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Tim Britton Knives: Disappointed

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It sounds like the guy may indeed have some things going on at the moment. However, a few things do stand out to me.

Today got an email from him saying that he got word from the US Post Office that the envelope to me was found "empty" at their processing hub.

The knife was packed in a mailing envelope and not a box? As much as you probably paid for this knife, he couldn't afford to spend the extra money to put it in a box instead? Putting an item like this in a padded envelope is asking for trouble.

At this point I decided to google him and found a note on this forum from another buyer who had waited months for a knife only to be told that his knife has also been "lost in the mail".....

You'd think he would've taken steps to improve his packaging after something like this happened the first time so that the chances of it happening again would be far less.

He offered to send me a pocket folder in lue of the knife that I had ordered 8 months ago. Once agan emailed him, told him how frustrated I was and asked him to call me so that we could figure this out. Sent back an email refusing to call me - saying he was "relaxing" before flying out to the Vegas knife show and again offering a folder - or my money back.

On the up side, it sounds like he's willing to work with you to an extent to bring the situation to a satisfactory conclusion for both of you as he did offer to refund your money. Given the choice between the two, if it were me, I'd take him up on the offer to refund your money.
 
I have some general advice for those wanting to buy a handmade knife. If yoiu like a makers work, ordfer the knife of his that yoiu like, do NOT order a Loveless hunter from Bill Ruppel who is famous for fantastic slipjoints. Or a Ruple pattern from the Loveless shop. In either case the maker will keep putting off making the knife with the slightest excuse. When you fight human nature you set yourself up for sadness. When you order the unusual you can expect to pay a deposit, very reasonable, better yet order what the maker makes and avoid deposits and disappointments.

Oh, yes, Tim is a friend of mine, has been for years. I am sorry that he has failed to please some of his customers. Have NEVER heard that he failed to resolve a problem in proper fashion.
 
I'll let you make your own assumptions. Here is a picture of Tim at an A.G. Russell show. Count the number of knives on his table that you can see. Multiply that number by the number of shows he has scheduled this year, seven. Add knives for orders and dealers and what number do you come up with? I can't make that many knives a year and I'm half his age.

I can see how someone would have a hard time pulling this off. Going by what's in the picture and the number of shows, that's roughly 160 knives in a year for shows alone. That's roughly one hand made knife out the door every two days year round. You have to be putting some serious steel to the grinder to make kind of output.
 
In any field there are folks who have a strong work ethic, and have figured out more efficient ways of producing work and increasing output.

I am one of them. Apparently, so is Tim.

I wish the OP a resolution so honest, he can return here and allow that it was fair. That he posted and ran was VERY unfair.

Good luck Tim. See you in NJ in March.

Coop
 
I have no personal knowledge and no dog in this fight but I've heard the occasional rumor over the years both on these forums and elsewhere on the web and it is disturbing, to say the least.
It benefits no one in this community to either proffer (or accept on their face) false allegations, or worse, to be in the position of having to defend oneself from such claims.

As long as Mr. Britton is putting the record straight in this thread, perhaps he can put these rumors to bed once and for all by letting our members (and his potential customers) know what (if any) parts or processes are outsourced (both here in the U.S. and/or overseas) and what is done entirely within his shop by hand.

This should (hopefully) clear up any misunderstandings and/or unwarranted accusations.

My thanks in advance on behalf of all our members.

