Tired of supersteels

[LimpCroissant]

Well guys, I was saying the other day that I'm kind of tired of reprofiling super steels as I feel the need to reprofile every knife that I deem a serious user. I also said that I want to experiment with edcing a knife with a steel that has less edge retention so I can experiment with whether I prefer to reprofile a super hard steel and be able to cut with it for many months before reprofiling again (with stropping and/or sharpmaker honings in between), or having to reprofile a bit more often yet each reprofile job and honing job being much easier. This is the knife that I chose to do that experiment with. I reprofiled it to 17 degrees per side last night and it took much less time than the Benchmade S30v (Bugout) that I did the day before. I'll let ya'll know what I think if you're interested. It takes me a little bit longer to get prolonged results than someone in a trade or something that heavily uses their knives everyday, however I do use my knife everyday at work.

 

[woodysone]

Well guys, I was saying the other day that I'm kind of tired of reprofiling super steels as I feel the need to reprofile every knife that I deem a serious user. I also said that I want to experiment with edcing a knife with a steel that has less edge retention so I can experiment with whether I prefer to reprofile a super hard steel and be able to cut with it for many months before reprofiling again (with stropping and/or sharpmaker honings in between), or having to reprofile a bit more often yet each reprofile job and honing job being much easier. This is the knife that I chose to do that experiment with. I reprofiled it to 17 degrees per side last night and it took much less time than the Benchmade S30v (Bugout) that I did the day before. I'll let ya'll know what I think if you're interested. It takes me a little bit longer to get prolonged results than someone in a trade or something that heavily uses their knives everyday, however I do use my knife everyday at work.

Have to ask what steel is the one handed blade?

 

[LimpCroissant]

Have to ask what steel is the one handed blade?

Good question my friend. I was actually just remembering that I forgot to mention what steel it was . This is an old school original K87 One Hand Knife so it's just AUS-8 at 57-59 HRC. I was just reading about it a little bit to recap. Looks like AG Russell found some of these sitting around in drawers and what not and they have some listed for sale on their website again. These ones were manufactured in Japan and then AG Russell and one other guy hand fitted them in the US. I've had mine for about a decade. A cool little piece of history

 

[Hvactech]

The HVAC guys installing my new air conditioner, they carried box cutter knives. The primary reason, they lost knives frequently “I can’t keep a knife”. One of them said, “I will buy a $5.00 knife and see how long it lasts”. The Boss of the unit had a cheap small fixed blade knife, looked like a copy of a Puma, and it was dull. He was given it, and he used it as a pry bar. He also did not carry mulitools because his “multi tools would “disappear”.

I like D2. D2 can be found on lots of $50 and $75 folding knives. D2 takes a good edge and holds it well.

Before the Trump tariffs, this cost $35.00 delivered from China. And it is a great $35.00 knife.

You know, this knife cost me $50.00 delivered, and it is probably 440A. And it cuts just fine. I am surprised on how hard the steel is, for 440A, but it is not as hard as D2. (what sunk these Komoran's was theU2X. No one wanted to pay the original MSRP for a mystery steel) So what, you don’t need to spend ridiculous amounts to buy a very serviceable knife.

If you are an early adopter, you are going to pay for the privilege of owning the steel du jour. And you are going to pay through the nose for that privilege. But give it time. I remember when AUS 8 was considered a super steel. This was an expensive knife.

My new 1987 one hand AG Russell knife, which cost almost $200 in today’s money, it was AUS 8, and I did not find that out till shortly before AG’s death, when he came out with a N690 version. Back in 1987 AUS 8 was cutting edge high tech and expensive. About a year ago I purchased a number of Schrade frame lock knives in AUS 8. They were $15.00 each. Nothing wrong with AUS 8 at that price.

This was expensive, and it is AUS 6. How much would you pay for an AUS 6 knife now?

There is a deliberate planned obsolescence with steels to create product churn. Lacking standardized testing, you really don't know how much better the steel du jour is compared with the last fashion cycle. In my opinion, it does not pay to be an early super steel adopter. A couple of fashion cycles down the road, you can buy today's latest and greatest for a lot less.

