Timed for a Pro-Grip update - Need input

I liked the original hunter (my first spydie!). Great utility design. I think the Pro-whatever preserves good qualities there. The tip is especially good. People who don't dream about knives tend to be hard on tips, and the Progrip point is pretty bulletproof.

VG10 - good. I doubt that you'll find anyone on this forum who wants crummier steel. Unless you go to some non-stainless carbon that would be cheaper, easier to sharpen, and hold a better edge. THAT would be innovative! :eek:

Size increase - I don't really think it's the best idea. 3" puts you in the carry range for most people, both legally and with respect to their pockets. Also, the Impala exists for those who want something larger. I think there's too much overlap there to support a bigger, more expensive Progrip.

Handle - I'd be happy with all-FRN or all-stainless. You could go the Assist route (embedded whistle) and embed a compass in a FRN handle, but that might be a little hokey. (Hmmm.....would a compass even work in a knife handle? Maybe if the distribution of metal was extremely uniform, or the steel was extremely non-magnetic. Scratch that one off to insanity)

Personally, I'd slap a flat-ground, VG-10 ProGrip blade in a Native III-style handle (that sort of FRN pattern, not necessarily the same handle profile), sell it on the street for about $50, and call it good.
 
Originally posted by Tohatchi NM
Size increase - I don't really think it's the best idea. 3" puts you in the carry range for most people, both legally and with respect to their pockets. Also, the Impala exists for those who want something larger. I think there's too much overlap there to support a bigger, more expensive Progrip.
Click to expand...

Personally I believe a larger pro-grip would kick the Impalas ass. :D
 
Hmmm.....interesting point. I haven't handled an Impala, so I don't know who would win. Visually, I think I do like the Progrip blade shape better, and I think it has awesome utility.

Regardless, I think one or the other would have to go, unless the Impala w/gut hook has a respectable market share.

:)
 
I loved everything about the Progrip except for the clip material. A metal one that was reversable would be a great improvement. I would be one of the first in line to pick up that one.. :D
 
This would do well to fill the gap left by the late, lamented Wegner. Flat grind & G-10? Absolutely!
 
i agree with colored g-10 handles (or perhaps even inserts-with a darker steel for the main handle parts). think 3.5-3.75" is a great idea! also PE would be good-i would probably end up doing a lot of food prep/etc if i had one.
 
I have the Pro Grip in FRN. This is really a great little knife. I really like the blade design. It has that Wegner shape. If you made the blade a little longer it would be fine as long as it was plain edge. I also like that it is a lock back. That makes it simple and reliable. I like the plastic clip and kraton inserts as I carry this knife on my running shorts but for most carry I can see that you would want a regular metal clip (tip up) with G-10 or FRN handles. I have come to appreciate the sharp edges of the the hole. If you go on Ebay you will find that plain edge versions of the Wegner are snapped up quickly. I never even see Wegner Juniors anymore!
 
Some great input, thanx much. I appreciate having an "ELU design team" to reflect off of.

Thoughts to share;

We're moving forward with the Wegner design (Lynx, Ocelot, Trakk'r) probably "Ocelot". FRN, 3D shape, pugs. This is a very good design in the 3" - 3.25" range, lockback, priced well, and versatile enough to be an EDC.

I think the Impala is very specialized and appeals to the "hunter" more specifically.

This leaves a hole for the 3.5 inch tough refined "Hunter/EDC" model.

The design has a "finger choil". The design is full flat grind. VG-10 is an exellent steel for hunters or every day carry. The design has a 14mm hole like the Millie/Rescues.

I Would like to dig deeper into the concept of G10 vs stainless frame with an insert. My thought was a stainles frame like the C13, but thinner, with a formed 3D kraton insert (with bi-directional texture). Most of you seem to prefer a flat G-10 scale. We wouldn't make a formed FRN handle until the design proved itself.

Why the flat G-10 over the formed Kraton insert?

And I need more input on color. It's been touched on, with some good points.

I need more input on clips.

Thanx for the help.

sal
 
Thoughts on colour:

1. The knife is too large for colour to make it sheeple friendly.

2. At the end of the day, I suspect most ELU will want black, esp. on a 'tactical' of this size.

3. For hunters, blaze orange might be a good alt. colour, made in smaller numbers with targetted distribution.

Thoughts on handle material:

1. Weight is an argument for G10, and against steel w/inserts, esp. given the size of the knife.

2. Simplicity of design likewise favours G10.

3. G10 also has broader appeal with the 'tactical' knife buyer, given that you are aiming at that market as much as or more than the hunters market.

