Tinder and Tinderballs

Normark, I think we all agree it would be nice to know everything survival realated.
However, you should have a back up to your bow-drill, right? You should have a flint, fero-rod, matches tinder, whatever?? right?

Knowing how, doesn't exclude any of us from relying on other methods.
Nor should it exclude anyone who doesn't happen to know, or be proficient at it.

When one's life is dependant on it, there are no second chances.
For me the bow drill would be my dead-last choice, before keeling over from hypothermia. Why? Because it is the least likely method by which I can produce fire. It also happens to be one of the least likely methods in the world of producing fire.

In a survival situation the important thing is get a fire lit as quickly and efficiently as possible. By whatever means. They say that approximatly 500 people in North America can consistantly light a fire using a Bow&Drill.

I am all for carrying primitive ways through future generations, but it doesn't mean we should only be reliant on them, just as we shouldn't be totally reliant on a lighter.

Knowing and not knowing a primitive firemaking skill has no bearing on the decision to carry man-made tinder. I guess what I'm trying to say is the prudent person is going to care for items like tinder because their life can hang in the balance.

No one disagreed that it would nice to know more skills and have more knowledge, what we were discussing is that any of that gained knowledge or skill shouldn't preclude us from being prepared, whether that be carrying a lighter, man-made tinder, matches or whatever.

It's not a mutually exclusive choice. We can know how to make fire by rubbing two sticks together, but it doesn't preclude us from carrying man-made tinder. We are allowed to be prepared with man-made tinder, in this case, despite our knowledge & skill level.

Coyote said it best, overconfidence kills.

This discussion began because I tried, unsuccesfully, to light a fire using natural material in a wet forest. I can light fires all day long when it's dry out, but I would be a fool to only carry my fero-rod with me and expect to always be able to make fire. It only takes one time for it to fail, in order to kill us.
 
I have made fires with natural flint and steel, and with a fire-drill. I would say that I am reasonably experienced with these things...relative to most of my neighbors anyway. But I have to say that it can be helluva frustrating trying to get a fire going in damp conditions with anything less than a flamethrower and napalm.

I generally always have a man-made method of lighting a fire with me.

If I were living in the wilderness without matches and lighters etc, it would be very important to me to always keep my fire going (at least a few coals). I would also stash away a decent quantity of suitable tinder material.

When things are damp, it may be worth wrapping up a bit of tinder in a cloth and stuffing it down your shirt to warm up and dry out a bit.

With our modern way of life, when we need a fire in a wilderness emergency we generally need it NOW!!. For this reason I think that a good quality gas cigarette lighter is one of the best things to have with you. They aren't totally infallible, but generally they provide a full flame on demand. A fire steel will supply sparks with excellent reliability.... but turning the sparks into a flame takes time....and sometimes can seem almost impossible.

To me, the hardest part of firelighting is often turning the spark into a flame. The bowdrill can faithfully supply a lovely glowing coal (even in damp weather), but if the tinder is damp or not of good quality, chances are you won't get a flame.

As I experiment, I may find natural tinder materials or methods of using them that make firelighting in wet conditions a bit easier. It is a worthwhile quest that gives me some fun.

Happy New Year.....Coote.


Coote, well put. I was there, in that place where I could have used a flamethrower! :D And I think each set of circumstances teaches us something. I was getting a flame to ignite using dry lint, but, I wasn't able to keep the flame ON, it would quickly die. Not enough tinder, not enough dry kindling, and add the mositure and cold, and I knew what my gremlins were.

I porved something to myself. Be prepared for the worst. For not finding clean water, for wet condtions, for cold, for whatever mother-nature can throw at you. If that means man-made tinder, and a Bic Lighter, then so be it. :thumbup:
 
Coote, well put. I was there, in that place where I could have used a flamethrower! :D And I think each set of circumstances teaches us something. I was getting a flame to ignite using dry lint, but, I wasn't able to keep the flame ON, it would quickly die. Not enough tinder, not enough dry kindling, and add the mositure and cold, and I knew what my gremlins were.