I can vouch for the hvac guys lol. I also use a razor knife while at work, even though I have at least a folder and a switchblade on me at all times. I would much rather change a razor blade out after running it across metal while cutting silicone out etc etc. The trades are hard on tools.

 

[Hvactech]

I might try some 3V, now that it’s pretty easily available thanks to those Demkos….
Id love to get my hands on one of those MEFP Hinderer Eklipse wharncliffes in 3V, that’s one of my grails ATM

I tried selling my mefp Hinderer wharnie a couple weeks ago on the forum, didn't get a single reply.

 

[Hvactech]

Ok sweet. I might keep my eyes peeled for a user on the exchange. Thanks

You can pick up a new one on the bay, I've been eye balling them as well

 

[AntDog]

I just wanted to share my recent annoying experience with some 20CV, and basically just vent.
At first for me, it was like a status symbol to have “M390” or “20CV” on the blade. Like I was driving a Cadillac. right.
Anyway, I didn’t give it much thought when using some of my beater knives in these steels, because I would use my KO worksharp belt sharpener and be done in a few minutes.
But lately I’ve been trying to get better at freehand (sort of) and I’ve been using a Sharpmaker. It’s been going great with weekly or bi-weekly touch ups on my ZT 0566 (Elmax), Spyderco PM2 (S30V) and a griptilian (154CM).
Then recently, my dad came to me with his 0357 (20cv) I gave him as a gift last year and asked me to sharpen it. No big deal I thought.
Boy was I wrong, even with the diamonds it was MUCH more difficult to sharpen than the previously mentioned steels.
So I guess the point I’m trying to make is, why is everyone still so crazy about these super steels? If it’s going to be a safe queen, I guess it brings about a certain “bragging right”, but it doesn’t really matter. And those of us who are going to use a specific knife (and have to resharpen it eventually) wouldn’t you rather have S30V, S35VN, S45VN, Elmax etc? I know I would rather give up a slight advantage in edge retention, to have something I can sharpen myself, much more easily.
Ok, rant over lol
TLDR: supersteels can be super annoying if your sharpening skills can’t keep up.
Edit: yes I know S35VN and the others are still super steels, but they get so easily overlooked nowadays.

I understand the concept being grasped for here, but all of those steels are plenty “super” especially compared to 20CV/M390. I could see if you said you longed for the days of yore when 420HC and 1095 were standard and 440C and ATS34 were the shit.

 

[Hashishiin]

14c28n is my Goldilocks stainless.

I don't get too exited over M390 or S110V.

3V, K390, and M4 get my blood pumping a bit more. I would like to try Cru-wear one day. ZDP-189 is pretty sweet.

I don't mind harder carbide steels.

DMT plates make sharpening pretty easy.

You will like Cruwear a lot if 14c, 3V, K390, and M4 are your jam.

 

[TheFactor]

That’s what I love about the sharpmaker, (the ease of being able to bring an edge back quickly) so I think for the time being I’m going to stay away from 20CV/M390 for my daily users and try to snatch up more of those discontinued ZTs with the S35VN off the exchange on here. (got a 0909 in the mail, and I could definitely see a CRK in the near future :-D )

Sharp makers work great for touching up a edge but not for re-profiling from my experience anyway. When you’ve sharpened it so many times or you have chips and can’t get that laser consistent edge it’s time to re-profile and that’s when a wicked edge or edge pro is needed .

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

Im theory, according to Larrin’s charts anyways, 1095 at 58 HRC has a toughness of about 10 ft/lbs while Cruwear at 62 HRC has a touch over 20 ft/lbs of toughness. There seems to be a certain mythos about 1095 that doesn’t really hold up to the measured data. I’d take cruwear over 1095 on a working blade any day.

Better to compare at the same hardness: 1095 at 62 HRC is closer to 5 ft/lbs and Cruwear is about 4x that...

