Time to get a gun? Time to get advice.

Dizwolf, lol is that a 'tactical' double barrel?
I'm not sure it's an entirely terrible idea, but it sure does look funny.

Taurus Judge...
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

The box-o-truth suggests .410 out of a pistol is not particularly effective on human size targets. That includes buck, slugs, and of course birdshot.

45 colt is of course pretty potent stuff tho...
 
A Remington 870 with an 18" barrel, a Speedfeed stock, maybe rifle sights and definitely a mount for a tactical light, so you can identify your target in a low-light situation.
 
I live in a county where the sheriff won over the incumbent by promising to reduce the concealed carry license from $20 to $7.50/year - which he did. I carry either a lite weight .38 or .44 Special revolver - everywhere. That includes to the door, grocers, hobby store, discount store, Church, and even while mowing the grass. Besides my 'carry' guns, I keep a 2" Model 10 and a 4" 64, the 10's SS sibling, loaded and ready. You can't beat the simplicity - especially in the dark and during times of stress.

A revolver has a 'safety', albeit part cerebral. Just keep your finger off the trigger unless you intend to use it. Never assume you will 'scare' or 'slightly injure' your assailant - you want to halt the threat to the life of your family and yourself. In Alabama, we have the 'home is your castle' law - you no longer must retreat from a threat, you may stand and defend yourself in your home or automobile. Know your local laws re defending your home - and whether your firearms have to be registered, etc.

If education doesn't help a firearm phobia, consider a strong pepper spray. A gunstore is the best source for that, too.

A great source for a decent used 4" S&W Model 10 or 64 is a security guard trade-in found at a local gunshop or pawn shop. Expect $200-$400. New, they can generally be had - at a discount - around $600 nowadays. For defensive ammo, check with a good gunstore for availability, but the venerable 'FBI load', like the Remington #R38S12 .38 Special +P 158gr LHPSWC, is a known stopper. Heck, for an old gun or the recoil shy, the 148gr wadcutter 'target load' is darned effective, too. A revolver, as has been said, is intuitive to operate.

Stainz
 
But I've been thinking. I certainly don't want to shoot anybody,

Very few people do. But if you're considering buying a gun, one of the things you need to think about is if you're capable of pulling the trigger. If someone were threatening the lives of yourself or your loved ones, could you do it? If you couldn't pull the trigger even then, you probably shouldn't own a gun.

nor do I want somebody to grab my gun and shoot me, or shoot me because I pull out my gun.

These are foolish scenarios put forward by the dishonest to deter the honest from owning guns. Seems they worked on you, but you may be waking up. Good for you.

But just letting the bad guy know you have one seems a possible deterrent.

Maybe. But one of the things you have to learn is that a gun isn't a magic wand, where people will automatically do whatever you say if you wave it around.

Is getting a gun as bad an idea as I've thought it is my entire life?
This is the big question. I'll answer you with a question. Is getting a fire extinguisher as bad an idea as I've thought it is my entire life?

Silly, no? A gun is a tool, not an evil spirit in tangible form. The *only* people for whom owning a gun is a bad idea are criminals (bad idea for the rest of us, but the damn criminals will do it anyway- they're *criminals*) and the terminally irresponsible. You seem to be neither.

But the terminally irresponsible shouldn't be doing a lot of things, like owning a dog, or driving a car, or having kids... Has nothing to do with guns.

There is a shooting range not far away, and they offer lessons. Not cheap, though, and I don't know if I want to ask them for advice on a weapon. They sell guns, but I thought I'd ask you guys first.
Good for you, get familiar with the place. If you do decide to join the ranks of responsible gun owners, you're going to need practice. Shooting is a skill, and shooting accurately is a difficult one that requires much practice to acquire. Oh, and there's a little known secret you're about to find out for yourself- shooting is *fun*.
 
Last edited:
Being a Canadian I think I have a unique perspective. I personally say don't get a gun. Even though it could potentially prove useful in those very rare situations, there is much more probability of it harming you more than helping. What if your kids get into it? what if you get freaked out by an innocent person. Many people die each year due to accidents with firearms. The one problem wit guns is that guns breed more guns. I have never felt the need to carry a gun simply because little people carry guns here. If every second joe had one here id probably want one as well.

