-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Tinder and Tinderballs
- Thread starter SkunkWerX
- Start date
I put the cotton balls and vaseline in a zip lock bag and knead. The bicycle innertube is a good idea.
Drink milk? Rinse out and save your half gallon milk cartons. Cut it into squares that fit in a back pocket. This makes excellent tinder, and can be a waterproof base for starting your fire. Waxed paper is good too, and catches a spark from a good sparker like a blastmatch. I've made a few fires by going to our local "head" shop where they sell circular charcoal disks with a "pit" for burning incense, wrapping it in waxed paper, and hitting it with sparks from a fire steel. The waxed paper catches the spark, starts the flame, and transfers it to the charcoal. Lasts quite a while.
Don't forget to bring a candle also...
Drink milk? Rinse out and save your half gallon milk cartons. Cut it into squares that fit in a back pocket. This makes excellent tinder, and can be a waterproof base for starting your fire. Waxed paper is good too, and catches a spark from a good sparker like a blastmatch. I've made a few fires by going to our local "head" shop where they sell circular charcoal disks with a "pit" for burning incense, wrapping it in waxed paper, and hitting it with sparks from a fire steel. The waxed paper catches the spark, starts the flame, and transfers it to the charcoal. Lasts quite a while.
Don't forget to bring a candle also...
All this fuss over manufacturered tinder...what is wrong with nature's tender? The wilderness if plumb full of it and it is for free! Nothing to forget, nothing to go wrong....Just walk out into the wilderness, carve out a bow and drill/use flint 'n steel/use a metal match/use a rock 'n steel/use a hand drill, collect a tinder bundle, and build a fire what's the big deal?
i keep a tiny bundle of very dry (4-6 months in the attic) match stick sized bits of birch in my belt pouch with the ferro and striker (razor in slider holder) as well as cotton and wax paper. i keep in my shoulder bag a fair amount of fatwood sticks wrapped in 100% cotton cloth, for tinder and to keep my bag from getting sticky. i am also always finding finely split up bits of pine and birch in my jacket pockets.
i keep a matchbox in my pocket wiht my folder. in the box are some small peices of fatwood.
for starting a fire, i take out a peice of fatwood adn put place one end on a small paice of wood i flattened out for use as a baseboard. i hold the other end and use the razor to scrape/shave very fine dust/curls of fatwood into a pile. i then lay the tip of the fatwood in the center of the pile and prepare other tinder to go ontop in a minute. i put one end of the ferro rod into the center of the pile and hold the other end, and shave off large amounts of spark right into the pile. it takes less than 30 seconds of sparking to get the pile to light on fire. then the stick lights on fire, adn i pile on the kindling. if i happen to not have my shoulder bag, i make alot of shavings of dry wood and make a pile. i put a pinch of cotton down, put a peice of wax paper down so one edge is right above the cotton, and pile on the shavings. lots of kindling nearby. i light the cotton as before, the wax paper ignites, it burns the shavings, and then i pile on other sticks.
i always carry plenty of kindling, and know where to look for more.
i keep a matchbox in my pocket wiht my folder. in the box are some small peices of fatwood.
for starting a fire, i take out a peice of fatwood adn put place one end on a small paice of wood i flattened out for use as a baseboard. i hold the other end and use the razor to scrape/shave very fine dust/curls of fatwood into a pile. i then lay the tip of the fatwood in the center of the pile and prepare other tinder to go ontop in a minute. i put one end of the ferro rod into the center of the pile and hold the other end, and shave off large amounts of spark right into the pile. it takes less than 30 seconds of sparking to get the pile to light on fire. then the stick lights on fire, adn i pile on the kindling. if i happen to not have my shoulder bag, i make alot of shavings of dry wood and make a pile. i put a pinch of cotton down, put a peice of wax paper down so one edge is right above the cotton, and pile on the shavings. lots of kindling nearby. i light the cotton as before, the wax paper ignites, it burns the shavings, and then i pile on other sticks.
i always carry plenty of kindling, and know where to look for more.
Try it when it has poured a half inch of rain, it's cold, and the RH is 90% and it's misty/drizzling. A good bit of good old mother nature'd bounty is soaking wet.