I also have a Wicked Edge (I forget which model), with stones from 50/100 up to 1000/1200 and some 5/3.5 & 1, 0.5 leather that I haven’t tried yet. I have like $400 invested in that damn thing but I’ve tried a few knives with it and didn’t like it at all.
I need more time/practice with that for sure, because I’ve heard/seen people get awesome results like mirror edge or close to it with this setup.
But time is not on my side, I’m usually at work making money to buy more knives

My advice is to buy a set of cheap, non-serrated steak knives to learn on (I got a set of 8 Chinese-made Laguiole-style steak knives for around $20 on Amazon). They're usually made of unidentified stainless steel, so they don't take a long time to sharpen, and nobody is likely to notice if the bevels aren't perfect as long as they can cut a steak.

 

[Kragnut]

M390 and S35 VN blades are fantastic. But unless you are an expert with waterstones or the type that can sharpen on a belt without ruining your knife, you really need a benchtop sharpening system with large stones and an angle arm like the Edge Pro etc to hone them effectively and consistently.

 

[BJE]

I’m a contradiction wrapped in an enigma, I love some simple steels like 1095, 440c/154cm, bucks 420HC, ect. Especially the fine grained stuff like the Sandvic steels, those are honestly my sweet spot.
However I also love D2 .

Not a huge fan of S30V, I use and carry it fine, but dislike the slick feeling it gives on a stone.

No problems here with daily touch ups, it’s quick and easy using my little worksharp field sharpener I keep in my tool box, have one at home as well, also a plain feeling of ceramic rod works well for touch ups which I also use.

12C27 is honestly all I ever need or want, however, I do prefer steel run a bit on the hard side, I imagine I would like ZDP189 though never used it, I like Fallkniven SG3 though not sure how that compares to todays steels, VG-10 is another that I enjoy.

I still want a knife with M4, cruwear, maxamet, that new Larrinite stuff, 20cv, ect. But it’s not a deciding factor on new purchases, could help sway a bit just so I can try them, though I feel I would be just as happy with 12c27 or N690 .

In short, as long as it’s not soft and gummy or very slippery feeling on a stone I’m happy.

 

[kafolarbear]

Better to compare at the same hardness: 1095 at 62 HRC is closer to 5 ft/lbs and Cruwear is about 4x that...

Sure but my point was that 1095 at 56-58 HRC seems to be peoples idea of an unbreakable ultra tough steel when there are many steels that are several times tougher even at far higher HRC’s.

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

Sure but my point was that 1095 at 56-58 HRC seems to be peoples idea of an unbreakable ultra tough steel when there are many steels that are several times tougher even at far higher HRC’s.

I think that historic reputation is because toughness is 1095's "best" attribute (compared to edge retention or corrosion resistance)

 

[DavidABQ]

I have knives in both S30 and S35. Both are easy for me to sharpen. I don’t have any of the new top tier steels like 20cv or M390 so I cannot comment on how hard it is to sharpen but from various posts on the board I have no desire to own a knife with difficult to sharpen steels. I use an old Spyderco Sharpmaker and I have no desire to go out and buy diamond stones or rods. I can sympathize with the OP.

 

[NG VI]

S35VN isn't and never was a supersteel, it's just a nice modern cutlery stainless

 

[tony281sc2]

S35VN isn't and never was a supersteel, it's just a nice modern cutlery stainless

Hey if S35VN (and 45) been good enough for CRK knives for about what, 15 years ? Then it’s good enough for me

 

[tony281sc2]

S35VN isn't and never was a supersteel, it's just a nice modern cutlery stainless

One of the best balanced steels out there however when you take all factors into consideration. It’s tough, holds an edge plenty good, and isn’t ridiculous to sharpen. Oh and stainless too

 

[tony281sc2]

I tried selling my mefp Hinderer wharnie a couple weeks ago on the forum, didn't get a single reply.

I know I saw that! Would’ve loved to have bought it, but I didn’t have the money at the time.

 

[sadmin]

Didnt read the entire thread so apologies if this has been mentioned, but with 20cv I start first with my 240grit sil. carbide stone then start a progression onto venev / spyderco ceramic. I find it moves a the process along a little quicker, else I just get a mirror smooth edge with no bite.