Titanium Handle

[STR]

One of my faves since it first came out even though its long discontinued now is the CRKT S2. That was a big home run IMO and CRKT should get it back out and start another limited run of them just like those first ones from yesteryear only using a different steel like a powder metal or something in the new ones.

STR

 

[Thalestin]

Actually it is lighter than steel and thats what we are talking about I think.

For example a 12" long 1" diameter round bar of stainless steel weighs 2.67 lbs
A 12" long 1" diameter titanium round bar weighs 1.54 lbs.

Following that same line of thinking a .150 thickness titanium frame lock with a 5" handle will be significantly lighter than an identical stainless frame lock with a 5" handle. Lighter weight is an advantage to titanium among many other advantages which is why they like making things like the space shuttle out of ti vs stainless. It means less fuel to get it off the ground and into space and it of course will hold up better to extremes of temperature and variations from one end to the other than steel. Looking at the above ratio for stainless vs titanium, if you take two identical pieces of sheet or round bar or nuggets or space shuttle of ti and stainless, stainless will out weigh titanium by nearly 1.75 x. So in something like the space shuttle, lets say in titanium it would weigh 40,000 pounds, then a same size space shuttle in stainless would be approximately 70,000 pounds plus or minus.

STR

True, but a liner lock with thiner steel will be lighter. Also nested liners in g10 etc will be significantly lighter

 

[tiguy7]

I have Benchmade 943 Osbornes in Carbon fiber, Aluminum, and Titanium. They weigh 71gm, 81gm, and 91gm respectively. The Ti frame has an open back. My William Henry Tom Brown Quest "survival" knife with a 3 1/4" ZDP 189 San Mai blade and a Titanium handle weighs in at 56gm. The Ti handle has been skeletonized on the inside. Because of Titanium's high strength to weight ratio, it can be used in lesser amounts to achieve the same overall performance.

 

[STR]

True, but a liner lock with thiner steel will be lighter. Also nested liners in g10 etc will be significantly lighter

This could go on forever. Nested liners of ti in G10 would be lighter still and so would a liner lock folder with full ti liners vs one with full steel liners. The point is ti is lighter and that can be used quite effectively to reduce the weight of a carry folder in more than just slab type folders.

STR

 

[T.K.C.]

I LOVE titanium handled knives. I like the combo of titanium & G-10/CF etc. They are comfy in the hand, and light.

 

[gwlee]

Actually it is lighter than steel and thats what we are talking about I think.

For example a 12" long 1" diameter round bar of stainless steel weighs 2.67 lbs
A 12" long 1" diameter titanium round bar weighs 1.54 lbs.

Following that same line of thinking a .150 thickness titanium frame lock with a 5" handle will be significantly lighter than an identical stainless frame lock with a 5" handle. Lighter weight is an advantage to titanium among many other advantages which is why they like making things like the space shuttle out of ti vs stainless. It means less fuel to get it off the ground and into space and it of course will hold up better to extremes of temperature and variations from one end to the other than steel. Looking at the above ratio for stainless vs titanium, if you take two identical pieces of sheet or round bar or nuggets or space shuttle of ti and stainless, stainless will out weigh titanium by nearly 1.75 x. So in something like the space shuttle, lets say in titanium it would weigh 40,000 pounds, then a same size space shuttle in stainless would be approximately 70,000 pounds plus or minus.

STR

There's no doubt that raw Ti is lighter than some other materials. However, based on the Ti knives in my collection, finished knives that incorporate Ti handles can weigh more than their Non-Ti counterparts. The Ti Military is a good example, so I don't buy a Ti knife and automatically expect that it will be light in weight because it incorporates Ti.

 

[tiguy7]

The Ti Military is 44gm heavier than the Carbon fiber Military. 162gm for the former vs 118 for the latter.

 

[tomsch]

I EDC a Sage II quite a bit also because it is kind on my pocket as mentioned above. Fits the hand great even with the smooth scales. I picked mine off ebay, NIB, for $135 so deals are out there.

 

[Dagon]

There is one thing I don't like about titanium handles: they look usually so featureless. Perhaps that is why I think that the Sebenza -despite its obvious qualities- looks somewhat boring; or why I prefer the look & feel of the Sage 1 over the Sage 2.
I do like titanium quite a bit more when there are inlays or other nifty design features, For example have a look at the Klotzli Walker 06: some cut-outs and a mix of polished and sandblasted titanium make for a more interesting visual style:

 

[pinkfloyd101]

I like ti handles because they are very strong and I also like the feel of ti. I believe ti is the most durable handle material there is.

 

[MikeC]

Pinkfloyd 101, we have a WINNER. Titanium is awesome stuff and just about the perfect handle material available for folders, IMO. Corrosion resistance really corrosion proof for all intensives purposes, lateral strength, weight, etc. Titanium is the ultimate bend don't break material.

 

[Stainz]

See two Ti containing items below. For weight savings, given equal tensile strength, etc, between Titanium and stainless steels, you generally save ~40%. You gain high temperature operation, too - important for a supersonic fighter - like the Soviet's Mig 25. Sadly, they didn't have Ti - so more massive SS was needed - and larger engines - and less fuel. Fortunately for them, we never built the fleet of B-70 bombers.

It's not a bad idea in a firearm - on paper. That S&W 296 AirLite Ti will be my only such firearm - it's care is too restrictive. Careful cleaning - no short cased rounds (.44 Specials only - no .44 Russians!). It works great in the frame-lock Benchmade 760, of course.

Stainz

PS The current S&W version of that 2.5" 5-shot .44 Special, the 396NG, has a SS cylinder!