Not too bad on a sunny day, to collect nature's dry bounty, but, I hope I have the foresight to be stranded unexpectedly only in good weather.
So, my point is made for me, it's easier said than done.
Siguy, you make an excellent point, overall. It's nice to have several ways to start a fire, but, as important, is having plenty of "flammables" to get the fire to the point where it will sustain itself.
I'm taking your lead, and making a good pack of dry tinder, not just a few cotton balls, but dried wood, etc.
Cold and Wet can be pretty miserable, and, is a pretty serious and dire circumstance, as far as hypothermia goes.
On a wet day like today, after a few attempts, I would probably concentrate on a shelter, for warmth and to shed the water, then work on the fire starting at the shelter.
I'm taking your lead, and making a good pack of dry tinder, not just a few cotton balls, but dried wood, etc.
Cold and Wet can be pretty miserable, and, is a pretty serious and dire circumstance, as far as hypothermia goes.
On a wet day like today, after a few attempts, I would probably concentrate on a shelter, for warmth and to shed the water, then work on the fire starting at the shelter.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2006
- Messages
- 107
hey guys do you have any other alternative if you cannot get PJ or vasline? because in Singapore, some stuff are hard to find or not even on sales. for example i only found one stall which sell one Blastmatch only (needless to say its in my hands now hehe...)
RokJok
Gold Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,187
Darkhawk424, You may have more vaseline on the store shelves than you realize. Many medicinal ointments are based on vaseline-like formulations and may work the same as vaseline for firemaking accelerants. Things like antiseptic ointments, muscle heating rub, and other such topical balms may work. Lip balms like Chapstick can be used to extend the burn time of cotton balls.
If you cannot find vaseline, waxes work even better.
Two of the common kinds here in USA are paraffin wax (translucent wax used for sealing jars when canning food) and beeswax (what is left of honeycomb after the honey is removed). From some testing done by Cliff Stamp, beeswax burns longer than paraffin. Paraffin can be bought at grocery stores, cooking supply stores, some hardware stores, etc. Beeswax can be found at beekeeping supply stores, candle-making supply vendors, some leather sewing suppliers, and some re-enactment/rendezvous/mountain man suppliers and events. My usual recommendation for beeswax is Stakich Inc on the internet.
You may have local waxes available in your market that work even better. A little experimentation will show which ones burn longer. If you test local waxes, please post results.
If you cannot find vaseline, waxes work even better.
Two of the common kinds here in USA are paraffin wax (translucent wax used for sealing jars when canning food) and beeswax (what is left of honeycomb after the honey is removed). From some testing done by Cliff Stamp, beeswax burns longer than paraffin. Paraffin can be bought at grocery stores, cooking supply stores, some hardware stores, etc. Beeswax can be found at beekeeping supply stores, candle-making supply vendors, some leather sewing suppliers, and some re-enactment/rendezvous/mountain man suppliers and events. My usual recommendation for beeswax is Stakich Inc on the internet.
You may have local waxes available in your market that work even better. A little experimentation will show which ones burn longer. If you test local waxes, please post results.
I concur...it is easier said than done and that is why I discipline myself to continue my formalized professional training so I can learn, perfect, and practice known modern and primitive techniques to do this in a rain storm! All of this is done under the watchful eye of a very competent instructor who provides feedback and validation when I do things correctly or "thumps me" when I do something stupid! Snow storms, high wind, soaking wet in a down pour with hands shivering...all part of the training, knowledge and skill building - yee ha!
Seems to me generations long before modern time were able to do it without the aide of modern techniques or resources so why can't we? It just means we have to find resources who have the knowledge and skills they are willing to transfer to those who are willing to learn. And regardless of what anyone wants learning isn't free!
Therefore, I am investing a considerable amount of time and $$$ in attending formalized professional training that not only builds my competence but my confidence!
Don't get me wrong, technology and modern resources are awesome! But when we become over reliant on them then a fella by the name of Murphy comes along and "wallah" we're in trouble. Instead of investing in "hardware" vis a' vis "gear" I've chosen to invest in "software" or "knowledge/skill/confidence". The deal is this...knowledge/skill is light in your bug out bag and not easily left behind! You can always give it away and still have plenty for yourself. Or, you can choose not to give it away and still have plenty. However, if you forget to bring your Vaseline soaked cotton balls and you're stuck in a rain storm now what are you going to do?
