler can be very easily moved by just running the tip of a finger over the end of the bolster. And this 32 Engineer from this year can be moved quite a bit, as you can see here.

Now the big difference between these other knives and the 81 is that they all have rounded bolsters, while the 81 has square bolsters.The square bolster seems to be what causes that little piece of the catch bit to actually stick out and catch your finger; the same part of the catch bit on the round bolstered knives continues to follow the curve of the bolster and never sticks out proud like that, which is why I’d never have noticed they moved, because it doesn’t (as far as I can tell) create any sort of problem.

Of course, I’m far from an expert on catch bits. I have a general understanding of how they work and the purpose they serve, but I’d be curious to hear from a knife maker who knows more about this sort of thing to find out if movement is normal, what would cause it, etc.

I think ken erickson has posted some good info on catch bits before (I’m pretty sure it was a post of his that helped me understand ‘em a while back). Perhaps he might be willing to throw in his two cents.

You might be overpaying but here goes! LOL JK

Catch bits are really finicky to fit up. I included a very crude drawing that might help explain why a catch bit pivots slightly with either a at-rest backspring or when the tang of the blade has the backspring elevated from the frame.

There are two main fitting points on a catch bit. The inside tip and the point near the end of the backspring. These need to be fit very tight but not so tight as to support the backspring rather than the tension being on the blade tang.

If these two points are not fit tight enough the catch bit can pivot even with the blade at rest . Depending on how tight the blade has been peened this looseness or pivoting action of the catch bit might not be noticeable.

Now, things are different as the backspring is cammed away from the frame and catch bit as the blade starts to open. In effect those fitting points open up and WILL allow the catch bit to pivot. Typically not noticed as your opening or closing the blade if the catch bit was fit with tight fitting points to begin with.

The way I would overcome this when building a handmade slip joint that used a catch bit was to internally pin the catch bit to the frame with a blind hole. I would use a 1/16 diameter pin just forward of the main blade pivot pin hole. Even though it was peened into a countersink and dressed smooth the pin in never able to fall out or come loose due t be sandwiched in by the frame and blade tang.

One of the main take aways from all this babbling on my part is that pinning the catch bit is not feasible on a production knife basis. Probable would add 1/2 to an hour of hand fitting in a production setting adding $$$ to the cost of the knife. Making, properly fitting and pinning a catch bit in my shop added maybe 2 to 3 hours into the knife build.

Hope this was all clear as mud!

 

[TouhouFan]

This is disappointing.
I do not consider GEC high end or "Custom", as some tend to, but to see this issue appearing in a noticeable number of new and recent knives from them points to a lack of QC.
I always thought that a GEC employee will have a quick look at the knife before sending it out, to catch these obvious, visible issues, but it seems that they do not do it for all knives, if they do it at all.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they have no QC, but perhaps they hired a new guy?

 

[waynorth]

One of the main take aways from all this babbling on my part is that pinning the catch bit is not feasible on a production knife basis. Probable would add 1/2 to an hour of hand fitting in a production setting adding $$$ to the cost of the knife. Making, properly fitting and pinning a catch bit in my shop added maybe 2 to 3 hours into the knife build.

Hope this was all clear as mud!

It was clear to me, Ken!! Good explanation!!
I must admit, I have never seen a catch bit move, or get displaced, regardless of age, old or new knife!! Most must be fitted well enough to work in practice!!

 

[Hatchet_Jack]

.....Fortunately I can buy a CASE

Half your luck!, I got an email back saying they won’t ship here.

 

[ken erickson]

It was clear to me, Ken!! Good explanation!!
I must admit, I have never seen a catch bit move, or get displaced, regardless of age, old or new knife!! Most must be fitted well enough to work in practice!!

Thanks Charlie!

My take, if those two fitting points were fitted tight to begin with, a properly peened blade, some time for any oil to get sticky from age and a bit of dust and grit working it's way in between the catch bit and frame and it will be pretty solid.

 

[waynorth]

Thanks Charlie!

My take, if those two fitting points were fitted tight to begin with, a properly peened blade, some time for any oil to get sticky from age and a bit of dust and grit working it's way in between the catch bit and frame and it will be pretty solid.

I'm a fan of dusty, gritty old knives!!

 

[ken erickson]

I'm a fan of dusty, gritty old knives!!

I am getting there too and your post put a smile on my face!

 

[oldmanwilly]

You might be overpaying but here goes! LOL JK

Catch bits are really finicky to fit up. I included a very crude drawing that might help explain why a catch bit pivots slightly with either a at-rest backspring or when the tang of the blade has the backspring elevated from the frame.

There are two main fitting points on a catch bit. The inside tip and the point near the end of the backspring. These need to be fit very tight but not so tight as to support the backspring rather than the tension being on the blade tang.

If these two points are not fit tight enough the catch bit can pivot even with the blade at rest . Depending on how tight the blade has been peened this looseness or pivoting action of the catch bit might not be noticeable.

Now, things are different as the backspring is cammed away from the frame and catch bit as the blade starts to open. In effect those fitting points open up and WILL allow the catch bit to pivot. Typically not noticed as your opening or closing the blade if the catch bit was fit with tight fitting points to begin with.

The way I would overcome this when building a handmade slip joint that used a catch bit was to internally pin the catch bit to the frame with a blind hole. I would use a 1/16 diameter pin just forward of the main blade pivot pin hole. Even though it was peened into a countersink and dressed smooth the pin in never able to fall out or come loose due t be sandwiched in by the frame and blade tang.

One of the main take aways from all this babbling on my part is that pinning the catch bit is not feasible on a production knife basis. Probable would add 1/2 to an hour of hand fitting in a production setting adding $$$ to the cost of the knife. Making, properly fitting and pinning a catch bit in my shop added maybe 2 to 3 hours into the knife build.

Hope this was all clear as mud!

Thank you for this! I wish every detail of knife construction could be explained so well, and with diagrams. It makes more sense to me now and I do not blame GEC for choosing not to fit these bits with blind pins.

For my part, I am not a "fan boy," but I have a high opinion of GEC due to the high quality of the two dozen or so knives I've had from them with only one QC issue to-date. I thought the catch bit on mine was a detail others may want to be aware of and discuss. I did not intend for this thread to become a place to bash GEC, however I do not mind people voicing their legitimate frustrations due to rising costs or QC issues of their own. I, too, am not happy with the increasing prices, however I have been able to avoid this issue for a while due to one simple fact: since GEC's knives are harder to acquire I have acquired fewer of them and have therefore spent less on them in recent years. Quite the silver-lining.

For now, I am glad to wait around to snatch one or two GECs every so often rather than purchasing from Case or others (not to bash Case, I love the ones I have). I look forward to my next GEC getting dusty, gritty, and gunked up with deer tallow.