I am still hoping for a response to the question I posed yesterday so that this particular matter (which continues to crop up from time to time) can be put to rest as well.
 
thanks Chuck.....you have touched my conscience. I do owe you guys something.....Blackie Collins and Frank Centofante ALWAYS shared with me and many other fledgeling makers way back when. Previous to this time, only time I visit forums is when someone tells me someone is talking trash about me. I can do better..... So here goes my "secret stuff" that allows me to make almost one slippie per day:

1. start with thin steel. I HAD a stash of 2.4mm bg42 sheet which was an overage for some knife company. now using s35vn
2. 3 most important words in knifemaking, flat, flat and flat.
3. I use 416ss for liners and bolsters, have it profiled by waterjet; all metal parts are waterjet profiled, even bolsters
4. fasten bolsters to liners with spot welder (2 spots), pound flat fit with lead hammer
5. use only the finest handle material and keep it thin, reduce size from bottom side only
6. ALL blade grinding is done with a very old variable speed Porter Cable reversible disc grinder at a VERY low speed.
(even a monkey could grind blades if speed is slow enuff.) Coarsest grit used is 220 alox
gottago cut what few hairs I have left, more this afternoon on grinding and finishing steel. Promise to save you a ton of time and cut fingers !!!!
and by the way.....thanks for reminding me that I've been selfish.....that's true, and I have. I'll try to do better. regards, Tim

I am still hoping for a response to the question I posed yesterday so that this particular matter (which continues to crop up from time to time) can be put to rest as well.

Pretty sure Tim already answered your question in the above quote in this thread.

Personally really enjoyed meeting Tim when I did and it's been a pleasure having some contact with him every now and then. I'd agree with A.G. Although I'm sure Tim can do a great fixed blade....if someone is known for his folders....why order something else from him.
 
Pretty sure Tim already answered your question in the above quote in this thread.

No, that's not completely correct. If you read the highlighted portion of my question (quoted above) and the response you quoted you'll see that there are points which have not been addressed.
(Apparently I'm not the only one who feels this way as I have been contacted by other forum members who felt that some questions remain unanswered.)

To be clear, my question is in no way meant to imply anything. I, like other members, have briefly met Mr. Britton at past shows and I have admired some of the work available on his table...however, just as I have with any other custom knife maker I have met and purchased from over the many years I have been buying and collecting, knowing what goes into the process of creating and building a knife and who is the author of that work is fundamental to the relationship and any potential transaction.

If the knife is built by sole authorship, I want to know. If parts are obtained or sourced from other makers or vendors I want to know that. Likewise, if any parts or work are sourced overseas I'd want to know that as well. All of these factors are important when one considers a potential purchase and what that purchase might be worth. Clearly there is a difference in value between a knife that is made entirely by hand by one person in his own shop and one that is assembled and customized from parts sourced elsewhere.

There should be no secrets or shadows in the process of purchasing a custom knife and I can't think of any reason why a maker wouldn't happily provide any information that a potential customer requests before handing over his or her hard earned money. I'm sure Mr. Britton feels the same way.
 
No, that's not completely correct. If you read the highlighted portion of my question (quoted above) and the response you quoted you'll see that there are points which have not been addressed.
(Apparently I'm not the only one who feels this way as I have been contacted by other forum members who felt that some questions remain unanswered.)

To be clear, my question is in no way meant to imply anything. I, like other members, have briefly met Mr. Britton at past shows and I have admired some of the work available on his table...however, just as I have with any other custom knife maker I have met and purchased from over the many years I have been buying and collecting, knowing what goes into the process of creating and building a knife and who is the author of that work is fundamental to the relationship and any potential transaction.

If the knife is built by sole authorship, I want to know. If parts are obtained or sourced from other makers or vendors I want to know that. Likewise, if any parts or work are sourced overseas I'd want to know that as well. All of these factors are important when one considers a potential purchase and what that purchase might be worth. Clearly there is a difference in value between a knife that is made entirely by hand by one person in his own shop and one that is assembled and customized from parts sourced elsewhere.

There should be no secrets or shadows in the process of purchasing a custom knife and I can't think of any reason why a maker wouldn't happily provide any information that a potential customer requests before handing over his or her hard earned money. I'm sure Mr. Britton feels the same way.

Elliot,

I am sure that you have addressed these questions in open forum to each of the makers you buy from, I am sorry that I missed those threads. Who are these folks on the forum that come to you to ask these questions instead of posting the questions in this thread themselves? And why?

