To choil or not choil??? That is the Question... MSe LE NEW UPDATES

freehouse32

freehouse32

Joined
Sep 7, 2016
Messages
423
So... I am sending away a BG MSe to have a choil put in and if I like it I will have one put into my MSeLE as well. I really like choils but I see a lot of people do not care for them, and prefer baldes without them.

So to everyone who does not like choils, what is your reason and why?

Is there some advantage that I'm unaware of to which the extra 1/4, or 1/2 inch of blade does that out weighs the advanced ergonomics of the choil?

* UPDATEDS* I recently got back my MSe LE, I had a choil and a birds beak put in. I think it came out perfect and it really adds to an already wonderful knife!!! Here are some picks!!! Enjoy!!!

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Choils for me are only necessary on larger knives that you intend to do small tasks with. So any knife with a blade of 8-11 inches I like it. Once I get over 11 inch blade length I think it is kind of useless because that knife is just to big for small tasks. So for example, the Steel Hears, Battle Mistress, B9, B10, B11 and everything in that range will benefit from it. Between 5" and 8" blade length I can take it or leave it. Under 5" blade length I prefer not to have it.
 
I like a variety, but overall I'm a fan of choils over choiless.

Choiless really excels cutting cordage-- it is a HUGE PITA trying to cut netting with an elf choil or sharpening choil...you're constantly getting snagged :mad:

You can hold your index finger at the blade heel with a choiled knife which makes it servicable for cordage work, but choiless is the gold standard for fiberous, cordy stuff.

And having a proud talon hole like on the B10 LE helps out even more by keeping the cords from jumping back off the edge. :thumbup:

I always thought a forward guard like on the the lightning R9's + a choiless blade would be a great combo for a cordage / shroud cutter for that very reason of keeping the media off your handle.

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I like the utility of a full sized finger choil on a small blade for added control.

After all, detail work is what small blades excel at, so why not enhance the experience? YMMV

Probably gonna enlarge the choil on the ScrapMax in the pic for that very reason...as is the elf choil on it is too "middling" for my uses. Go whole HOG or GO HOME! :cool:
 
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Good to know about the cords! I definitely find choils more enjoyable for precision work!

I know to each their own... But choils just do it for me... I will have to post some pics once the MSe gets back and give some feed back.

Seems like its just a personal preference and not really a physical reason outside or ergonomics.
 
I actually think that choiless big knives are ugly. I cannot stand the ASHBM without choil and the B10 without choil. To me they just don't look right.
 
Depends on the blade. Wouldn't want a finger choil on my MSE or my SOB. A lot of my day to day cutting is on stuff like small rope or nylon strapping. I always use the rearmost part of the edge and the closer it is to my hand, the better. I have never found the need to choke up on knives that small. A finger choil would just be a spot that catches the rope and makes me say curse words. If there was a half inch of cutting surface missing at the rear of the blade I might see a need to choke up, but I'd rather not have to.
 
In general, I like finger choils. For me, they are a must on medium to large blades. Busse's elf choil and "small" sharpening choils are so large, you have all of the disadvantages of a finger choil without the benefits. Might as well enlarge them and let me get a finger in there.

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I will never understand this⬆️⬆️⬆️
 
jsnell said:
In general, I like finger choils. For me, they are a must on medium to large blades. Busse's elf choil and "small" sharpening choils are so large, you have all of the disadvantages of a finger choil without the benefits. Might as well enlarge them and let me get a finger in there.

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I will never understand this⬆️⬆️⬆️
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Agreed on the choil size. Needs smaller, bigger or gone altogether.
 
Actually the MSe in question has a very insignificant choil imo. It is nothing like the AD above.


Small worthless choils don't bother me. Yeah, I'd rather not have them at all, but small is no biggie.
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Cobalt said:
Actually the MSe in question has a very insignificant choil imo. It is nothing like the AD above.


Small worthless choils don't bother me. Yeah, I'd rather not have them at all, but small is no biggie.
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Agreed. The MSe choil isn't too bad, although I do think it could be a little smaller. And, for me at least, small sharpening choils are useful. I'm no sharpening wiz, so they do help me stay out of the ricasso, or develop a recurve over time.
 
My goal with the MSe choil is not to have any blade length removed, but instead to have the talon hole removed and the choil be flush with the handles creating a nice even feel and still maintaining both the original grip and blade length.
 
freehouse32 said:
My goal with the MSe choil is not to have any blade length removed, but instead to have the talon hole removed and the choil be flush with the handles creating a nice even feel and still maintaining both the original grip and blade length.
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I do think several of their designs would benefit from losing the talon hole. I know it's their trademark, but it seems to get in the way sometimes. Kind of like the spydiehole, although Spyderco has started to relent on that the last couple of years.
 
Just a follow up for clairity, I meant to say the choil should only impede handles just enough to be ground flush with one another but not ground to the point where it should effect the original grip.

I really like the talon hole and the looks of it. Its just hard to sqeeze everything in on the small blades.
 
Choking up on choils mean that when you bear down to force through a cut, the web of your hand is placed in a narrow hard spine… which basically causes you to not be able to put much pressure into the cut as it causes pain hence you stop what you're doing. That is one of the biggest reasons I don't like them, also they create an unneeded snag point.
 
Hmm...my hand stays over handle when choked up. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
 
I agree with Cobalt. A functional finger sized choil makes sense in a medium size knife that can serve fine or gross function depending on the grip. In a large knife they look good and don't hurt anything so I can take or leave it.

The combo that really confuses me is a small knife with an elf choil and talon hole. This combo takes up too large of a percentage of valuable blade territory in a small knife imo. It also prevents you from being able go get your thumb over the proximal cutting edge where leverage is the greatest. In a a small knife please make the blade the blade, the handle the handle, and make the blade go all the way to the handle without a bunch of useless space in-between.
 
Maggot Brain said:
Choking up on choils mean that when you bear down to force through a cut, the web of your hand is placed in a narrow hard spine… which basically causes you to not be able to put much pressure into the cut as it causes pain hence you stop what you're doing. That is one of the biggest reasons I don't like them, also they create an unneeded snag point.
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I have never had that problem. I have used choils all my life on knives and never had an issue because the major part of the force is on the spine when you cut not the choil. The choil is there for control and secure grip. If you use it like you are choking the chicken death grip, you did it all wrong:D
 
Cobalt said:
I have never had that problem. I have used choils all my life on knives and never had an issue because the major part of the force is on the spine when you cut not the choil. The choil is there for control and secure grip. If you use it like you are choking the chicken death grip, you did it all wrong:D
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I am not sure how this is not obvious, if you need more of a picture painted… imagine (or in real life) use of a knife without a handle… just a bare tang. This is what happens when you choke up into a choil, the handle stops leaving your hand exposed to bare metal. High force cutting like carving wood puts too much pressure on the web of your hand so you can't really torque down into the cut. You could however cut with the blade on 45 degree angle to keep the handle rooted in the handle, but that is not how I use knives.
 
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