I porved something to myself. Be prepared for the worst. For not finding clean water, for wet condtions, for cold, for whatever mother-nature can throw at you. If that means man-made tinder, and a Bic Lighter, then so be it. :thumbup:

I was having similar problems Skunk. With the winter storm that rolled through here earlier this week. My biggest problem was keeping the dry tinder dry as i was shaving it and preparing it for the sparking. the heavy snow was blowing all over soaking everything. Water running down the blade of the knife onto the shavings. I finally ended up shaving split cedar heartwood while humped over it with my jacket open to provide protection then quickly stuffing the shavings into my pocket to keep them somewhat dry until I had enough to try lighting it.

All in all it was a humbling experience to say the least. Does anyone have any tips on keeping tinder dry while your gathering/processing it in inclement conditions? I'm not sure but I could swear that the tinder became damp while in my pocket. Perspiration vapor perhaps?

BTW I ended up ditching the ferro rod and burning duct tape peeled from my Bic to get the fire going :(
 
... Does anyone have any tips on keeping tinder dry while your gathering/processing it in inclement conditions?

I'm not sure that there's a quick answer to this one other than "whatever is necessary". The only hints that can be given are to prepare your fire from large wood first to kindling and then only prepare your tinder when you are ready to ignite it. Work quickly as you expose the dry tinder and waste no time in lighting it. Use your body or whatever means you have to protect the tinder.

In this area (PNW) a group of us go out fairly regularly (though not enough) and spend a day out in the woods, practicing our fire and shelter building skills and talking about knives while our coffee brews. We are not particular about whether it's dry or rainy...we just go. Because of this, each and every time we go out, I learn something new and improve my firestarting technique. The preferred tinder in the area is pitchwood (aka fatwood) because it is so prevalent in our forests. We typically gather our tinder from stumps on each trip, but I carry a large chunk of it in my sheath pouch for emergencies.

Paid trainings or not, get the practice in however you can. Firebuilding practice doesn't necessarily require a full overnight trip....it's just best that way. ;)
 
Hey troy-
Can you post the link to river8's website where he makes a fire using the howler to get the tender. I believe he made that fire in the rain didn't he? Man I wish I lived in the Pacific NorthWest, you guys are so lucky.
 
Well, I'll try this again. I took too long typing the message and the stupid forum logged me out, losing everything I typed. This time it's on Word first.


Quote - 360joules: "The preferred tinder in the area is pitchwood (aka fatwood) because it is so prevalent in our forests."

Fatwood is an excellent tinder ONCE the flame is there. Other things in my area (Southern Ontario, Canada) that work well as accelerants are Birch bark (Betula papyrifera) - burns even when it's wet; Spruce (Picea spp.) gum - once it's burning it's hard to put it out. It can fall in the snow and keep burning; Cherry (Prunus spp.) bark burns well, but not as good as Birch; Common Buckthorn (Rhamnus cathartica) does, as well, but this is based on limited experimentation. More work needed.

Dry evergreen needles (and branches); dry, dead twigs (still attached) on the bottom of evergreen trees, and many other things - yours to discover.

Quote-SkunkWerx: " The funny thing is, even the IceMan carried his best tinder with him."
This is a very good point, Skunk. Early peoples didn't go gather their tinder when it started to rain, they carried an adequate supply with them. The same goes for their fire making tools, much like we carry lighters and matches, today. This ensured optimal materials and tools.

An old woodsman's habit when heading out, was to gather good tinder as he came across it, and stick it in his pack, bag, whatever, so that when a fire was needed, he had the material. He didn't have to gather it when rain was running down his nose.

As far as protecting it from the wet, sometimes containers were made and used - something like Birch bark which, of course, is waterproof (and highly flammable). To make a waterproof Birch bark container is not rocket science.

Quote - Skunkwerx: When one's life is dependant on it, there are no second chances. For me the bow drill would be my dead-last choice, before keeling over from hypothermia. Why? Because it is the least likely method by which I can produce fire. That can be rectified. It also happens to be one of the least likely methods in the world of producing fire - Not so. Bow drill is probably the most likely method of making fire of all the primitive methods. If you're only going to learn one, this is the one.

Well, I guess it's too late to cut this short, but I want to say this. Of all the wilderness survival skills to learn, this (friction fire) is the single most important, and before someone says that shelters come first, for me they are inseparable.

