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Time for my exit; Adios shop talk

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by J. Doyle, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. J. Doyle

    J. Doyle Bladesmith/Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 17, 2008
    I can't waste any more of my time in this subforum. This is something I've been threatening quietly to myself and a few close friends for some time now so its not new. But I woke up this morning and today seems like the day.

    Its no secret that some participants in shop talk have driven away many quality, seasoned and knowledgeable makers for a long time now, leaving many to wonder why.

    I don't consider myself even remotely in the same field as some of the greats that used to post here but don't anymore. Nor do I feel I had a ton of knowledge to share. But I don't want anyone to have to wonder why I'm choosing to not participate here any further.

    This place has become a muddled wasteland of bad information, inflated egos and pointless nonsense. There is so little good sound factual info left that it isn't worth sorting through the bad info anymore.

    There are more than a few internet 'experts' that give advice on every topic under the sun yet can't or won't provide a single clear photo example to prove they know what they're talking about, much less ever even attempted the topic at hand......some even when asked directly for such, offering excuses instead or leaving radio silence.

    Proven experienced knowledgeable veterans are allowed to be repeatedly hassled by ameteur trolls that should have been banned long ago.

    There is a gross lack of discernment between levels of craftsmanship and being self-aware of one's skill sets is largely a long lost attribute.

    There is a serious lack of leadership to go along with the lack of factual info. If I was seeking good knifemaking info, this is not the place I'd turn to. I feel sorry for the new maker seeking real knowledge that stumbles in here and has to wade through the aforementioned rubbish to find the few nuggets of truth that are still offered up by the few knowledgeable experts that are still graciously willing to waste their time here.

    So these are the reasons that I just won't do it anymore. Good luck folks.
  2. scott kozub

    scott kozub Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Jan 1, 2018
    Wow, I've only been doing this for about a year and have made maybe 20 knives or so but everything I have learned has come from this site.

    Hopefully I've managed to sift through the proper info.

    Sorry to see you go.
  3. Busto

    Busto KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 26, 2011

    Sorry to see you leaving YOUR contributions:thumbsup: to this forum will be missed!

    Happy New Year my Friend:cool::thumbsup:

  4. Richard338

    Richard338 Gold Member Gold Member

    May 3, 2005
    I hope you come back at some point.
    Although there may be a variety of replies to some questions, I think people put a lot of weight on the opinions of a few people who are clearly experienced and skilled. I usually feel able to sift out some great guidance.
    allenkey likes this.
  5. Ken H>

    Ken H>

    Dec 31, 2011
    John, While I do understand the amount of time it can take to be active on a forum, I do want you to know that many of use (myself especially) really do appreciate the knowledge you have shared with us.

    You are correct there is a lot of rubbish to dig thru for good info. BUT - I do think most folks, even newbies are able to determine who to listen (read) to pretty quick and just pass over the crap to get to folks like yourself, Larrin, Hoss, Stacy, and many others. You have contributed LOTS to this forum, and especially to my learning.

    I do hope you will come back after a short rest - we'll miss you.

    Ken H>
  6. DevinT


    Jan 29, 2010
    This sucks. J. Doyle is one of the most talented knife makers I know. Clearly at the very top of those who contribute here.

  7. A.McPherson

    A.McPherson KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jan 27, 2012
    Well Mr. Doyle, I’ll be sorry to see you go! Your knives have certainly inspired me!!
    SBuzek likes this.
  8. Michael Black

    Michael Black

    Jun 29, 2014
    As one of the newer makers around who learned 90% of what I know from this forum, I'm very sorry to see you go! Hopefully you keep up your IG posts so I can follow along with your talent in that way at least!
  9. Tom Lewis

    Tom Lewis

    Feb 24, 2000
    Sorry to see you go, maybe in the future you will decide to come back.
    Some of the problems you mentions would be greatly improved if,
    1. Everyone used their REAL names.
    2. If one gives advice on for instance etching Damascus, they must include a picture of their work to show that they really know what they are talking about.
  10. Wild Bill 1

    Wild Bill 1 Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 7, 2013
    Your impute will be missed. Thank you for years of help. WB
  11. Ian Fifelski

    Ian Fifelski

    Oct 4, 2017
    Very sorry to see you go. You gave me the most solid and useful info and inspiration.:thumbsup:

    This should be stickied and read by every member.
    aarongb likes this.
  12. skillgannon


    Apr 27, 2009
    You will be missed. I hope you can reconsider.
    I'm a newbie maker having only been making knives seriously for about 2 years. This forum has really helped me to get started. It is the internet in a country with free speech so everyone is free to say what they like. I find that if you spend a little time on the forum you can see who really knows what they are doing. It's a shame that experianced makers are feeling pushed out. I can spot someone who knows how to use a tool from across a shop by the way they hold themselves or a tool I think that a few post many times show who really knows what they are doing. There is a difference in tone between someone who understands versus someone who regurgitates hearsay. I realize that filtering out all of that static can be frustrating.
  13. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Sorry to see you leave, John. Hopefully you will just take a break for a while and come back. You are always welcome here.