Fortunately the good Lord has provided a whole forest full of nature's Vaseline soaked cotton balls that work even in a rain storm. We just need to seek out the knowledge to be able to find it and know what to do with it! Last Saturday was prime example...my business partner and I were doing some wilderness survival training and I was able to light a fire in under 6 minutes while in a 100% humidity (soaking down pour) situation with a flint 'n steel using all God made tinder in a wet Pac NorthWet forest. Not bragg'n just saying it can be done. It just takes "learn'n" from someone who has been there and done that! Under timed conditions (for a test) I was able to do the same thing in snow conditions in under 4 minutes with a metal match.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2006
- Messages
- 357
Overconfidence kills. If you head to the woods with no safety blanket thinking you can do it all on your own then we will be reading about you in a headline. What happens if you cant get the fire started with natural tinder and you are out on your own. You may never live to tell anyone your mistakes. I would rather have known backups and a safety plan in place. practicing survival skills and being in a survival situation are 2 totally different things so why not prepare by having "niceites" like tinder. The extra preparedness could save your life. Encouraging people to leave essential items at home so they can "live like their ancestors" is irresponsible and could lead to someone elses injury.
Quirt, don't take this the wrong way, but your reply sounds like an advertisement for a Fee Based Wilderness Survival Training Course on CD.
The fact that you go on and on about about being able to light fires in under 6 minutes, without the help of man-made tinders helps me (and others) not one bit. We know it's possible. Thanks for confirming it.
Not once did you mention your secret tinder, nor your secret firemaking procedure. I notice things like that. Made my ears perk up. I waited for it, read your text, but got air. Which, for some strange reason , sounds like the beginnings of a sales pitch to me.
By the way, was the flint n steel you used man-made? What about the metal match? (rhetorical questions, of course)
"And regardless of what anyone wants learning isn't free!"
It is statments like this that really make me take note you are ready to try to sell us something.
"Step right up, folks, for the knowledge you've been waiting for! But it's not Free!"
I learn new things everyday, and they don't cost me a dime.
I also share the knowledge I have and do not charge for it.
It's just how I operate. It is how most everyone in this forum operates.
So, what god-made tinder do you use to start a fire in the pouring rain in the Pacific Northwest???
The fact that you go on and on about about being able to light fires in under 6 minutes, without the help of man-made tinders helps me (and others) not one bit. We know it's possible. Thanks for confirming it.
Not once did you mention your secret tinder, nor your secret firemaking procedure. I notice things like that. Made my ears perk up. I waited for it, read your text, but got air. Which, for some strange reason , sounds like the beginnings of a sales pitch to me.
By the way, was the flint n steel you used man-made? What about the metal match? (rhetorical questions, of course)
"And regardless of what anyone wants learning isn't free!"
It is statments like this that really make me take note you are ready to try to sell us something.
"Step right up, folks, for the knowledge you've been waiting for! But it's not Free!"
I learn new things everyday, and they don't cost me a dime.
I also share the knowledge I have and do not charge for it.
It's just how I operate. It is how most everyone in this forum operates.
So, what god-made tinder do you use to start a fire in the pouring rain in the Pacific Northwest???
Codger_64
Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2004
- Messages
- 62,324
I have read post after post about prepared tenders, and natural tenders, and about difficulties in starting and maintaining fires in damp or wet conditions, but no one has mentioned my majic rocks. They have been a favorite cheat of mine for years. Throw a couple under your tender pile with all the rest of your materials gathered, add a tough of water, a spark, and poof! The rocks are kiln baked limestone. When you add a few drops of water, they give off acetelyne gas. Calcium carbide like miners used years ago is still available, and not very expensive. It works in the penny stoves too. If your fire tender is fairly damp, after you light the carbide, toss in a fer chips shaved from a bar of trioxane.
I agree, it is best to learn to build fires with nothing but what is around you. The polynesians had a "myth" that fire actually lived in certain trees. A Samoan with an improvised fire plow can have a fire going in less than a minute. I saw a cultural demonstrator's preteen son do it in less. Carrying "fire makings" was a natural thing to early American woodsmen. And even townswomen thought nothing of striking fire for their hearths long before "lucifers" were invented. Next to knives, I think fire is one of mankind's oldest tools (search forum for "PYRO" for the story).
