Time to get a gun? Time to get advice.

This thread is quickly headed into the "overwhelming" category. There is so much here to consider.

I live in San Diego. I have no idea what the gun laws are in California, but as I mentioned, there's a gun store/firing range a couple of miles away, and I think I'll be stopping in there soon. I haven't mentioned yet that for a couple of years I've wanted to go to the range to target practice with a friend whose father left her a bunch of handguns (he was a collector). It hasn't happened yet.

I really like the idea of pepper spray for an interim measure.

Many thanks again for the range of opinions.
 
dartfrogger said:
Is getting a gun as bad an idea as I've thought it is my entire life?
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Well, that depends entirely on you. If you're the sort of person to stick your thumb in your eye when you tie your shoes, then maybe having a gun isn't a good idea. The fact you ask this question is a huge red flag to me, since you not only have to do a chance of mindset but you'll also need to embrace a culture that believes in gun ownership and owns and operates guns responsibly.

You saw a neighbor successfully use the threat of having a firearm against a possible attacker. He didn't have to use it, or even know how to use it. It's sort of like having a mock up of a camera at a business with a little red light and signs posted that say the place is under surveillance, but it's all a sham. Might as well get a toy gun and wear it under your belt when you answer the door. Of course, if you're ever forced to really defend yourself you'll be shit-out-of-luck, but maybe you won't have to. Lots of people go their entire lives without owning a gun and they do just fine.

However, if you have searched your heart and believe that owning a real gun is for you, then the first thing you need to do is both educate yourself about guns and pursue training in using one. That means taking a gun safety course, and then maybe visiting a range that has a large inventory of guns you can rent and shoot, so you'll know what to buy. Then invest time and money actually shooting your gun and take courses from someone who can actually show you how to defend yourself with one.

But think hard. You don't do anyone any favors by buying a gun, squeezing a box of rounds through it at the range, then leaving it in your bedroom end-table drawer to be forgotten for years until you really need it. Hope you remember how to take the safety off by then.
 
Dorkhedeos said:
Im assuming youve never been broken into. An untrained person with a gun is extremely dangerous especially when they are under stress and on edge. What if that intruder wasnt really an intruder and he fires because he was spooked? Nobody wants to be responsible for somebodys death, especially when they didnt really need to die.

If you go seeking your intruder and he knows you have a gun, he knows to either avoid you or wait for you to come round the corner. If he wasnt alone and you end up firing a round, that just alerted his partner that something is going on and he will know your location and that you are armed. A baton or an axe on the other hand will be quiet, it might even make it sound like the guy you hit tripped and fell. Who wants to mess around with a maniac with an axe? :D

The choice of defense also depends on local laws. As far as i know, where im from in CA, it is really hard to get away with shooting somebody. If you shoot somebody that was unarmed or didnt cause an immediate threat to you or anybody in your house, you will go to jail for a very long time as well as get sued.

Im not going to get into an argument over this because there are just too many what ifs.
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Wow.

I would think that it would be smart not to get into this argument because you are wrong.

So you think that you are going to be able to get out of bed, scan the house, select the intruder that you are going to silently attack first, dispatch him without any noise, then move on to robber/rapist/killer #2 while he stands there calmly while you swing an AXE into him?

If it is a justified killing, do you really think that an axe is going to look better than a shotgun (which there pretty much is a consensus on as an excellent home defense tool) to a jury? "Would the defendant please explain why he keeps an axe at bedside?"

If a person is too afraid of guns to not trust themselves against negligent discharge, I somehow wonder how this person is going to get the balls to attack someone with an axe. Which, by the way, is not going to be silent...real life people do not die instantly, fall to the ground, flash, and disappear. It is going to be very messy, very graphic, and unless you sneak up and bury it in a skull, there is probably going to be some bloodcurdling screams.

As long as you are bringing a proverbial knife to a gunfight...why the hell not use a sword? Quicker than an axe and made to kill people. Perfect.

With all due respect of course.

I will grant you that you are in CA. I have visited there. I have no need or urge to ever go back. Ever. Living in that communist hellhole is not really that valid of an excuse though, with Uhaul and Ryder rates so reasonable.



Of course I think that non-gun people should be forced to wear signs in public that say "Human Shield". If they do not give a damned about their own security, then hell...go ahead and get in front of me. I'm big. I need all the cover I can get.
 
shangchi108 said:
Well, that depends entirely on you. If you're the sort of person to stick your thumb in your eye when you tie your shoes, then maybe having a gun isn't a good idea.
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I like this.
I think I'll try and use it sometime.:)
 
Tripton said:
Wow.

...
while you swing an AXE into him?

