To get a Sebenza or not?

[highestpoint]

Owned? No. I participated in the Sebenza passaround many years ago, and once again several years later.

I've owned a couple Kerslaw Leeks, a rainbow one which I used for years, and a Ti/ZDP-189 one that I never used. And a Cutters Knife and Tool D/A framelock auto, considered to be the Sebenza of switchblades.

In other passarounds I've used a variety of framelocks.

I've also owned and tried many various linerlocks over the years. Spyderco, Kershaw, ZT, Microtech,, etc. I can't remember them all.

It's not a quality thing. I just don't like the mechanics. I don't like that a frame or linerlock requires you to put your thumb in the path of the blade. I prefer the AXIS lock, compression lock, or even the basic backlock (as Spyderco does it).

A small Insigno with micarta inlays (or snakewood, if they did that) would be nearly the perfect knife for me, if it had an AXIS lock.

Okay that's understandable. If you've tried it and still don't like it I can understand. I get how you don't like that your finger has to be in the way of the blade and I do agree but I've used them so long I don't even think about it anymore.

You should try the Ti-Lock

 

[ti lock]

I have been handling CRKs since 1997 and never have I felt that my finger was in danger of being cut when I was depressing the frame lock of a sebenza and initiating the closing of the blade.... I can easlly open and close it with one hand... My personal large sebenza 21 since 1997 (BG 42 blade steel) feels like a brand new knife and has been opened and closed thousands of times. Unless you have handled a sebenza then don't jump to conclusions. What other folding knife can last many lifetimes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhCKjcS0TuQ

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Last many lifetimes? About half the folders made.

What do you do on your Sebenza when the lock bar that is sitting at 70-80% of the tang when open finally moves all the way over and you get blade play? And if CRK isn't around? It's happened before according to the forums so don't say it's impossible to happen. And that was in the fraction of one lifetime.

 

[SVTFreak]

I like them. Best knife around? Not for everything. Better than most yeah but not to be all end all (no such luck)


I've had more sebenzas than benchmades. And I've had more omega springs break on axis locks on BM's than lock bar faces wear out on sebenzas.

 

[Officer's Match]

Last many lifetimes? About half the folders made.

What do you do on your Sebenza when the lock bar that is sitting at 70-80% of the tang when open finally moves all the way over and you get blade play? And if CRK isn't around? It's happened before according to the forums so don't say it's impossible to happen. And that was in the fraction of one lifetime.

Very, very unlikely in anything remotely resembling actual normal usage. As Mr. Reeve has said, it is a knife, not a worry bead. If you endeavor to open and close it thousands of times per day, you may be able to induce premature wear. Just like if you sat and cycled the slide on a handgun thousands of times per day. In real world usage, it will outlast the vast majority of folders, and be just a spa trip from magically becoming new again.

 

[sutherland]

So I have $500 to spend and am thinking about a sebenza, but I keep looking at them and I'm not sure I see "it". I also have been looking at the benchmade monolock 765 and 761. I have benchmades already and like them, but will there be a noticeable difference between the CRK and benchmade?

What exactly is the "it" that you are searching for when you look at a Sebenza? It's just a knife, nothing more or less. Anything and everything else you may have read/heard/seen is simply subjective banter.

That being said, I'll "play" and provide my own subjective banter with the knives you have mentioned above, speaking specifically to Blade Steel, Pivot System, and Locking System.

761/765 vs. Sebenza

Blade Steel
- 761/765: M390
- Sebenza: S35VN

Edge Retention: M390 will have longer edge retention. S35VN will be faster to strop/sharpen (Note: I didn't say "easier". M390 just requires a bit more "time", not more "effort").
Corrosion Resistance: I would say they are about equal. Sure the compositions will tell otherwise, but in a real world scenario being a regular guy, you won't notice a difference.
Toughness: Same as above, pretty much equal. If one were to chip before the other, I would say Benchmade's M390.

If "Blade Steel" is the deciding factor, just ask yourself if you would rather:
- strop faster, cut some (Sebenza)
- strop longer, cut more than some (761/765)

Pivot System
- 761/765: Bearings/Adjustable Pivot
- Sebenza: Washers/Bushing Pivot

The notion of "smooth" between the systems is subjective, so we will throw that comparison out the window.

Deployment - Flicking: The 761/765 will have a "snappier"/"quicker" deployment due to the increased detent strength and the lack of resistance due to the Bearings. The Sebenza can fire out, however there will be some "drag".
Deployment - Sweeping: The Sebenza will be much easier to slowly sweep open as there is more resistance and a lighter detent.
Side to Side Play: Assuming both are "dialed-in" to spec, you shouldn't encounter any blade play, HOWEVER, the 761/765 has a lot more going on. Bearings are placed in a plastic/poly race and all it takes is one or more to "give" to introduce some play. The Sebenza's Bushing Pivot is just tightened all the way down. The only real way to introduce side to side play with a Sebenza is through User Error:
- over "smoothing" out the washers resulting in the bushing sitting proud of the washers
- pinched washer when reassembling the knife
- pivot not tightened down (this is true with the 761/765 as well)

If "Pivot System" is the deciding factor, just ask yourself if you would rather:
- have a knife that is dialed in now but could potentially degrade with time (761/765. NOTE: This is HIGHLY unlikely, if not impossible with normal use. This statement is splitting "false hairs" and is under my OWN assumption that the bearing races COULD damage through user ABUSE)
- have a knife that breaks in and gets smoother with time (Sebenza)

AGAIN, I will state that what I said regarding "bearings" is splitting "false hairs" and is under my OWN assumption that the bearing races COULD damage through user ABUSE. You see TONS of bearing knives handling hard tasks and functioning to spec. SO, if anything...that disproves my above scenario.

