To Chiruwa or not - That is the question

snowwolf

snowwolf

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Nov 11, 2013
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I'm a big fan of Chiruwa (full tang) handles mainly because I might have a false sense of security.
I say false sense of security because the kuks I use/beat the most are mainly standard rat tails and I never had any of these fail or loosening up.

This morning I decided to open the collection box to appreciate each pieces carefully. It's been a while since I did it.
Ouch! some of the handles are suffering from serious shrinking.

This one is the worst of them all:
IMG_20150426_084321.jpg

The rat tails handles also shrink but it seams much less apparent. My oldest Kukri is a standard rat tail and once in a while I file the metal but cap to match the handle size and that's it.

I must say I'm the one to blame because these pieces are known to shrink and need proper love and maintenance to keep them healthy.
Our local knifemakers are well aware of this issue and use either synthetic, stabilized or much older natural material that had plenty of time to set (all less prone to shrinkage). But they will also charge 3, 4, 5 times and more than the price of the blades we are getting from Nepal.

The piece in the picture is one I like enough to consider a re-handling job by a professional. Even if I include this additional cost, I still think the product well worth every penny I invested in it.

But it got me go hmmmmmmm. Next time, I will think twice before I jump on a Chiruwa handle Kuk and if I go for it, I'll pay more attention to the handle material.

So here's my request to you guys - HI uses antler, bones, horns and all sort of woods.
Have you notice which woods and other natural material shrink most or less than others?

Thanks for your inputs
 
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and the relative humidity here hovers around 64%-72%. Any handle material I get actually re-hydrates by itself overtime, and shrinkage is almost a non-problem; however, I still use Pugs Mineral oil, BLO, 4 0 Steel Wool, BLO, process, for every new blade, as soon as I get it, and any shrinkage is pretty much taken care of with Pugs care process. If there is any shrinkage, I'll just file it away, honestly I have only had to do that with 1 traditional handled blade, and it was to file down the buttplate to be flush with the handle material.

I've noticed that horn seems to come to me more shrunk than any of the other materials, but after treatment, they were perfect, and have been since.

I've had a few Chiruwa handles with some shrinkage when arrived, but after treating it with Pugs process, they were perfectly fine, and have been since.
 
Snow, I agree with Cul, mostly what is happening is your handles are just dehydrated. Soaking them in mineral oil occasionally at a minimum is really all it takes. I am betting if you took a bottle of mineral oil, poured it into an open top can and soaked your handles for a couple days, they would plump right back up and the gaps would go away. If you want something that needs no maintenance, then no "natural" materials will work. You would have to re-handle everything with either fully stabilized materials or something like Micarta. But if you don't mind doing a bit of pre-conditioning then the process exactly as described by Cul would also set everything to a bit more stable where it would be only minimal shrinkage over time and very little ongoing maintenance. Soak those handles :D
 
I did the soak in mineral oil with my m43 where the handle shrunk a bit. Didn't bring it totally back, but it's much, much better.
 
Ok guys - I'll give it a try and soak that handle in mineral oil for a while.
 
I'm really interested to hear your results on this one. I ended up pulling the trigger on a chiruwa as well and will be interested to know how the maintenance goes, please post back in a few days if you can!
 
One of the reasons I really like using pure tung oil to treat wood handles is that it polymerizes after the curing period and locks in any moisture in the wood. I've noticed much less shrinkage on the handles that have gotten extensive tung oil treatments. It does take a long time to cure, though, and many coats, so patience is necessary.
 
cul4u01 said:
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and the relative humidity here hovers around 64%-72%. Any handle material I get actually re-hydrates by itself overtime, and shrinkage is almost a non-problem; however, I still use Pugs Mineral oil, BLO, 4 0 Steel Wool, BLO, process, for every new blade, as soon as I get it, and any shrinkage is pretty much taken care of with Pugs care process. If there is any shrinkage, I'll just file it away, honestly I have only had to do that with 1 traditional handled blade, and it was to file down the buttplate to be flush with the handle material.

I've noticed that horn seems to come to me more shrunk than any of the other materials, but after treatment, they were perfect, and have been since.

I've had a few Chiruwa handles with some shrinkage when arrived, but after treating it with Pugs process, they were perfectly fine, and have been since.
Click to expand...

Where can you find Pugs Mineral oil... or will just any mineral oil do?
 
00Turok said:
Where can you find Pugs Mineral oil... or will just any mineral oil do?
Click to expand...

Pugs is for Pugs75, he is a forumite here.

His process for handle care is a 3 - 4 day soak in mineral oil, 1 day soak in BLO, use 4 0 steel wool to sand/clean the handle, do a BLO soak again, then repeat the BLO/Steel wool cycle again, if needed. If more cycles are needed, then he will do that too.

