To all BM 630 Skirmish critics

rs422 · Mar 20, 2005

Gryffin said:
I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering from Georgia Tech, I know what I'm talking about here. Go grab a Statics textbook, and see for yourself.

I went through this same nonsense on USENET in rec.guns a while back, with those people who thought that cutting flutes in a barrel somehow made it stiffer. Just ain't so, sorry.

I have degrees and over 25 years experience in the field of turbine engines and "oil and gas" and computer design systems. A degree does not mean you know what you are talking about. Look at the history of skyscrapers and you will learn a thing or two. If you were an engineer with real world experience you would have understood what I wrote and not just gone off about what degree you have. Who are you trying to convince? Others or yourself? School just gets you ready to learn from the real world. Go on pick up some books on "I beams" and the development of them and how the design of the grove on the sword influenced the design of the "I beam". History is the key to understanding why things are designed the way they are, that is the history of engineering. And nothing, not even degrees can replace real world experance.

deputy tom · Mar 20, 2005

I'm not critical yet.I can't wait to get my hands on one of these.tom.

Gryffin · Mar 20, 2005

rs422 said:
I have degrees and over 25 years experience in the field of turbine engines and "oil and gas" and computer design systems. A degree does not mean you know what you are talking about. Look at the history of skyscrapers and you will learn a thing or two. If you were an engineer with real world experience you would have understood what I wrote and not just gone off about what degree you have. Who are you trying to convince? Others or yourself? School just gets you ready to learn from the real world. Go on pick up some books on "I beams" and the development of them and how the design of the grove on the sword influenced the design of the "I beam". History is the key to understanding why things are designed the way they are, that is the history of engineering. And nothing, not even degrees can replace real world experance.

Sheesh, you might wanna try switching to decaf.

If you really have all that experience, then go on, give me an example of how you can increase the stiffness of a beam by removing material. Not by changing the shape, as in my I-beam example, but by drilling holes or other removal. Really, go on. This I wanna see.

I worked for 10 years as an aerospace engineer, I did this for a living.

A fuller on a blade works the same as fluting a barrel, it reduced weight while *minimizing* the reduction in strength. It in no way makes the blade stronger than it would be without the fuller. If you beleive that, then I feel sorry for your employer.

If you don't have anything resembling an argument, you can at least try to be civil. That was wholly uncalled for.

SIFU1A · Mar 21, 2005

Ascoe said:
The holes is part of Neil Blackwood's original Skirmish design. They won't ever be changing that. The only thing benchmade changed design wise was four holes instead of three to get around the trademark three holes that the Spyker uses (I think?). If you REALLY want one with a thumbstud, break out the savings account and head to www.blackwoodknives.com

was thinking of doing just that and neil told me he was disco'ing the skirmish, he didnt have any either at the time and didnt seem enthusiastic about making one at all, happened about 2-3 months ago.

imho the skirmish would be improved with tip up carry and a better designed pocket clip, the holes dont bother me (nor sal glesser though the knife design did PO one unnamed maker IIRC) its really a nice knife, well made, good lock/steel, good fit/finish, my favorite BM.

rs422 · Mar 21, 2005

Gryffin said:
Sheesh, you might wanna try switching to decaf.

If you really have all that experience, then go on, give me an example of how you can increase the stiffness of a beam by removing material. Not by changing the shape, as in my I-beam example, but by drilling holes or other removal. Really, go on. This I wanna see.

I worked for 10 years as an aerospace engineer, I did this for a living.

A fuller on a blade works the same as fluting a barrel, it reduced weight while *minimizing* the reduction in strength. It in no way makes the blade stronger than it would be without the fuller. If you beleive that, then I feel sorry for your employer.

If you don't have anything resembling an argument, you can at least try to be civil. That was wholly uncalled for.

Not too sure why you are so upset.

Sorry son, I am not convinced.

I was just having my normal fun, you know where I call thing as I see them and all the fools get piss off at me for call their bluffs.

There is no talking to some people, they will always get mad when you call them on their s?it. Then they use word like "civil" and "uncalled for", to try to save face.

You look blue in the face kid.

You can not argue with real world experience.

Go on have the last word son, I am done, and I need a good laugh.

Gryffin · Mar 21, 2005

rs422 said:
Then they use word like "civil" and "uncalled for", to try to save face.

Oh, you mean, just like how some people will say "shucks, I was just funnin'" when they get called on THEIR sh*t, and realize they don't have a leg to stand on? :yawn:

If you thought I was upset, then you've obviously never seen me upset!

Go on back to turning wrenches in the "real world", and leave the engineering to engineers, pops. I am done, and I had a good laugh.

666seth · Mar 21, 2005

Now if you really wanna go wild here some more variations:
(avail. at moteng.com)

Stylish black blade with gold anodized Ti-handle

Black Blade, black handle!

These two variations are also available for the mini skirmish!

Man, a Skirmish for almost every taste!

666seth · Mar 21, 2005

Well, then you can also always go to Neil Blackwoods page and order the "original Skirmish"

And this pic shows what is about a size comparison to the mini skirmish (without thumb holes!)