Codger
I agree, it is best to learn to build fires with nothing but what is around you. The polynesians had a "myth" that fire actually lived in certain trees. A Samoan with an improvised fire plow can have a fire going in less than a minute. I saw a cultural demonstrator's preteen son do it in less. Carrying "fire makings" was a natural thing to early American woodsmen. And even townswomen thought nothing of striking fire for their hearths long before "lucifers" were invented. Next to knives, I think fire is one of mankind's oldest tools (search forum for "PYRO" for the story).
Codger
Hey Coyote, I didn't see your reply before I posted.
I totally agree, I'd like to have all options, as my life could depend on it,
if there is some great tinder in the forest, I'd like to know about it, but, I'm not banking on it always being there, right where I am.
The funny thing is, even the IceMan carried his best tinder with him, and it was with him thousands of years later when they dug him out of the Alps. If we were tinderless entering the woods, I'd bet we would certainly begin "stocking up" and finding ways to keep it dry immediately.
So, I think finding natural tinder is a good thing, just like finding a stone that we could make a cutting blade out of, but it doesn't mean I'm going to leave my knife at home!
You make a very good point and convincing argument for being prepared.
Codger_64
Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2004
- Messages
- 62,324
I have read post after post about prepared tenders, and natural tenders, and about difficulties in starting and maintaining fires in damp or wet conditions, but no one has mentioned my majic rocks. They have been a favorite cheat of mine for years. Throw a couple under your tender pile with all the rest of your materials gathered, add a touch of water, a spark, and poof! The rocks are kiln baked limestone. When you add a few drops of water, they give off acetelyne gas. Calcium carbide like miners used years ago is still available, and not very expensive. It works in the penny stoves too. If your fire tender is fairly damp, after you light the carbide, toss in a few chips shaved from a bar of trioxane.
I agree, it is best to learn to build fires with nothing but what is around you. The polynesians had a "myth" that fire actually lived in certain trees. A Samoan with an improvised fire plow can have a fire going in less than a minute. I saw a cultural demonstrator's preteen son do it in less. Carrying "fire makings" was a natural thing to early American woodsmen. And even townswomen thought nothing of striking fire for their hearths long before "lucifers" were invented. Next to knives, I think fire is one of mankind's oldest tools (search forum for "PYRO" for the story).
Codger
I agree, it is best to learn to build fires with nothing but what is around you. The polynesians had a "myth" that fire actually lived in certain trees. A Samoan with an improvised fire plow can have a fire going in less than a minute. I saw a cultural demonstrator's preteen son do it in less. Carrying "fire makings" was a natural thing to early American woodsmen. And even townswomen thought nothing of striking fire for their hearths long before "lucifers" were invented. Next to knives, I think fire is one of mankind's oldest tools (search forum for "PYRO" for the story).
Codger
Codger, man I like the way you think. Now adays they call it "out of the box" thinking, but I think that is just a fancy way of saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Along the lines of your calcium carbide idea, I even thought about simply picking up some esbit , trioxane, or hexamine tablets. Hikers use them to cook with, but I bet they'd be great for conjuring up that survival fire, the one that is gonna keep us warm and alive over night. The hot water is just a bonus and rasies the core temp a little. I am gonig on the idea that I was able to get flame, briefly, but the trouble was maintaining it.
It was certainly enough flame to light an esbit tab.
Thanks for your thoughts they always spark additional ones.
And the road flares, man, I like that one. Fire starter and/or signalling device.:thumbup:
- Joined
- Nov 7, 1999
- Messages
- 6,651
Hey Guys....
I agree with alot of things Quirt has said..for instance...
Why do we find it so difficult to make fire from just natural material...
The reason being is that society has lost the need to know how to.
The same reason kids these days can't do mathamatics without a calculator and can't spell (edited for Spelling.. LOL)properly because of the use of spell checkers...
We have lost the need for these things.Keep in mind the majority of people in the US/Canada,, any modernized society lives in citys,high rises and such, When inner city children have never seen a cow in real life before,, there are some problems...