Nobody asked me to poke my nose in, I was just curious. I personally do not care if a maker bandsaws each blade out with his own hands or has them cut by waterjet or EDM in sombody elses shop. What I want is great quality at a fair price. No one who believes in sole authorship would have a Loveless as a gift would they?

Why do we not have a separate forum for the collectors and makers that focus on sole authorship?



A. G.
 
I feel kinda like I'm being called to prove to folks over the internet that I'm not beating my wife. Gedraitis has brought this allegation up previously and it seemed to be put to rest for a bit, and now it is mentioned again. Knives sold by me with my name attached are made by me in my shop here in Winston salem, NC I have bought pivot pins and thumb bobs and thong tubing and of course screws and, raw materials. Howard Viele, Steven Rapp and Paul Fox have spent many hours with me in my shop. I have spent days helping lesser known makers get started and often am contacted by other folder makers who ask my help with projects. No one has ever worked with me in my shop. Interesting that virtually every well known maker I know at some time has been accused of having knives or parts made somewhere besides his shop. BIG question at this time SHOULD be why Gedraitis is peddling this crap again replete with photos of me at a show....My knives and tenure (since 1972) oughta be worth something. At every show I attend I bring a bag fulla parts to demonstrate the slipjoint making process. Please stop by sometime and let's talk.....if you buy the crap this dude is floating. I notice that you are in Blue Ridge country.....please stop by and visit sometime. Coop says you're a respected member of this forum. welcome !
 
money was refunded long ago....he still wasn't satisfied. Did you miss my email re sending him 14 emails keeping him posted ? Paper envelope is not correct....it was a post office bag, fiber reinforced mailer. They have been quite secure for me as long as knife is well padded.
 
Elliot,

I am sure that you have addressed these questions in open forum to each of the makers you buy from, I am sorry that I missed those threads. Who are these folks on the forum that come to you to ask these questions instead of posting the questions in this thread themselves? And why?

Nobody asked me to poke my nose in, I was just curious. I personally do not care if a maker bandsaws each blade out with his own hands or has them cut by waterjet or EDM in sombody elses shop. What I want is great quality at a fair price. No one who believes in sole authorship would have a Loveless as a gift would they?

Why do we not have a separate forum for the collectors and makers that focus on sole authorship?



A. G.

A.G., I won't rise to your bait. I generally only buy custom knives from makers I have a personal relationship built up with over the years or those I have done my homework on. You can be sure I have done my due diligence.

If you'd care to critique some makers here, please feel free to start a thread in the appropriate forum. It wasn't too long ago that you came to me for a list of the best custom slipjoint makers (in my personal opinion) and it seems to me that you took the list I sent you to heart as I saw many of those makers picked to build some prototypes on your behalf.

The question as to who writes to me via email or PM is not fodder for this thread. Those who wish to post here are clearly able.

As to your suggestions regarding future forums, that would be a discussion you might want to bring up with Spark.

Let's not take this thread off-topic.
 
to JSM Customs.....look at the knives on the table at AGR show. aren't you assuming that I sell out at every show ? Wish that was the case. I sold 6-8 knives at AGs last year. Now please multiply THAT number times the number of shows I did......be more accurate and closer to reality.
 
The OP of this thread more or less had a complaint,a warning...
Then Tim was asked to talk about his knife building methods & what noit. At that point the thread already went off topic.

I once was asked to sell 24 custom slipjoints ,built by a maker that had them,unsold from 4,or 5 shows in the past. These knives were on his table at the last show he did,plus the knives he currently built. To look at pictures & say how many knives a maker builds in a year is not accurate.

Also you would be surprised to know how many makers do this or that to build a knife.
I'm with AG in this regard. Let the buyers dollars go where the buyer wants to go.

Do you know how much time it takes to make or set jigs up ? If you have not built a knife like Tim has,than who are you to question how he did it. If you are leary,or a super finicky buyer,go to the maker that you feel is building you the knife the what & how you want it.