Many people on these forums are very pro gun and thats cool, but I think its important to get the message from the not so progun guy. Even though I dont care for guns myself, I don't feel it is my right to say others can't use them or collect them. Just like id hate it if people told me I couldnt use my knives:D. Do some research and find out what is right for you.

If you do decide to get one, please get some training too:)

Well, if we're going to be concerned about the tool harming us or our kids then we should NOT buy or install a swimming pool. THese are far more deadly to children than any firearm ever has been....

BAN THE POOLS!
 
Not an auto fan myself- I love pump guns, but a police shootout comes to mind in which an officers arm was disabled & he couldn't work his pump gun, & was killed. 1. Please don't ask me which shootout it was, because it came up in conversation with a local trainer/instructor, & I can't remember the whole story....

...I'm sitting here with a Glock on my hip, & a .38 on my ankle. 2. You can't easily travel with a shotgun & stay in hotel rooms.


1. You may be thinking of another gunfight entirely, but FBI SA Ed Mireles was shot thru the left forearm with a Mini-14 during the Miami Shootout rendering that arm "hors de combat", however he stayed in the fight and fired 4 or 5 rounds of 00Buck single-handed and ended up finishing the fight at point-blank range with his 3" S&W M13...:thumbup:

2. I travel extensively for work and exclusively by motor vehicle. Here in Canada I can't travel with a handgun other than to shooting competitons, however I am never without my 14" 870 stuffed full of 00Buck with slugs on stand-by :cool:

Glad to see that you care enough for your family to take on the responsibility of going armed at all times.
 
Dizwolf, lol is that a 'tactical' double barrel?
I'm not sure it's an entirely terrible idea, but it sure does look funny.

It's never a bad idea to be able to see what you're shooting. That said the idea of any kind of optics on top of a double barrel and a full rail on the bottom is a -bit- much for me. Logically it's probably a good idea. But I'd have to hide that thing so well from my friends for fear of laughing, that I'd never get to it when needed. At a price point of around 400-500 dollars, It crushes the low cost advantage of 200-300$ doubles.
 
I haven't read the thread just the OP. I got my first carry permit in 1989 after a neighbor was beaten to death. At that point I had been shooting since age 6 and hand gunning avidly since age 16.

Do not buy a handgun unless you are committed to the prospect of taking a life in defense of your own. Settle the moral question for yourself first or it will just create lethal hesitation when faced with a lethal force encounter. If you arrive at the conclusion that you can't take a life then get yourself a non-lethal weapon and learn how to use it. I used to work in a gunshop and we steered plenty of people to our full line of pepper spray when they came in looking for a gun to "scare people" with.

If you buy a firearm then get some training. Buying a gun does not make you safe, it makes you armed and that is a dangerous way to be if you don't know what you're doing with your weapon.

I know many first time handgun buyers that remain in a perpetual state of fear of their handgun. Don't let that happen. Practice enough that you are fully confident to have a fully loaded handgun with you, near you, or on you. It takes discipline to develop that level of competence. Respect the weapon and what it can do but don't live in fear of it.

Mac
 
Some very good advice & common elements to many posts. But, believe what I do, not what I say: Remington 870 12ga with 20" barrel loaded w/#1 buckshot is always next to my bed. S&W .357 revolver is always within reach in my vehicle loaded w/.357 hollow points. We live in the country so a scoped Ruger 10/22 sits within reach of the back door (coyotes). Military training for all of the above & shoot at least once a month.
I live in an enlightened state (Florida) and can defend myself and my home. If you have had that basic right taken from you remember it at the polls. Take advantage of NRA training.
 
Some very good advice & common elements to many posts. But, believe what I do, not what I say: Remington 870 12ga with 20" barrel loaded w/#1 buckshot is always next to my bed. S&W .357 revolver is always within reach in my vehicle loaded w/.357 hollow points. We live in the country so a scoped Ruger 10/22 sits within reach of the back door (coyotes). Military training for all of the above & shoot at least once a month.
I live in an enlightened state (Florida) and can defend myself and my home. If you have had that basic right taken from you remember it at the polls. Take advantage of NRA training.

What part of FL? I live in north eastern FL.
 