A quote: " Fire, it goes without question, is mankind’s most important technical appliance. And finding out how to actually make fire, is man’s most important invention." (Jurgen Weiner, German archaeologist, 2003, BPT 26-10)

As far as there are only 500 people in North America that can reliably make friction fire - nonsense.

Having said all that, you will never find me anywhere (under my control, that is) without a magnesium fire starter and a butane lighter, at the very least.


Doc
 
Hey Doc thanks for the words of wisdom.

Clarification on the Bow drill being the least likely, I was meaning amongst the other "modern" methods that were being tossed about.

I also agree Fire is of paramount importance.

I have slept outdoors, no shelter at all, next to a hot fire and been fairly warm and relatively comfortable.
I have spent the night in shelter and frozen my butt off.

Collecting tinder and carrying tinder to have on hand is probably a habit I need to think about more often, than relying on material "at the camp site".
A small water tight pouch , even a simle zip lock bag would keep that precious material safe and dry.

Fire is practically in our genetic make-up.
Just watch a group of people around a camp fire.
The thought always runs through my head to thousands of years ago, and how similar we are to our ancestors.

And DOC, yes, one day I'll get back to my roots and do the bow-drill or pump-drill practice to become a bit more comfortable with it.

I really lean toward pump drills from an efficiency stand point.
I look at it this way: The pump drill is gonna take longer to build, but i am a builder and enjoy it, I'd rather be working toward fabricating a pump drill, then spend my time working the Bow.....as i recall it took me about 30 mins or maybe upward of 45 mins to get fire in the BoyScouts. I think that 1 single event turned me off of the whole concept. I'll have to get over it. Some day. ;)
 
Quote - 360joules: "The preferred tinder in the area is pitchwood (aka fatwood) because it is so prevalent in our forests."

Fatwood is an excellent tinder ONCE the flame is there.

Lighting the pitchwood directly from a spark is a relatively easy thing to do. Just create a pile of shavings and use a slow spark with your flint.

Here's the thread that coyotesniper mentioned. This is a site run by River-8, one of the gents from our group, and shows this technique clearly.
Howling Rat Fire
 
Best tinder I know of is cheap and easy to make. Go to your local hardware store and buy a ball of Jute twine. Costs about $1.00. Make sure it is Jute. It will by a greenish gray color. When you get home, cut 3 - 1 yard long strands and brad them together. Melt some parafin or candle wax and dip the braded twine in the wax and let it dry. Thats it, you now have the finest tinder I know of. To use, cut a piece about 1 inch long and "fuzz" one end with your knife, a rock or a piece of wood. What you want to do is separate out the individual fibers. You and bend it so the fuzzed end sticks up with the rest laying on the ground. Now strike your flint. It should catch readily and will burn for several minutes. What I like about this form of tinder is that it is cheap and easily made. You can tie a string of it off to your pack or kit and rain or emersion in water won't affect it. Just shake the water off and go on. Also, it can be unbraded and used as twine to tie up something. It therefore fulfills one of my prime rules for carry items in that it serves a dule purpose.
Saltblade
 
Darkhawk, just read your post about lack of PJ...so I just did some quick experiments with cotton balls and other greasy substances. I did this on the front steps in melting snow, my wife came out to ask me why I was staring at the steps ;)

Bacon grease - burns okay for about a minute. That was the only animal lard I had on hand to try.

Crisco - This burned very well with good flame for about a minute and a half.

Light olive oil - the cotton burned away and when the flame got to the olive oil it went out. This is interesting because olive oil is reputed to have a high flash point, in other words it can get very hot before it starts to smoke.

Peanut oil - this was the best burner of all, very good flame for about 4 minutes. This also is interesting, because peanut oil is recommended for frying...just don't put a match to it.

Light machine oil - this burned well for about a minute, also gave off very black smoke as you can imagine.

WD-40 - another good burner for about 45 seconds.

I haven't tried bearing grease yet or brake fluid. I'll leave that for somebody else to try ;)

Of the bunch, I would recommend Crisco or peanut oil as an alternative to PJ.
 