Tim's a good guy friend of mine & builds really nice knives. All the rest of this crap that alot of you think you know,is alot of smoke & mirrors.
Buy the knives you like,from who or where you want.PS edited in,do your homework if you feel you need to before you buy,too.Then make your decision
 
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Please stop by sometime and let's talk.....if you buy the crap this dude is floating. I notice that you are in Blue Ridge country.....please stop by and visit sometime. Coop says you're a respected member of this forum. welcome !

Thank you for the invitation, I appreciate it.

However, just to be clear, let me reiterate that I am making no inferences or accusations as I am in possession of no evidence and evidence is something I have worked closely with all my adult life.

I was raised to take a man at his word until he has given me reason not to believe him. That is not the case here, and I want that understood.

I also understand what you are saying about feeling you have to prove things that are not in existence but I think that part of the problem derives from the fact that you mentioned earlier that "all metal parts" are water jet cut (profiled) including the bolsters. What is not clear is who is doing this? Is this done by yourself, a domestic or off-shore contractor? Are these "metal parts" the same parts used when building your knives with your "name attached"?

There is nothing wrong with knives built in any particular manner unless how they are built is not freely disclosed to any customer or interested party, imho.

I own knives built in the U.S. as well as abroad, custom and production. I would only have an issue if I didn't know what I was paying for when I plunked down my money. The rest is just personal preference.
 
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I think it'd be pretty hard to know everything about every knife a collector owns. You would have to have a book of questions just to ask,to get the answers to know all.:cool: There's an idea
 
I also understand what you are saying about feeling you have to prove things that are not in existence but I think that part of the problem derives from the fact that you mentioned earlier that "all metal parts" are water jet cut (profiled) including the bolsters. What is not clear is who is doing this? Is this done by yourself, a domestic or off-shore contractor? Are these "metal parts" the same parts used when building your knives with your "name attached"?


You're taking this off topic from the OP...

Chris D. :D
 
to JSM Customs.....look at the knives on the table at AGR show. aren't you assuming that I sell out at every show ? Wish that was the case. I sold 6-8 knives at AGs last year. Now please multiply THAT number times the number of shows I did......be more accurate and closer to reality.

That's around 60. Still a ton of output that would leave me spread pretty thin. And didn't know that you're a fairly local member/maker. Seems like there's a lot of people here from North Carolina.
 
tons of questions to address and this is my last post. Thanks to my friends and I do appreciate my customers. I keep hearing stuff like questions about my knifemaking capacity. I can make a completed slippie in 12 hours. re numbers of knives on my table.....that is MY problem ! Days of selling out are long gone. I worry when I carry a knife to 3-4 shows. Time you guys spend on forums I spend in my shop. Waterjet is and has been accepted business practice for many years......all this does is replace the metal cutting bandsaw. They claim they can drill holes with .002 accuracy....but I don't trust them. BIG help for me is parts are uniform and I start with a bag full of rough parts, rather than a metal sheet. When you ask me for a baby bullet as on my website...this is exactly what you get. "My" waterjet cutter works in the furniture industry....usually profiling stone or glass table tops, etc......why does this matter ? I spent a lot of time with my neighbors down south, Claude Montjoy, Russell Easler, and Ron Gaston. All honorable men and all have passed.....say a word about any of them and I'll feed you your teeth. Ron bragged about being able to make a knife in 2 hrs. and usually had 50-60 knives at any show, and he did them all. Claude, Russell and Ron all came from plant maintennance, machine set-up type work and streamlined production.....never made one single knife....always in batches. Oh, by the way......I have 23 knives on hand right now, made mostly during 2012.....should I be fearful of putting all of these on my table at the coming ARK show ? If you guys want or need anything from me beyond this point, I'm at [Removed] or in my shop at [Removed] I had temporarily forgotten why I avoid forums.....now I remember.
 
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