I live in a very nice, safe neighborhood with little crime. But this afternoon some creep knocked on my neighbor's door and mumbled something about did my neighbor want him to do odd jobs for him. My neighbor is smart and knew something was up...perhaps it was that the guy was wearing a hoodie in 90 degree weather, or perhaps it was the butt of a gun sticking out his waistband. Neighbor also had a gun, and when he showed it to the creep and suggested he leave right away, the would-be robber (or worse) did just that. Police came, but I don't know the outcome.

Anyway, I've never had a gun, never even fired one unless you count the shooting arcade at Disneyland, and that was 40 years ago. But I've been thinking. I certainly don't want to shoot anybody, nor do I want somebody to grab my gun and shoot me, or shoot me because I pull out my gun. But just letting the bad guy know you have one seems a possible deterrent.

Any suggestions on an inexpensive handgun? Remember, I know absolutely nothing about guns. Any recommendations on reading up on the subject of "self defense?" Is getting a gun as bad an idea as I've thought it is my entire life?

There is a shooting range not far away, and they offer lessons. Not cheap, though, and I don't know if I want to ask them for advice on a weapon. They sell guns, but I thought I'd ask you guys first.

I somehow don't think my RC-3 is going to do much to help me if such a situation happens to me.

Thanks for your advice.

Dennis

Dennis,

If I were in your position I would take a couple "gun safety" classes and visit a local range to try out different set ups to feel what's comfortable. With limited shooting experience I would stick with a smaller caliber revolver like a .38 but it ultimatly depends on what you're most comfortable with.

A standard "6 shooter" style revolver is typically more user friendly for new shooters. You could always go the rifle or shotgun route but I like to have something I can hold discreetly in case the person knocking on the door at 2am is my mother in law or something like that haha. I can just slip it in my pocket and not scare the crap out of a non gun person.

Let us know why you en up doing!

Oh and there's always a pit bull!
 
Well, if we're going to be concerned about the tool harming us or our kids then we should NOT buy or install a swimming pool. THese are far more deadly to children than any firearm ever has been....

BAN THE POOLS!

Never said anything about banning guns. Its just something to consider. Statistics don't look good from a protection point of view. But I agree, swimming pools are a stupid idea if you have little kids wondering around unless your really careful...which im not so I wouldnt have a pool with a youngin. Lucky I dont have kids....sadly I dont have the money for a swimming pool haha
 
I'm Canadian as well, and I say you are quite wrong about a number of things in this post.
There is not a large probability of the gun being a cause of harm to you, unless you are an idiot. Don't be an idiot; if one is an idiot, then just about any device will cause harm(not saying YOU are an idiot).
Kids should not be a factor, as the gun ought to be locked up when not in use(remember those safe storage laws we have in Canada SPECIFICALLY to address this issue?). Use a combination safe and don't give your kids the combination.
If you think there aren't quite a few people carrying guns(unlawfully), you are woefully mistaken. I'm not worried about said folks, but I don't stck my head in the sand and pretend they aren't there, because they ARE.
I'm afraid you have bought into the anti-gun propaganda which goes under the guise of safety awareness.
Use your own brain, get the evidence, and THEN make up your mind. I don't think you've done that, judging by the jingoistic nature of what you wrote.

A few things to say about this. First off, if you pull a gun on someone and they are carrying, they are also likely to pull on you. You may be quicker but you may not. One or two dead/injured people will result. Perhaps they would have killed you anyways but more likely you would have lost something like a sterio and perhaps some pride but you would have your life.

If you pull on a group of people and they carry you will almost certianly be dead and if your lucky you will take one guy out.

Third scenerio is they are just nuts and you open your door and they just kill you and then steal or do what they want. Your gun most likely wont do anything.

Fourth scenerio: they have a knife or other weapon. In this case you will own them but have a dead guy on your hands. This could lead to legal troubles or at least a bloody mess.

IMO, a gun just leads to more trouble and I feel most situations can be avoided by being smart and reading people well.

I agree with you that lots of people are idiots. And idiots with guns is even more dangerous. People make mistakes, leave safes open etc. If you want a gun for self defense, its kind of useless if its in a safe so people might hide it in a quick to get location. If they carry it on them, well maybe they leave their piece on the floor with their pants. You never know. I don't know the poster so I don't know his habits. Guns carry more danger than a lot of tools and I think people should really be aware of the risks. That being said I think riding a motorcycle is a lot more dangerous. In fact, just driving a car is :D.

