Time required to make a knife and the "how much" question.

Engraving and ornamentation are always going to increase the labor involved in making a good knife. If you feel that work isn't valued by buyers for the time you put into it, make less ornamented knives for sale.
 
Just working some numbers, here..... I'm no mathmagician...

1knife = 3hrs
selling price of 1 knife is $200 (which I think is crazy low)
safe to say 2 knives a day average?
5 days a week
52 weeks/year, minus holidays n such = 44weeks

2x200x5x44=88,000

$88,000 in sales, working 6-8 hours a day with 8weeks holidays would be sweet. I must be overlooking something big.

Rick
 
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Material and other associated costs. $88,000 would simply be revenue, not earnings under that model.
 
Ok, this looks like it can degenerate quite fast so let's not get into a how fast you can make a knife contest.
"Leisurely pace" was not the best way to put things, don't you agree Del? :( I am sure Dimitry deosn't spend more hours than HE needs to on each steps. Just that this his HIS pace. (And pretty much mine too)
For newbies reading this, Delbert's pace is not the norm, more the exception. Don't get discouraged by it. It works for him and that's fine. But most people can't do things that fast. I think that there is no way to compare how fast people work. I mean machining a guard and fitting it in 45 minutes is something I can't even imagine. But does the level of precision I am looking for differ from Del, maybe. Too many variables to compare I think and way too many chances for misunderstandings resulting in things getting ugly.

After this short message from your local "know it all" guy, we return you to the regularly scheduled programming. ;)
 
delbert ealy said:
Dimitry,
Yes, like the first one, but without the engraving and my style is a bit different.
I work in my shop quite efficently, I do have to say that all of my knives for the past 10 years or more have been out of damascus steel.
I don't have pics of a similar knife, however this knife was complete in less than 2 hours excluding time for tempering and the glue to set.

kith_knife.jpg


I am in no way trying to diminish the work of any maker out there, whether they take 3 hours to make a knife, or 3 years, I learned that once you attain proficeincy with the tools you have, you can pick up the pace a bit and still maintain the same level of quality. My focus has always been to make the highest quality knives I can, the speed in which I do certian tasks has increased over time. I have been doing this for almost 25 years now and while I have been full-time for the last 5 years. I have made over 1500 knives in that time. It gets easier after the first thousand.
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Jeeze, Del.... that's only 4 knives a week... and at a generous 4hrs a piece... only 16hrs of work per week.

Pick up the pace, will ya!..... lol.:p


Rick
 
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Dmitry,

It will be hard for you to set a price per knife, based on actual hours spent working. I say this because the knives you make, most always involve the use of intricate techniques; each piece unique in and of itself. I may be wrong but it does not appear that you make batches of knives but instead one creation at a time.
If this is the case I think you have to price each knife not so much on how long it took to make it, but "what" it took to make it. Personally, I think your work is exceptional.

Just my 2cents, Fred
 
Fred is right on. Not "how long" but rather "what" it takes to make.:thumbup: I always have several projects in various states of completion. It takes about 3 weeks for a knife to leave my shop, from first hammerfall to sliding the package across the post office desk. Sometimes it takes longer if I "stall out" and need to wait for inspiration. I'd say I put a solid 8hrs a day 6days a week and ship 2 blades per week. (keep in mind that I also make leather goods and various accoutrements) The math sucks, but somehow I make ends meet and I ABSOLUTELY love what I do. To tell you the truth, I almost feel guilty getting paid to play in my shop all day... almost.:cool:

Rick
 
Rick Marchand said:
Fred is right on. Not "how long" but rather "what" it takes to make.:thumbup: I always have several projects in various states of completion. It takes about 3 weeks for a knife to leave my shop, from first hammerfall to sliding the package across the post office desk. Sometimes it takes longer if I "stall out" and need to wait for inspiration. I'd say I put a solid 8hrs a day 6days a week and ship 2 blades per week. (keep in mind that I also make leather goods and various accoutrements) The math sucks, but somehow I make ends meet and I ABSOLUTELY love what I do. To tell you the truth, I almost feel guilty getting paid to play in my shop all day... almost.:cool:

Rick
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Not many can say; I absolutely love what I do. Priceless! I learned long ago not to confuse money with success.

Fred
 
Thanks Fred.... My wife once asked me, "If you didn't have to worry about money and could do whatever you wanted for the rest of your life, what would it be?" I was stumped for a minute or so, then looked up and said, "Exactly what I do, now.... but with better vacations.".... lol.
 
I didn't think Del was out of line with his original post. Too bad I didn't get to see all of his replies. Delbert makes very nice looking knives and I've seen work comparable to that posted by Dimitri. As I said in my reply, I also think you are spending too much time on certain aspects of your knife making. If you don't feel like you can cut that time because your work will lose integrity or whatever else, then you've just got to up your prices or accept that you won't make a living at making knives.

If you're making a $2000 knife you may be able afford to spend a week on it, if you're making a $500 one you better do it in a day. Most makers don't sell every knife they make, or at least don't get what they planned to out of it. If you're making a living at this, you have to account for "wasted" time on knives that don't bring in any money. That means you either need to price that into your other knives or you need to make sure you have enough time to make "sellers" for that week/month/year.
 
Dmitry.M said:
2 All. thanks for the inputs.
To clarify some things. I count ALL possible expences in the "cost and materials". Including cleaning, electricity, pants wear, spent quench oil, etc.

The reason why I started this thread is very simple. I try to make quality knives. One-of-a-knid ONLY. I put my soul, sweat and blood in each. I finish them the way I feel right. If I ask "appropriate" money - nobody in clear mind will buy it, EVER!
So in order to succeed I need to:
a. Make "money" knives in batches.
b. Make simple(cheap) knives.
c. Forget about fine art.
d. forget about engraving
e. forget about sterling silver, gold, ivory and stones

About forging. Yes, it is possible to heat hotter and to forge a buch at a time faster. It does not sound right to me. Sorry.
Click to expand...


I think what Del and others are saying may be that there are additional options. 'f' might be figure out different ways to do your knife in less time, use less expendables and trim materials costs. End up with the same product, more efficiently.

Best of luck on the job front, Craig
 
miden said:
Rick, would you have a different pricing method for folders?

thanks,

Mike
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I don't make folders, but I would imagine so. Though, I'm sure that once the learning curve of folders has leveled out, another formulated pricing structure could be deduced.

I see that Tai Goo has been using the same sort of pricing formula for much longer than I have. I guess it is nothing new.
 
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