    And, I do actually make knives and swords, I just don't take a lot of photos.
    Fred.Rowe likes this.
  14. Josh Rider

    Josh Rider Stuff maker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Sep 2, 2014
    I think it speaks tremendously to your character for speaking up about why you’re leaving instead of just walking away. Very upsetting to see a great maker leave. Hopefully you’ll still post in the custom and handmade forum.
    I wish there was a fix for this kind of thing happening.
    dirc, Ian Fifelski and DevinT like this.
  15. dirc


    Jan 31, 2018
    It's sad because this shop talk forum is by far the best forum here in terms of signal-to-noise ratio. I agree with you; there has been more noise recently, but I think most of us know who should be ignored and who has gravitas.

    You have gravitas in abundance, as does anyone with an orange banner (maker/craftsman) under their name. Many times I'll read threads and not bother to comment, since it's obvious who is here to troll and who knows what they're talking about. (I usually block the idiots/trolls) and find the forums much better as a result :)

    Your input is sincerely valued & I hope you reconsider participating after the noisemakers have quieted down
  16. Kevin McGovern

    Kevin McGovern

    Jul 31, 2015
    Honestly, I can think of a few repeat BS spewers who should have been banned long ago. I mean, on a forum like this one, where the main goal is helping each other gain knowledge, repeatedly putting out obviously bogus information should be a ban. If someone can't get the hint that they should listen more than talk after being informed multiple times who needs them? I know usually, the measure for banning is gross misconduct, but why clutter the place up with bs?
    Roxport, DevinT and dirc like this.
  17. drew1972


    Oct 17, 2015
    Sorry to see you go. Love your work and appreciate the things you share.
  18. matthewhoffman


    Nov 19, 2016
    This seems like a good moment to express my tremendous gratification for the experts who take the time to field all sorts of questions, including questions they've probably answered a hundred times before. I know a lot of the new and not-so-new makers on the forum feel the same way. I'm in no way a troll (despite my lack of pictures), but I sure do ask some newbie questions! I'm always grateful when the craftsmen put down their work for a moment and help the next generation of makers--even old farts like me--find their way. Thank you all!
    Michael Black and Ken H> like this.
  19. JTknives

    JTknives Blade Heat Treating www.jarodtodd.com

    Jun 11, 2006
    It deeply saddens me to see you go. We have lost so many good smiths over the years for similar reasons. I still have hope deep down that things will improve for the better. I remember once upon a time here that “pic or it didn’t happen” was the “required” standard so to speak.

    I think one change that would help is to have an “experts corner” so to speek. Maybe not call it that, maybe call it grumpy bladesmiths timeout or some such thing. But have a place for the guys like you where you can post and chat with other skilled makers. Everyone can view the posts but only people with X clearance could post. Or only proven bladesmiths can start threads but anyone can post a response like a question.

    I’m not trying to segregate and make people feal bad. I just think if somthing isn't done soon we will loose all the experanced guys and it will just be a bunch of armchair makers. If there was a dedicated place for them I think we would see a big difference in retention. Plus much higher willingness for them to put in the time for WIP threads.

    But I’m just a humble member who cares about the form so I’m not real sure what the answer is.
  20. Kevin McGovern

    Kevin McGovern

    Jul 31, 2015
    Well said JT. I don't know If it would work here, but I'm in a FB group (the whiteboard one) that will only post your posting once a mod has reviewed it. If you prove to not be a troll, and are positively contributing, you can post at will. They have a bunch of mods. And if you troll, spam or just repeatedly show you are GAWC ( Giving Advice While Clueless) you get booted. I want noobs to ask questions, because I like paying it forward. I got my start here. I agree there are negatives to the format, but overall, it's a net positive in my book. I get stoked seeing people improve.
    Roxport, Michael Black and Ken H> like this.

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