I personally don't mind guns, not a huge collector but id like to shoot one sometime just for fun. I think practice shooting looks like great fun. Im just not into the whole self-defense with weapons thing. But that being said, i also live in a nice safe area. I live in a very different world than many other people in dangerous areas. People have different needs and such. But where I live, i think a gun presents much more dangers than benefits:)
 
As a gun-owning Canadian I raise the BS flag here. Your assertion that people having guns just breeds more guns is provably false as is your assertion that there are "many accidents with guns each year" - the majority of gun deaths in Canada are either suicides or criminal on criminal shootings. Do you honestly think that the law-abiding citizen not having a firearm is going to have any bearing whatsoever on this other than depriving him of a measure of safety???

I grew up with a house full of guns and my house is full of guns. The secret to doing this is not to attempt to childproof your guns but instead to gunproof your children - it's all about training and mindset. We have an air rifle range in our back yard that the neighborhood kids love to use (under supervision and with parental consent - several of the parents have gotten into shooting because of this). My 16 year old shoots IPSC and has for 4 years. My 13 year old starts this fall and both have been hunting since the age of 12, and I had each of them in the treestand on opening day of deer season when they were 5. They both shoot biathlon and service rifle competition and both are mature well-rounded kids. My wife shoots and hunts right along with the boys and it makes for some great family time - the only one in our house who doesn't shoot is the dog and when she sees the gun cases come out she gets so excited that she about wets herself...

My wife and kids?? They "get it" - if only the libtards living in Toronto and the big urban centers who want to ban everything that makes them flinch could do the same.

blake

What I find interesting is that you get so insulted and up in arms when people share a different opinion than you. Whether you agree or not, guns do kill people and many accidents do occur. I personally don't care if you carry a gun. I also dont care if you carry 15 knives on you. Its really up to you. I think carrying a gun in your house pretty much useless unless your a hunter or love target shooting. If its purly for self defense, I don't see a point.

As for the comment people carrying guns breeding more people carrying guns I think its very true. Take it from this stand point. If peope se people using or having anything they tend to copy. Look at the ipod. Those things breed like bloody rabits. If people think guns look cool to carry around they may just do that. If people think every punk has a un, they may feel the need to carry as well. I probably would carry if I saw guns on trash lowlifes.

Again, I have no problem wit people liking guns or collecting them I just think its good to be safe with em. I remeber reading a post here about some kid with guns all over his room and some punk broke into his house. He was lucky that the punk didnt bother taking his gns and perhaps using them--it cold have ended really bad:(--just one exampl from here on the forums
 
I keep reading "I heard..." or "It seems to me..." - blah, blah.

Fact, there are more firearms in honest American citizen's hands than anytime in history.

Fact, FBI statistics show violent crime (and firearm deaths) are DOWN lower than in many, many years.

In the USA the 2nd Amendment still gives you the RIGHT to own and defend your life with a firearm - period!
 
Dennis,

Oh and there's always a pit bull!

We do have a Jack Russell terrier and a Pomeranian. The Pom thinks she's a pit bull, and the Jack Russell thinks he's a person. Between the two of them, there's plenty of yapping when they hear a noise outside or someone at the door.

As for me, I'm going to the gun shop to get pepper spray and talk to them. There's a lot to think about in making this decision.
 
Thalestin,
I don't anticipate anything that anybody can say will have any effect on your mindset, but I'll just lay the following out for you should some part of you be interested in considering:

The statistically most dangerous places in the U.S. also happen to be the places where it is almost entirely impossible to carry a gun, or to legally defend yourself in any way. Some people would say that this obviously means that more guns equals less crime, but in reality it's a good deal more complicated than that. The truth is, crime and violence thrive in places where people refuse to take responsibility for their own well being and that of the community. Less than two weeks ago in New York, a woman was beaten badly in public outside of a restaurant and nobody helped her--people didn't quite stand and watch, instead they closed the blinds on the windows because the spectacle was upsetting. This is not uncommon in urban areas, as people in high-population areas have grown accustomed to "minding their own business" and taken it to the level of religious dedication in order to have some semblance of privacy. While understandable, it's hardly laudable when that leads to an expectation that "somebody else will take care of it" and a belief that "it's not my responsibility to intervene" or "it won't do any good anyway." Well, places and environments where nobody is willing to be responsible are breeding grounds for predatory behavior. Responsibility can mean armed intervention, it can mean unarmed intervention, it can mean jumping in and trying to save somebody who's drowning, it can mean sacrificing a shirt to make a tourniquet, it can mean getting up from your meal and helping somebody who is choking. Unfortunately, there are many people who won't do these things because they're difficult or dangerous or might be inconvenient---but they'll be sure to take streaming video of what's happening and sell it to the news. And besides, somebody else is probably going to take care of it, so why should they bother? That kind of passive, impotent, don't give a shit thinking is what leads to violence, crime and social decline, and it's precisely what you're advocating as far as I can tell. I'm sure you won't think so, but I also doubt Elizabeth Taylor ever thought she was vain.

Police can not protect you any more than firemen can stop your house from catching on fire, because they can not be everywhere at once. According to 2006 numbers (most recent I have) there were approximately 800,000 professional law enforcement officials in the U.S., both federal and civil. This works out to one for every 375 people. If you come under attack, you have one chance in 375 that there's a cop close enough to help you. If you were surrounded by people who exhibit the same kind of, "well it probably won't actually help so I won't bother" kind of thinking that you're advocating here, you also have a zero chance that one of those other 373 people (excluding yourself and the cop) are going to do anything.

Of course there are no guarantees, no matter what you do. Thousands of people are killed in auto accidents each year, despite having worn their seat belts. Thousands die of heart-related illnesses which developed despite watching what they eat and exercising. Millions of homes are broken into despite being locked. But to assume that, given those facts, there's just no purpose in wearing your seat belt, exercising or locking your doors is a defeatist attitude that extends beyond being pitiable and enters patheticism. You'll never have a guarantee, but you can stack the deck in your favor as much as possible.

People who are unarmed have less chance of surviving a violent attack than people who are armed. People traveling in groups are less likely to be assaulted than individuals walking alone. The greater the likelihood of negative consequences, the lesser the likelihood that somebody will attempt to victimize you. It doesn't extend only to people, either. Buck deer (the ones with antlers) are not the chosen targets of mountain lions when there are does around. And when deterrence doesn't work, you do the best you can. You seem to have decided that you're going to lose any fight you enter into just as a matter of course, and I'm sure you're probably right. People who give up seldom win.

I know you said you live in a safe community, and I'm glad---you should be glad that there are those around you to take their responsibilities as enforcers of the public good more seriously, because it simply doesn't happen by accident.

I'm not mad at you, I don't think I have a right to tell you what to believe, but I'm telling you now that the attitude you're putting forth here is not going to find many adherents. There was a study some years ago that showed that women who didn't resist rape often survived the ordeal with fewer injuries than women who did (excluding the ones whose rapists intended from the beginning to kill them and eliminate the witness, of course). From this, a few people I'm sure were swayed that the best thing to do is to submit. I mean, what is self respect next to some bruises? Another study from the 1980s suggested the same in terms of sexual assaults in prison--that those who resisted faired worse. Well, it may be true, and if you and I ever ended up in prison, you're entirely welcome to grease up your anus and spread the cheeks in friendly invitation to gain points with the new community----I'll be the newbie in the corner with a shiv.
 
Last edited:
Blake-
I didn't think it was that shootout he was talking about- it was specifically a discussion on the merits of pumps vs autos. I've been wrong a couple of times in the distant past though, so I suppose anythings possible ;)
Yes, true, you can travel with long guns. I guess there are a few long gun cases these days that are discreet enough that no one would know but those of us "in the know". Maybe I need one soon just for hotel stays. I generally won't take a long gun if I have to stay in a hotel, because I don't want to leave it in the truck, and I don't have an innocuous enough case- and I personally think handguns are better suited to close quarters defense. I do frequently take my beater 30-30 on road trips if I'm not staying in a hotel- I do love having more power on tap when I can (more easily) :)
I wish I had a 14' 870 :(
 
Last edited:
Was one of my reasons for a double. 20 inch barrels make it 35 inch overall. That tucks diagonal in a large suitcase
 
Back
Top