Yes I find it important to know how to make a fire with a firebow or a hand drill..Yes it's Very important,, however I don't find it As important than using Firesteels, chemicals,flint/steel and alternative methods of firemaking...
99% of the people I know would have a problem lighting a campfire under less than ideal conditions,with a frigging lighter, let alone with a Firesteel or an alternative method.
For these people it is more important to know these spark based and alternative methods than it is to know bow drill methods...
Baby steps first,, learn to walk,, then to run..
I myself can't make fire with a firebow,, but with an email I got today,, that is about to change...
It's all important as far as I'm concerned..
ttyle
Eric
O/ST
I agree with alot of things Quirt has said..for instance...
Why do we find it so difficult to make fire from just natural material...
The reason being is that society has lost the need to know how to.
The same reason kids these days can't do mathamatics without a calculator and can't spell (edited for Spelling.. LOL)properly because of the use of spell checkers...
We have lost the need for these things.Keep in mind the majority of people in the US/Canada,, any modernized society lives in citys,high rises and such, When inner city children have never seen a cow in real life before,, there are some problems...
Yes I find it important to know how to make a fire with a firebow or a hand drill..Yes it's Very important,, however I don't find it As important than using Firesteels, chemicals,flint/steel and alternative methods of firemaking...
99% of the people I know would have a problem lighting a campfire under less than ideal conditions,with a frigging lighter, let alone with a Firesteel or an alternative method.
For these people it is more important to know these spark based and alternative methods than it is to know bow drill methods...
Baby steps first,, learn to walk,, then to run..
I myself can't make fire with a firebow,, but with an email I got today,, that is about to change...
It's all important as far as I'm concerned..
ttyle
Eric
O/ST
I have made fires with natural flint and steel, and with a fire-drill. I would say that I am reasonably experienced with these things...relative to most of my neighbors anyway. But I have to say that it can be helluva frustrating trying to get a fire going in damp conditions with anything less than a flamethrower and napalm.
I generally always have a man-made method of lighting a fire with me.
If I were living in the wilderness without matches and lighters etc, it would be very important to me to always keep my fire going (at least a few coals). I would also stash away a decent quantity of suitable tinder material.
When things are damp, it may be worth wrapping up a bit of tinder in a cloth and stuffing it down your shirt to warm up and dry out a bit.
With our modern way of life, when we need a fire in a wilderness emergency we generally need it NOW!!. For this reason I think that a good quality gas cigarette lighter is one of the best things to have with you. They aren't totally infallible, but generally they provide a full flame on demand. A fire steel will supply sparks with excellent reliability.... but turning the sparks into a flame takes time....and sometimes can seem almost impossible.
To me, the hardest part of firelighting is often turning the spark into a flame. The bowdrill can faithfully supply a lovely glowing coal (even in damp weather), but if the tinder is damp or not of good quality, chances are you won't get a flame.
As I experiment, I may find natural tinder materials or methods of using them that make firelighting in wet conditions a bit easier. It is a worthwhile quest that gives me some fun.
Happy New Year.....Coote.
I generally always have a man-made method of lighting a fire with me.
If I were living in the wilderness without matches and lighters etc, it would be very important to me to always keep my fire going (at least a few coals). I would also stash away a decent quantity of suitable tinder material.
When things are damp, it may be worth wrapping up a bit of tinder in a cloth and stuffing it down your shirt to warm up and dry out a bit.
With our modern way of life, when we need a fire in a wilderness emergency we generally need it NOW!!. For this reason I think that a good quality gas cigarette lighter is one of the best things to have with you. They aren't totally infallible, but generally they provide a full flame on demand. A fire steel will supply sparks with excellent reliability.... but turning the sparks into a flame takes time....and sometimes can seem almost impossible.
To me, the hardest part of firelighting is often turning the spark into a flame. The bowdrill can faithfully supply a lovely glowing coal (even in damp weather), but if the tinder is damp or not of good quality, chances are you won't get a flame.
As I experiment, I may find natural tinder materials or methods of using them that make firelighting in wet conditions a bit easier. It is a worthwhile quest that gives me some fun.
Happy New Year.....Coote.