Titanium and S30V...........chopsticks??

even your simple designs are a lot of work. small diameter, long length, complex designs, tapered, all adds up to a huge pain in the ass to make even on a cnc.
 
Larry Davidson is an excellent knifemaker/machinist as well, you might want to give him a try.
 
It looks like http://www.emachineshop.com might make them for me. It looks like I can get the tapered titanium stock I need too. The third design is the one I'm going with, because it doesn't require anything special. Flashlight bodies (look at Surefire) regularly are given stylings such as this, so I'm hoping they'll be able to do it OK.

Thanks for all the points in the right direction! :) When I get them made, you guys will be the first to receive pics. :D
 
I have a CNC lathe and turn titanium for a living, and I wouldn't even touch them. Turning a long part with a length to width ratio above around 5 is going to chatter considerably, so will require a special setup. Of the designs, the one with the turned grooves will be easiest to make, so would be the cheapest for someone to make. The slots on the backside present a real workholding problem. If someone had a rotary axis on a mill (which I also have) they could hold the part with it sticking out with the side of a slot cutter. Getting it held properly will be tough because you're holding onto a taper, but the real issue is they are drawn to be wedge shaped, which adds considerable difficulty. I would suggest 2 or 3 straight slots going across instead. If they are milled from the end, it's doable, but then requires a fixture or vise that's rigid and around 10" high. The ideal machine to make them is a CNC swiss turning center, which can easily cut the taper and grooves in one pass without deflection.
 
Ooh...thanks for the feedback.

Disclaimer: I have never machined anything, so I acknowledge I'm terribly ignorant on such matters.

I didn't realize it'd be that difficult to machine something like this. Hrm...

Time to make some revisions! Thanks again for the feedback - I'm going to try and figure out a way to get the styling I want, without the difficulty.

Question for you, though; how the hell do they make the bodies of Surefire flashlights, if these kinds of cuts are so difficult? Is it just because the entire chopstick is tapered, or is it something else? Thanks! :)
 
I think its more a question of production for those. Theres nothing "hard" abotu them for someone properly equipped, but the setup and producing such a small run would have overhead. The surefires are being made in such high volumes that any tooling and setup fees get washed away by the sheer numbers that are then made. Someone can correct me if I am wrong
 
Ah...I see.

I have about a dozen people that are each interested in a set. I'd imagine I'd need about ten times that though, to actually get the volume up to a reasonable level where it would negate the overhead.

Funny, making it up in volume... :p

Hrm...

I'm still waiting for my quote from emachineshop. I'm wondering what their numbers will be...
 
I think TikTock said it best. Sure I could make those. I don't think you would want to pay for them if I charged my normal hourly rate though. They would cost thousands of bucks. It's a matter of being set up for it. A lot of parts like flashlight parts use a lathe that has a bar feeder and live tooling in it. This means they can do both milling and turning in one operation and go non stop all day long. It takes a lot of effort and expense to hash out the programs and manufacturing issues, so those types of machines, which typically cost $250K on up, usually focus on big runs of technical parts like those flashlight parts. Titanium is very expensive, and it actually costs more per pound for small stock than big stock because it has to be worked more to get it that way. If you can find someone willing to make them for "only" hundreds of dollars, you'll be ahead of the game. There are a lot of hungry machinists out there.

You do good design work. It will only help you in the long run to understand the manufacturing issues with products like these so you can have them made more cost effectively and make more profit. Good luck with your venture.
 
btboone said:
The slots on the backside present a real workholding problem.
Click to expand...

Unless somebody runs sinker edm machines, like I do. It would be a lot easier since the machining forces are so much smaller. A couple of our wire machines at work have spinners in them, and it would easy to do in there. But I guarantee that the cost would go up quite a bit.

Very few of the parts that I deal with are tapered like your chopsticks. The renderings help out quite a bit in understanding exactly what you're looking for.

I might have missed it, but how long and how thick do you want them? How close to your renderings do you want? (I'm used to having tolerances to help guide production steps.)

Jamie
 
polarbearforge said:
Unless somebody runs sinker edm machines, like I do. It would be a lot easier since the machining forces are so much smaller. A couple of our wire machines at work have spinners in them, and it would easy to do in there. But I guarantee that the cost would go up quite a bit.

Very few of the parts that I deal with are tapered like your chopsticks. The renderings help out quite a bit in understanding exactly what you're looking for.

I might have missed it, but how long and how thick do you want them? How close to your renderings do you want? (I'm used to having tolerances to help guide production steps.)

Jamie
Click to expand...


Interesting.....I wouldn't have thought of an EDM being used to make round shafts...However, it does give me an idea on how to make them on a wire EDM. Holding raw stock in the collet block on two ends with dead stops...Rotate 5x for the cut to get the pentagon or whatever geometric shape....Looking at it this way, I think the wire would be alright to use.

Just a thought...


Bill
 
Why do they have to be machined? I've never worked titanium and could understand if the stuff is just to difficult to work with lower tech equipment such as grinders and files, but if you're also willing to settle for stainless steel, then why not simply make 'em the old fashioned way? A long tapered piece may be a difficult proposition for a lathe, but it's no problem for a craftsman with a good eye and a sharp $5 file. I'm not saying that hand work would be any cheaper, depending on which design you settled on, but that would certainly open up the number of makers who could do it.
 
I can do it. But what are you willing to pay for (10) or more sets? That's the bottom line, of course. 3 feet of 6Al-4V is about $50.00 so the stock starts adding up too.
 
If you really want something like that made, pony up the $$$, have a thousand sets made and peddle them to SharperImage or someplace like that. Otherwise I don't see how it could possibly be cost-effective. As the machinists here have said, it's all about the makeready and tooling. There's a reason why manufacturers have minimum orders.
 
Everybody thinks of chopsticks as the Japanese type , why ?? I was raised on the Chinese type which doesn't come to a sharp point . In any case the design submitted is far too complex and unnecessary so.Also sharp grooves are not so good for hygeine , too easy for bacteria to hide in.
 
He could have gotten Alan to do it, if he had asked. I've got lots of the stock, but I'll only do it the way I want or can do it. The designs proffered by the OP are not real workable for me. Nice desgning, but I wouldn't use them to eat with...
 
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