...
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Not too beat the horse anymore because I think this has been addressed adequately, but the idea of meeting an intruder with an axe or sword, where that is a pre-planned home invasion defense strategy, reminds me of the scene in the 1st Indiana Jones movie where Harrison Ford shoots the sword-wielding attacker. Why anybody would PLAN to use an axe, when they could have PLANNED to use a gun, is beyond me, for the reasons previously stated by others (effectiveness, lethal force is lethal force, etc).

But my other reaction was, have you ever tried to swing an axe/sword/baseball bat, etc indoors ? In a hallway, entryway, while standing next to a wall, possibly with other obstructions, or possibly with bystanders around ? Not that an axe won't do a lot of damage if you connect with the attacker (and you better practice if this is your weapon of choice, as with any other tool), but you might make him die laughing if your swing gets short-circuited by the wall you were closer to than you thought, or the coat on the peg by the door, or whatever.
 
Just to piss you guys off!!!!:D

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bal-md.samurai16sep16,0,114199.story

Sword-wielding Hopkins student kills intruder

The Johns Hopkins University undergraduate didn't run. He didn't call the police. He grabbed his samurai sword.

With the 3- to 5-foot-long, razor-sharp weapon in hand, police say, Pontolillo crept toward the noise. He noticed a side door in the garage had been pried open. When a man inside lunged at him, police say, the confrontation was fatal for the attacker.
 
dogrunner said:
Not too beat the horse anymore because I think this has been addressed adequately, but the idea of meeting an intruder with an axe or sword, where that is a pre-planned home invasion defense strategy, reminds me of the scene in the 1st Indiana Jones movie where Harrison Ford shoots the sword-wielding attacker. Why anybody would PLAN to use an axe, when they could have PLANNED to use a gun, is beyond me, for the reasons previously stated by others (effectiveness, lethal force is lethal force, etc).
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This guy might have some pointers :D

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/college_student_kills_intruder_with_klemnWD6Jipli57iRhOZhL

(Sorry if it was already posted in this thread but didnt see it)

EDIT: @rmc85 - wow posting the same story at the same time - great minds... ;)
 
Tripton said:
I will grant you that you are in CA. I have visited there. I have no need or urge to ever go back. Ever. Living in that communist hellhole is not really that valid of an excuse though, with Uhaul and Ryder rates so reasonable.
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I live in the People's Republic of New York, and even I couldn't stand being in California. I hear NorCal isnt as bad, but the south.... People looked at me like I was some kind of deranged sicko. I was confused as to how they knew, but then I realized it was just because I had the audacity to be smoking in public.

Back on gun usage, what is everyone's feelings on automatic vs pump shotguns? I don't take reliability into account on this. It's usually the first thing I hear in this discussion, and it's the least valid. Keep your auto well maintained, and shoot the proper loads. That said, the increased weight, required maintenance, and increased tendency to rapid fire are valid arguments against. As far as jamming goes, in my experience it's about as rare as a hang-fire. The only downside for pumps that I see are slower follow-up shots, and the small risk of short stroking. Both of which can be minimized with regular practice.
 
Dizwolf said:
I live in the People's Republic of New York, and even I couldn't stand being in California. I hear NorCal isnt as bad, but the south.... People looked at me like I was some kind of deranged sicko. I was confused as to how they knew, but then I realized it was just because I had the audacity to be smoking in public.

Back on gun usage, what is everyone's feelings on automatic vs pump shotguns? I don't take reliability into account on this. It's usually the first thing I hear in this discussion, and it's the least valid. Keep your auto well maintained, and shoot the proper loads. That said, the increased weight, required maintenance, and increased tendency to rapid fire are valid arguments against. As far as jamming goes, in my experience it's about as rare as a hang-fire. The only downside for pumps that I see are slower follow-up shots, and the small risk of short stroking. Both of which can be minimized with regular practice.
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I have a number of shotguns and the 870 stays by the bed at night.

If you have a semi-auto that never jams your lucky. I have seen many, many, many more semi-autos jam than a pump. I've had an action arm on my Franchi 612vs break and the gun went down. One of my best friends took his Benelli Super Black Eagle bird hunting in North Dakota and it ran like crap because of the cold weather. I've seen pump guns fail too but its not nearly as often.

A gun is a mechanical device and the more moving parts you have the more likely it is to fail at some point. If you've seen as many hang fires as you have jams then you need to get out and shoot more often. If you shoot a gun enough parts will wear out and you will have a failure.

No one should ever depend on just ONE gun. Always remember Murphy's law....
 
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rmc85 said:
A gun is a mechanical device and the more moving parts you have the more likely it is to fail at some point. If you've seen as many hang fires as you have jams then you need to get out and shoot more often. If you shoot a gun enough parts will wear out and you will have a failure.