Sorry for any confusion.
 
cul4u01 said:
Pugs is for Pugs75, he is a forumite here.

His process for handle care is a 3 - 4 day soak in mineral oil, 1 day soak in BLO, use 4 0 steel wool to sand/clean the handle, do a BLO soak again, then repeat the BLO/Steel wool cycle again, if needed. If more cycles are needed, then he will do that too.

Sorry for any confusion.
Click to expand...

I must remind you I'm new to this forum. What is BLO? :confused:
 
Hi 00T BLO is Boiled Linseed Oil If you use it be VERY careful with the rags ect. once you are done as they can be combustible if not handled right and can suddenly ignite your trash can if wadded up and thrown away.
 
Shavru said:
Hi 00T BLO is Boiled Linseed Oil If you use it be VERY careful with the rags ect. once you are done as they can be combustible if not handled right and can suddenly ignite your trash can if wadded up and thrown away.
Click to expand...

OMG you people are trying to kill me. LOL :D

So after soaking in mineral oil, I dip a rag in BLO & wipe the handle down?
How many coats do I apply?
Do these BLO rags spontaneously combust, or do they require a spark?
Has anyone tired using BLO cotton balls as tinder, or is that too dangerous?
 
No exact number of coats can be quoted. I just keep doing it till I get what I want. If the wood looks nourished and not dry at all your probably good to go. I occasionally hit the handle again now and then just to keep it hydrated.

BLO is just like any other petroleum product, a rag soaked in turpentine or paint thinner, etc can combust if wadded up and left in the right environment.

I generally don't even use a rag, I use finger dips and work it in with my hands. If you have a large area I just use a little corner of a rag and if you just leave the rag laid out, hung on the side of a trash can or whatever it's usually ok.

Never tried the tinder idea. Seems like it would work though. Keep them in a air tight container I reckon.
 
00Turok said:
...Do these BLO rags spontaneously combust, or do they require a spark?
Click to expand...

Wikipedia explains it better than I would:

Spontaneous combustion
Rags soaked with linseed oil stored in a pile are considered a fire hazard because they provide a large surface area for oxidation of the oil, and the oil oxidises quickly. The oxidation of linseed oil is an exothermic reaction, which accelerates as the temperature of the rags increases. When heat accumulation exceeds the rate of heat dissipation into the environment, the temperature increases and may eventually become hot enough to make the rags spontaneously combust.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oil
 
We learn something new every day on this forum, and not just about knives.

Now if someone can post the formula for the abovementioned chemical reaction, it will be the icing on the cake. I'm sure that there are a number of people here who can do that. Probably also people who know how to make icing for cakes.
 
00Turok said:
Do these BLO rags spontaneously combust, or do they require a spark?
Click to expand...

I don't know the science of it, but one of my classmates almost burned down the auto shop once. He had linseed soaked rags, bundled them up in a ball and threw it into a low under workbench cabinet. Well, the next day, there was smoke coming out of that same cabinet, we opened the door, and WHOOSH!, a big ole' fireball came out, and the whole cabinet was on fire! We had to hit it with the fire extinguisher, it went out, but from that time on, we all used the sealed red cans for rags, that I can tell you! Needless to say, he got an "F" for auto class.
 
As for your last question...if you don't want to soak cotton balls...just use Nevr Dull. You can drop the can in the water, yet it will still burn. It's cotton soaked in some petroleum-based product. Cleans up black rust nicely, as well as other stuff...after it dries, leaves some whitish coating. Wipe it off, and you still have enough product to prevent rust, so no more oiling necessary.
 
Got all mine a spa treatment over the last weeks.

Soaked in normal Linseed oil for many days.
Then let it dry/polymerize. (Stuff hardened on the but cap und looked ugly there. Should have wiped it)
Used finest steel wool to roughen the surface (and polish the but cap)

Applied pure tung oil and not "tung finish" fake.
Wiped it off lightly an hour later and let it sit for 12 hours.
Roughened it again and applied new tung oil.
Wiped it off an hour later and so on.
I think I did it 5 times and often let it dry longer than 12h.

Now the handles looks super shiny and smell good. Some shrinkage was reversed as well.

At times there were dull areas on a handle and it seemed it was caused by me not wiping the tung oil well enough after one hour and before waiting 12 hours. Too thick off a layer just dries up dull it seems. No biggie it just takes a bit more steel wool rubbing the next time and one more treatment with the oil.

Both linseed oil and tung oil polymerize but tung oil is said to create even a water resistant coating. That's why I apply this at the end to lock things in and out.


Fun fact.
My Himalayan Razor aka Sher Attitude was half an ounce heavier after the Spa treatment. Other woods soak up even more but I didn't measure them.
 
For those here who have soaked a handle, but the metal is still a bit proud, do you file away at the metal? Wrap it with some wrap?
 
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