Tip penetration : amusing, actually quantitative as well

[Gossman Knives]

I think another problem with ATS-34 might be variations in steel quality from batch to batch. Of course the HT and RC will affect overall performance, but if the underlying material varies then the QC will suffer as well. I think 154CM has a better reputation for QC from batch to batch. I have no doubt ATS-34 can make a quality blade, I just don't have one myself, yet.

Add a cryo treatment and that will enhance edge holding.
Scott

 

[roughedges]

It astounds me to see such anger and hostility in a thread in which Cliff Stamp reviews NO KNIFES SPECIFICALLY and names NONE BY NAME. How then is it possible to nitpick his "review" of knives when he has given absolutely no information? No, from my outsiders prespective Cliff Stamp was posting a light hearted comment on a penetration exercise he was trying out one weekend and several people with issues over Cliff's knife reviews took it as a welcome mat to scrape the mud off their boots on.

C'mon, there is not a knife review here in any sense of the word- I think Cliff Stamp would agree with that.

Whether you like the guy or not, feel he is full of BS or not, this thread in which no claims were made initially by Mr. Stamp is no place to critique Cliff Stamps methodology regarding penetration of a plastic bottle. If he had posted ACTUAL RESULTS that would be different and open to debate. But give a guy a break, he didn't even make any claims in this thread for people to disagree with before the "pounce on Cliff's methodology party" started!

As for the personal attacks by any party- it sure as heck doesn't do much to make your other claims seem valid. And maybe my opinion as to the validity of anyone's claims doesnt count for much, so be it. Even still, slinging insults in an open forum sure isn't the most mature thing I've seen today.

 

[conan]

D-2 is an excellent knife blade steel but only as good as the heat treatment and more importantly only as useful as blade design and edge geometry allow. I am a metallurgist and I have dealt with D-2 for over thirty years. With the exception of A-2, D-2 is the most widely used cold work tool steel and a large percentage of D-2 applications involve industrial knives. I know numerous custom knife makers who consider D-2 the best overall knife blade steel available and these knife makers have worked hard to develope their own D-2 heat treatment procedure.

ANY steel can be brittle if it is not handled correctly in heat treatment. And, poor blade design and edge geometry can be key contributors to a blade that fails.

Do not under-estimate D-2 as aquality knife blade steel.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Steelhed]

conan - D2 is a great steel for knives as far as I'm concerned, but like everything else it has its applications. It would not be my first choice for a chopper or large knife in general, but it is my first choice for field dressing game, although I don't try to break breast bones or pry joints with it. I carry a saw, hatchet or a large knife made of 5160 or 1084 or something like that. I also like A2, but it can also be brittle if not heat treated correctly.

 

[mtngunr]

a marriage made in heaven....of course, it's the alloy preferred for automotive springs, so naturally it resists shock and deformation quite well....but it always goes back to the manufacturing method and heat-treat....in my experiences, no matter the wonder-steel, stainless gets brittle at higher hardness and is still better left for surgical scapel chores, otherwise you just might snap the tip or chip the edge whittling a bowl, dropping it on the floor, or hitting a hidden staple or nail shank, or even bone....

 

[Gossman Knives]

a marriage made in heaven....of course, it's the alloy preferred for automotive springs, so naturally it resists shock and deformation quite well....but it always goes back to the manufacturing method and heat-treat.

I agree with you about 5160. Awesome steel for large camp and chopping knives.
Scott

 

[Cliff Stamp]

C'mon, there is not a knife review here in any sense of the word- I think Cliff Stamp would agree with that.

No, hence the word fun in the title. This is just something you would do to illustate one aspect of tip performance which is only one aspect of a knife. Plus you would also want to accompany it with actual EDC class use to confirm the performance it illustrates and thus test the test.

I have been showing my nephew some knives and talking to him about performance and geometry trying to get him to look at how knives are shaped and get some impressions on performance. I was mainly looking for ways to illustrate performance which are visually more striking and simply more fun than something dry like stabbing a phonebook because he is never going to want to do that and count pages and so on.

My main point here was two fold, one mainly it can be an interesting diversion, spend an afternoon cutting thread and counting pages and poking a few bottles around can be of use. Second you can actually quantify anything and learn something useful if you take the time to think about it and put some effort into it.

I actually spent some time doing this today and it has problems, none of which are mentioned in the above, the main one is that is is so *long* to do. I set a standard of 75% success as the pass rate for a knife (I never had trouble going way beyond that, it just seemed reasonable on the onset) and then added sand in fairly coarse increments until a given knife would be able to achieve it. You can then refine the increments to zero in, just like you do rough titrations for anyone who wants a fond recall to chem labs.

It takes so much time though compared to the other tip work I do that I don't think it will replace it any time soon. If you really wanted to do it sensibly, I would actually hang the bottle from ropes (I was just knocking them around off a table) and set up a dozen or so, so this way you can quickly run multiple trials and not have to go around resetting up bottles.

-Cliff

 

[Dan Gray]

topic...
Tip penetration : amusing, actually quantitative as well

the big thing I saw here was Off Topic
I'm not taking sides here but it is Stamps thread..
if it was in Shop talk it would have been overwith a long time ago.
I for one don't care for be-littling anyone, or posting ones picture with-out permision, if there is a problem , it a Mod's problem or personaly i'd keep it between ones selves just mho for what it's worth.
I will tell you guys what though at the exspence of being O,T,
respect has not been gained a lot here for me. at the very least from what I can see is the owners own thread he's the only one keeping cool.

now you (anyone) can dis me if you'd like I pull no bones or favor no one..if you know me at all....
comit hail bop had folowers too ,,, to each his own just 2 more cents than I should'nt have spent.
I'm going back to Shop Talk..

I wrote this before looking at the back end of this and like see it's turning some to topic more