 

[gwlee]

You say, "would be" and "can be." I have been looking for one. Can you provide some examples of quality Ti-handled folders in current production that are lighter than their non-Ti counterparts?

 

[jakeyjake4528]

Ti is the way to go.

I too find that my two slab ti knives are heavier then my other ones-i like the extra dense feeling.

My spyerdco chokwe feels like my lightest ti folder.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

You say, "would be" and "can be." I have been looking for one. Can you provide some examples of quality Ti-handled folders in current production that are lighter than their non-Ti counterparts?

A knife has to be of similar construction for the Ti to be lighter. Obviously an all metal (Ti) military is going to be heavier than a part metal part synthetic normal G10 Military. Now if they made the military with thin Ti liners with the standard G10 scales then it would be lighter. Or if they made a military out of stainless steel, the Ti would be lighter. But people like to see Ti as it has an 'elite' feel to it. Plus makers like to use a big chunk of Ti so that they can incorporate a beefy lock bar into a frame lock knife.

The only way for a Ti knife to be lighter is if it is made in the same fashion as it's counterpart, only replacing stainless with Ti. If you don't compare knives with similar construction than it is like apples and oranges.

 

[gwlee]

Now if they made the military with thin Ti liners with the standard G10 scales then it would be lighter. Or if they made a military out of stainless steel, the Ti would be lighter. .

So far, I have heard people say "could be," would be," and "can be," which is speculation, and I have also heard some flat assertions that Ti knives "are" lighter, but no real world examples of light Ti knives, so far.

 

[jakeyjake4528]

So far, I have heard people say "could be," would be," and "can be," which is speculation, and I have also heard some flat assertions that Ti knives "are" lighter, but no real world examples of light Ti knives, so far.

How about the buck TNT or waimea?

Most ti knives are thick slabs, and carry weight, heft. The knife is designed around the ti slabs.

The reason my fill in the blank knife has steel liners over ti is due to the cost. Of course a thin steel liner with featherweight G10 is going to be lighter then an all ti slabbed knife

 

[Cynic2701]

gwlee: It all comes down to simple physical chemistry.

The titanium used for structural components in buildings/aircraft/space shuttles/knives has a molecular structure called a body centered cube. Steel, heated to austenitec ranges and higher, has a face centered cube. Basically, the ways in which the atoms are bonded to each other have distinct types; and even individual elements can form different types of structures based on their bonds. For example, carbon can be formed in the soft graphite - which is essentially a hexagonal lattice of carbon bonds - or it can form the extremely hard and dense diamond, which is a tetrahedral face centered cube. These are called allotropes.

As there are only a set number of atoms within a given volume, each allotrope of an individual element (if it has more than one) will be of a different density: simply, if you pack more atoms in a given volume, it will have a greater volume.

In application to this question of Titanium being lighter, Titanium has two advantages. Titanium has a 47.867 Standard Atomic Weight, in comparison to Iron's 55.845 - Titanium, being higher on the periodic table, has less mass at the atomic level. Secondly, for our purposes, stainless steels used for knives is at least in the austenitec phase or higher. Structural Titanium's allotrope is that of a body-centered cube, where austenitec or higher Iron allotropes are face-centered cubes. Quite simply, in a body-centered cube there are 9 atoms which bond in the given volume, where in a face-centered cube there are 14. Thus, Titanium and Iron, in the uses in which we are discussing - that of knife components - will always be lighter because it is:
A. Lighter at the atomic level.
B. Less dense at the molecular level.

To get a more in depth explanation, the wikipedia article on Bravais Lattice's would be a good start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravais_lattice

 

[gwlee]

gwlee: It all comes down to simple physical chemistry.

The titanium used for structural components in buildings/aircraft/space shuttles/knives has a molecular structure called a body centered cube. Steel, heated to austenitec ranges and higher, has a face centered cube. Basically, the ways in which the atoms are bonded to each other have distinct types; and even individual elements can form different types of structures based on their bonds. For example, carbon can be formed in the soft graphite - which is essentially a hexagonal lattice of carbon bonds - or it can form the extremely hard and dense diamond, which is a tetrahedral face centered cube. These are called allotropes.

As there are only a set number of atoms within a given volume, each allotrope of an individual element (if it has more than one) will be of a different density: simply, if you pack more atoms in a given volume, it will have a greater volume.

In application to this question of Titanium being lighter, Titanium has two advantages. Titanium has a 47.867 Standard Atomic Weight, in comparison to Iron's 55.845 - Titanium, being higher on the periodic table, has less mass at the atomic level. Secondly, for our purposes, stainless steels used for knives is at least in the austenitec phase or higher. Structural Titanium's allotrope is that of a body-centered cube, where austenitec or higher Iron allotropes are face-centered cubes. Quite simply, in a body-centered cube there are 9 atoms which bond in the given volume, where in a face-centered cube there are 14. Thus, Titanium and Iron, in the uses in which we are discussing - that of knife components - will always be lighter because it is:
A. Lighter at the atomic level.
B. Less dense at the molecular level.

To get a more in depth explanation, the wikipedia article on Bravais Lattice's would be a good start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravais_lattice

Thanks for taking the time to explain the underlying chemistry that explains why Ti is a light material. My question is about the properties of finished knives rather than the properties of the raw material: Are the Ti-handled knives that are on the market today, as some people here insist, generally lighter than their non-Ti handled counterparts or not?

Those that say no, cite examples. Those that say yes, say "can be," "should be," and "would be," but cite no examples. Unfortunately, I can't order a Spyderco Can Be, a Bench Made Should Be, or a CRK Would Be from my favorite dealer.

 

[gwlee]

How about the buck TNT or waimea?

Thanks, I will check them out.