My alternative suggestion to steel w/inserts is aluminum w/inserts like the old Civilians; if you really wanted a metal handle with inserts. This eliminates the weight issue for a knife in the 3.75" blade class. The other advantage to aluminum with inserts is that via anodizing it is easy to experiment with colours - black for general ELU, other colours for specialized uses.

My last thought on aluminum with inserts is that it has been shown popular with the 'tactical' ELU through usage by Microtech and MOD, and of course before them the aluminum Civilians. So there a proven acceptance factor, even if not as widely used as G10 in the market.
 
I like the idea of a colored handle that will be easy to see if the knife is dropped or set down in the woods. I'm sure quite a few knives sit in the woods "lost" after being set down after skinning deer or cleaning fish. On the other hand, it's a fine line between a color that will be easily recognized and one that is too "bright" and will turn people off for daily carry.

I prefer G-10 handles. I love the full flat grind. Can't beat that.
 
Regarding G-10:

When knife-knuts read G-10, they immediately think durability. It's tough, grippy (if patterned correctly), resistant to solvents, and usually found on knives with precision construction and lockup.

Kraton is more commonly associated with full molded handles on cheaper knives. Solvent resistance can be an issue, particularly with DEET-based insect repellents and gasoline, etc. Although there are some knives out there using Kraton, most aren't higher-end items that people specifically seek out (as opposed to going down to Walmart and seeing what they have in stock). (a notable exception is the Swamp Rat line, but I think many people are drawn to those as an affordable Busse)

So kraton inlays might not perform badly, but they do have some negative perceptions associated with them. You'd likely have to get the knife into someone's hand to change these perceptions.

I'm with Carlos on the weight issue. A 3.5" blade with steel handles is probably going to be a tank. Keep the weight down, whether by slimming the handles or using aluminum.


Regarding color:

Black and various metal-grays tend to be dominant because they don't turn off many people, whereas a particular color can provoke a strong reaction. Some sort of bright color would be useful for retrieving knives lost in the woods, but I think that it would have to be aggressively marketed to hunters/fishers to make it worthwhile, particularly if that color was blaze orange. On the other hand, a blaze-orange insert might appeal to construction workers and the like looking for a tough utility pocket knife. You could play up that angle by stressing the knife as a safety tool - cutting clothing that got caught in machines, for example.

Finally, YAY BIG HOLE!!!!!:D
 
Full flat ground and VG10 is an excellent start ! ;-D

A choil like on the native or military assure a great security in any lock design !

I trust you for the rest of the design !

cheers

JM
 
Simply put a 3 1/2 in blade,G10 scale,full flat grind,lock back pro grip would be perfect.
 
I have always wanted to see a clip that had the Spyderco emblem presented in such a way as to make it stand out a bit more. There are now so many knives out there using Spyderco's idea of a pocket clip, it would be nice to see pocket clips that could readily be identified as Spyderco's. Could the emblem be cut/stamped out of the clip in the shape of the Spyderco Spyder? Not sure if this would compromise the strength of the clip, but it would be a neat feature. We could see in passing who has taste enough to have a SPYDERCO clipped inside their pocket..;)

Regardless, I am looking foward to this one Mr. Glesser!


Preston
 
Sal, the only problem that ever really presented itself with my older Pro Venator was the Kraton insert in the clip. It made the clip too obtrusive, as it was always catching on things and bending the clip outwards and/or scratching things. My suggestion is that you loose the Kraton insert on the clip, whatever else you do.

Other thoughts would be a plain edged blade and a choice of colors other than basic black. To those who seem to think that the knife would appeal only to the tactical crowd, may I suggest that you, perhaps, need to expand your circle of friends a bit. Not everyone in the knife using world is tactically oriented.*

* Changed to tone down original comment.
 
Just chiming in w/ my opinions here... G-10 is the "gold standard" for quality & durability in a grip/handle material. The relative durability, strength, etc. of FRN is immaterial when given the choice between the two. A metal frame would as mentioned above, be almost prohibitively heavy in a ~3.5" folder. As for color, OK, there is wiggle room here- Black is fine, the yellow/orange/Hi-Vis idea has merit as well. How difficult would it be to offer a choice? A "quality" steel is in order & a flat grind would be ideal.
 
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