Best tinder I know of is cheap and easy to make. Go to your local hardware store and buy a ball of Jute twine. Costs about $1.00. Make sure it is Jute. It will by a greenish gray color. When you get home, cut 3 - 1 yard long strands and brad them together. Melt some parafin or candle wax and dip the braded twine in the wax and let it dry. Thats it, you now have the finest tinder I know of. To use, cut a piece about 1 inch long and "fuzz" one end with your knife, a rock or a piece of wood. What you want to do is separate out the individual fibers. You and bend it so the fuzzed end sticks up with the rest laying on the ground. Now strike your flint. It should catch readily and will burn for several minutes. What I like about this form of tinder is that it is cheap and easily made. You can tie a string of it off to your pack or kit and rain or emersion in water won't affect it. Just shake the water off and go on. Also, it can be unbraded and used as twine to tie up something. It therefore fulfills one of my prime rules for carry items in that it serves a dule purpose.
Saltblade


Way back last century when I was doing historical reenactments of the early 1800's, "tow" (originally flax fibers), along with charcloth was always in my strike-a-light kit with my flint and iron striker. Tow was multi-purpose back then too. Mainly kept to wipe the bore of muzzleloading rifles using a wiping stick (ramrod), it would burn well. Particularly after being coated with the nitrate and carbon residue from a dirty bore. Charcloth is explained elsewhere here, but it is basically cotton mattress and pillow ticking used for rifle shooting patches which has been partially burned like char-coal in the absence of oxygen, leaving a thin, readily flammable tender that will catch and hold sparks well.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=2685
http://muzzleloadermag.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/22610091/m/4021045351
http://www.thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/tedd_cash.htm#boxes

Codger
 
Lighting the pitchwood directly from a spark is a relatively easy thing to do. Just create a pile of shavings and use a slow spark with your flint.

Here's the thread that coyotesniper mentioned. This is a site run by River-8, one of the gents from our group, and shows this technique clearly.
Howling Rat Fire

Hey 360j,
I was thinking of tinder in conjunction with friction fire. I don't think fatwood would burst into flame when used with a coal produced by bow drill.

However, I didn't know that fatwood would ignite from ferro rod, alone. Thanks for that. I'll have to give it a try.

Doc
 
Hey 360j,
I was thinking of tinder in conjunction with friction fire. I don't think fatwood would burst into flame when used with a coal produced by bow drill.

However, I didn't know that fatwood would ignite from ferro rod, alone. Thanks for that. I'll have to give it a try.

Doc

Aaah. You're probably right about that -- friction fire would be much easier with a different tinder. Our resident primitive fire builder wore himself out trying to light pitchwood shavings. Smoke, but no fire. :D
 
Codger,
Along those same thoughts, they say anytime someone cleans a firearm, save the dirty flannel (Cotton) patches for tinder. They make great tinder, having cleaning solution, oil, and carbon build up in "just the right amounts".
 
Yep. And don't forget nitrated papers. They range from lightly nitrated like Zig-Zags to heavily nitrated like magicians flash papers. Almost all will catch and hold a spark, though it takes some work to get it into a usable flame. Still, it is an alternative. You can also make your own flash paper by wetting black powder and working it into cotton cloth, then drying it. Just be careful with it. People look awful silly with no eyelashes or eyebrows. (don't ask) You may consider this a disclaimer if you wish!

Codger
 
Hey Guys...

Ok,, made a batch of vaseline goo balls today. Up until now I've been using ones that someone else made and sent me...

I damn near used an entire tub of vaseline..Coly cow do those things suck up that stuff...

I also added a couple little parafin tea candles to the mix,, theis makes them somewhat stiffer,,and less greasy...

Now when you guys make them,, do you use entire cotton balls,, or are you splitting them up ???

I made a bunch full size,, but started splitting them up...

I like the addition of the parafin,, and the next batch I may add more to make them a little stiffer yet...

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
Someone psoted that their full sized PJ Cotton balls would burn for avg. of 8 minutes!!!

If this is even remotely correct, I would say you could cut them in half or even quarter them.

You can always use 2 or 3 "quarters" if you think you have wet conditions, or questionable tinder, or cold weather.

That's all I have for input.
 
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