No one should ever depend on just ONE gun. Always remember Murphy's law....
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Very much agreed. Never can have too much shooting. I should have said "under normal circumstances I see as many jams" In prolonged shooting, I've seen a lot of dirty/dry gun jams. I don't shoot as often as I used to, a fact that saddens my lazy ass. However when I did, I tried to replace most of the wear parts before failure.

I've currently got a few guns laying around the house. Remington 1100, 11-87, Ithaca double, single barrels, and a Winchester single barrel saw'd down to 18.5". To be honest, when it comes right down to it, the simplicity and light weight of the break actions makes them my fav for HD. I need to find a good, short double to keep around.

Edit: found one i think I'm liking. http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/SPR_models/SPR220_side-by-side_specs.asp Need to geto the shop and check one out. Nice little 20 inch double. mmmm. Now, do I get it with hammers, or without?
 
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Get proper firearm training or there could be casulties in your own home. Afterwards go to the range, shoot some of the guns they have (revolver). Take a self defense class ie. Japanese Jiu Jitsu. Be prepared to tear some burglar ass.
 
rmc85 said:
I have a number of shotguns and the 870 stays by the bed at night.

If you have a semi-auto that never jams your lucky. I have seen many, many, many more semi-autos jam that a pump. I've had a action arm on my Franchi 612 vs break and the gun went down. One of my best friends took his Benelli Super Black Eagle bird hunting in North Dakota and its ran like crap because of the cold weather. I've seen pump guns fail too but its not nearly as often.

A gun is a mechanical device and the more moving parts you have the more likely it is to fail at some point. If you've seen as many hang fires as you have jams then you need to get out and shoot more often. If you shoot a gun enough parts will wear out and you will have a failure.

No one should ever depend on just ONE gun. Always remember Murphy's law....
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+1 shotgun rarely fails. Automatic will all jam time to time. Whatever you do invert in trigger lock or safe if you have kids.Or if you have an intruder in your house so they can't use them. Spend time at the range. But imo a self defence class seems good but for it to work you need constant training and sparring. If that's not you save your $$ for the range :)
 
Not an auto fan myself- I love pump guns, but a police shootout comes to mind in which an officers arm was disabled & he couldn't work his pump gun, & was killed. Please don't ask me which shootout it was, because it came up in conversation with a local trainer/instructor, & I can't remember the whole story.
To the OP... Medium framed .357 is my advice to everyone that asks me what you've asked. Scatter guns just aren't what most people that are reasonably well versed in home defense recommend- for many reasons. Great for an assault- not so much for defense when your the one that's been surprised. S&W 686 or Ruger GP100 gets top billing in my book. Not hard to get proficient with. I took my neighbor out 4 months ago to learn a little bit because he'd never touched a gun before, & he'd applied to our local dept. He knew nothing. After one outing with me, & now a little training with the dept, he's gotten pretty good at his handling skills. It's not rocket science- it's just training. I've read a ton of good advise here. Well- maybe not the part about bringing an ax to a gunfight ;)
Re-read it, & go talk to someone involved in training. Read a book or two on the subject. There's some good ones out there geared toward people just learning that touch on everything. You probably need to read a bit on the subject to find out if it's a responsability you want to take on. It is quite a responsability- but then, you have a responsability to protect your family also. No one else will be there to do it.

I write this on my blackberry as I sit watching my 4 year old angel sleep next to me in a hotel room 4 hours from home... and some freak got a little too friendly as we were walking to our room earlier. No way in hell I'd let chance determine her safety- that's why I'm sitting here with a Glock on my hip, & a .38 on my ankle. You can't easily travel with a shotgun & stay in hotel rooms.
 
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1581zebra said:
You can't easily travel with a shotgun & stay in hotel rooms.
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Break actions fit in luggage :) I'm looking at a stoeger now.
Please laugh at one gun they're making now with me:

double-defense-tm.jpg


i got a good 15 minutes laugh out of that
 
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Buy a Taurus Judge.
It is a handgun that you can carry under most circumstances, (certainly around your house, like the guy in your story).
It will chamber both 410 shotgun shells and 45 "long Colt" ammo.
You can choose bird shot for the 410 rounds (to frighten or cause relatively minor damage) or buckshot (which is effectively 4 pellets of 32 caliber emitted in a spreading pattern) or anything in between.
You have the option to deter or deaden the target.
And you needn't be the sharpshooter under maximum stress.
And then are the chambers with the 45 long Colts...serious stuff!
The price is right and the gun is one of the most useful around.
That said...take some gun safety courses and be careful out there.
 
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