This should now cover almost everything Skirmish!

Gryffin · Mar 21, 2005

666seth said:
Stylish black blade with gold anodized Ti-handle

Man-o-man, that gold & black one is sah-WEET!!!

Gotta check that out... is it based on the 630, or 635??

Gryffin · Mar 21, 2005

666seth said:
Well, then you can also always go to Neil Blackwoods page and order the "original Skirmish"

Wow, that "original Skirmish" is a one bad muthah (shut yo mouth!)

Guess you don't clip THAT one to your pocket, unless you have very big pockets... and preferably suspenders!

Saberman · Mar 21, 2005

Glasgow_kiss said:
I really don't like Benchmade (and originally Mr. Blackwood) ripping off Spyderco with unathorized use of an opening hole. Even if it had a thousand small holes it still has the trademark Spyderco hole, imo.

Regardless of your feelings about Benchmade. Neil got permission from Sal to use the Spydie hole. Along as many other custom makers. Sal is know to allow others to use the Spydie hole if they donate some money to one of his fav. charities (which is really cool of Sal). So he wasn't ripping off the Spyderco. And Benchmade has had a deal in the past with Spyderco to use the Spydie hole (old school AFCK). Do they still have a arrangement? Don't know. I'm sure things have been worked out ,or the knife wouldn't be made...

But please don't start a mud slinging match about this, it has aready been done to death before.

666seth · Mar 21, 2005

Gryffin said:
......is it based on the 630, or 635??

According to moteng.com both knives are available with black blade with gold handle or black blade with black handle!

666seth · Mar 21, 2005

swingshot said:
......But why aluminium handles?.........

It's not aluminum handles, its just gray anodized Ti handle with silver dots.

Hope that clears it

GarageBoy · Mar 21, 2005

Blackwood may have a license, but BM doesn't. (BM made the holes oval)

Garlic · Mar 21, 2005

dang. the non-rainbow skirmishes look great, i think BM will be happy with the test run.

i'd probably get the 630 just to have that much titanium in my grip. gotta love Ti handles.

dialex · Mar 22, 2005

rs422 said:
So if I drill a hole in my head and make that my trademark then all the other stiffs out there that have one hole in their head will have to put more holes in their head because I will be holding the trademark of the one hole in the head design.

Just thinking about what one can do with a trademark.

Spyderco trademarked the opening round hole. According to that, you may drill a hole in your head without infringing any patents, unless you're using the hole to open the skull (although this would make Hannibal Lecter's job much easier)

dialex · Mar 22, 2005

Saberman said:
Regardless of your feelings about Benchmade. Neil got permission from Sal to use the Spydie hole. Along as many other custom makers. Sal is know to allow others to use the Spydie hole if they donate some money to one of his fav. charities (which is really cool of Sal). So he wasn't ripping off the Spyderco. And Benchmade has had a deal in the past with Spyderco to use the Spydie hole (old school AFCK). Do they still have a arrangement? Don't know. I'm sure things have been worked out ,or the knife wouldn't be made...

But please don't start a mud slinging match about this, it has aready been done to death before.

It is true that Spyderco let third parties to use the roundhole (which I also think is a great thing), but this does not applies to production knives / manufacturers, only to custom knifemakers and usually they are limited to 50 pcs. a year. So I think there is something wrong with the 630 after all.
However, I wonder what would it happen if someone would trademark a cylindrical thumbstud as an opening device?

Is there any difference between patenting a round hole and a thumbstud?

SIFU1A · Mar 22, 2005

666seth said:
Well, then you can also always go to Neil Blackwoods page and order the "original Skirmish"

And this pic shows what is about a size comparison to the mini skirmish (without thumb holes!)

This should now cover almost everything Skirmish!

like i said above no ya cant he disco'd the skirmish, or thats what neil told me anyway, and none were on the site for sale, are there some on the site now???? if so i'll buy it.............

SIFU1A · Mar 22, 2005

dialex said:
It is true that Spyderco let third parties to use the roundhole (which I also think is a great thing), but this does not applies to production knives / manufacturers, only to custom knifemakers and usually they are limited to 50 pcs. a year. So I think there is something wrong with the 630 after all.
However, I wonder what would it happen if someone would trademark a cylindrical thumbstud as an opening device? Is there any difference between patenting a round hole and a thumbstud?

sal let BM use a round hole on the mod 800 AFCK, the old boxes i have have a sticker that says 'licensed by spyderco' on them, so he did let at least one production use the round hole.

brownshoe · Mar 22, 2005

I don't care for the skirmish design, but that aside, the design is certainly not original. The blade shape, hole opener, frame lock, holes in the blade, holes in the handle are all derivitive of other major knife makers and production blades (Reeves, Onion, Glasser, Emerson, etc.).

With that recurve and holes, it looks like a spyderco boa, but when you see it next to the emerson, the recurve also matches the emerson real close.

To all BM 630 Skirmish critics

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