Locking System
- 761/765: Monolock (modified and overthought take on the Reeve Integral Lock)
- Sebenza: Reeve Integral Lock

I will skip a lot of the points here as my stance/opinion is clearly obvious. I feel the Sebenza's lockup and strength to be FAR superior. The lock bar is more robust (more contact on the lockface) and there is more pressure applied to the lockface. You can adjust the "amount" of lockup with 761/765, however the lockbar strength appears to remain consistent. In some instances, you can create some vertical play with the Monolock. Perhaps this is all User Error, meaning:
- we approach the Monolock as a "proactive" means to "dial in" our knife
- we SHOULD only adjust the Monolock as a "reactive" means to "dial out" potential lock issues that arise with time

If "Locking System" is the deciding factor, just ask yourself if you would rather:
- have a turn-key tried and true approach (Sebenza)
- have a user-adjustable interface to an existing tried and true approach (761/765)

 

[CARRERA50]

The Sebenza is unsurpassed at its price point for only one thing, as far as I can tell: granting you membership to the smug douchenozzle Sebenza fan club on the Internet.

It's a fine knife, but I've yet to once have anyone explain a single advantage it has in any concrete terms beyond that it is finished to higher tolerances than any other production knife.

Sebenza fans will admit the knife isn't the nicest looking knife, or the best cutting knife, or the strongest knife, of the most fun knife, but will assure you that it is still without a doubt the best knife. If you buy one and find it unimpressive, as I did, you'll find a new wave of unjustified snobbery washing up on your shores. I've been variously told a wide variety of versions of these put downs and humblebrags when discussing my impression of the Sebenza I purchased:

It takes a level of maturity and wisdom to truly understand the magic of the Sebenza
It may not be the best at anything, but when you get to know knives you'll understand that it is still the best knife
If you bought a Sebenza and didn't like it, it's your failing, not the knife's--something is wrong with you
Some people just can't appreciate the finer things

So yeah, it's unsurpassed . . . unsurpassed at giving you immediate access to the self-impressed Sebenza douchenozzle club. Every membership comes with a bonus dose of purchase justification manufactured to 0.0001" tolerances along with a bonus guide for how to explain how all other knives are inferior (e.g. tolerances--make sure to brag about a difference in tolerances so small that a human literally cannot perceive them in comparison, remember to include that CR invented pretty much everything, including the general use of sharp objects, also make sure to mention the manufacturing award-- but conveniently forget that someone else usually wins knife of the year and whatnot).

Bam. I actually didn't write that ^. It was a comment I just found funny in one of the reviews on the Sebenza, so I wanted to share that joy. All hail the Mighty Sebenza. Buy the Sebenza. Join us.

Got a warning for responding to this in what I thought was a similarly sarcastic vein; sorry if I offended anyone, as that was not my intent.

 

[evilgreg]

The Sebenza is unsurpassed at its price point for only one thing, as far as I can tell: granting you membership to the smug douchenozzle Sebenza fan club on the Internet.

It's a fine knife, but I've yet to once have anyone explain a single advantage it has in any concrete terms beyond that it is finished to higher tolerances than any other production knife.

Sebenza fans will admit the knife isn't the nicest looking knife, or the best cutting knife, or the strongest knife, of the most fun knife, but will assure you that it is still without a doubt the best knife. If you buy one and find it unimpressive, as I did, you'll find a new wave of unjustified snobbery washing up on your shores. I've been variously told a wide variety of versions of these put downs and humblebrags when discussing my impression of the Sebenza I purchased:

• It takes a level of maturity and wisdom to truly understand the magic of the Sebenza

• It may not be the best at anything, but when you get to know knives you'll understand that it is still the best knife

• If you bought a Sebenza and didn't like it, it's your failing, not the knife's--something is wrong with you

• Some people just can't appreciate the finer things

So yeah, it's unsurpassed . . . unsurpassed at giving you immediate access to the self-impressed Sebenza douchenozzle club. Every membership comes with a bonus dose of purchase justification manufactured to 0.0001" tolerances along with a bonus guide for how to explain how all other knives are inferior (e.g. tolerances--make sure to brag about a difference in tolerances so small that a human literally cannot perceive them in comparison, remember to include that CR invented pretty much everything, including the general use of sharp objects, also make sure to mention the manufacturing award-- but conveniently forget that someone else usually wins knife of the year and whatnot).

Bam. I actually didn't write that ^. It was a comment I just found funny in one of the reviews on the Sebenza, so I wanted to share that joy. All hail the Mighty Sebenza. Buy the Sebenza. Join us.

I know the original author of that comment, and he's a great guy with excellent taste. You could have quoted him with attribution, he doesn't mind (though he does refer to himself in the third person at times, which seems a bit odd).

 

[ti lock]

Last many lifetimes? About half the folders made.

What do you do on your Sebenza when the lock bar that is sitting at 70-80% of the tang when open finally moves all the way over and you get blade play? And if CRK isn't around? It's happened before according to the forums so don't say it's impossible to happen. And that was in the fraction of one lifetime.

My own personal large sebenza 21 which has been around since about 1997 and has been opened and closed many times from normal use is not showing any wear on the lock bar and the blade still locks up like a bank vault, there is absolutely no play in the blade.... The knife has a unique audible click when the blade locks into place which is kind of neat. I suppose if someone forces the lock bar over beyond its nature landing place for some reason then there could be premature wear on the lock bar. If a knife serves you well for many many years its worth the investment.... the greatest threat to a knife like this is losing it... The simplicity of this knife is very much a part of its beauty.

The large plain seb 21 sells for $410... What are its competing knives selling for?

 

[highestpoint]

I know the original author of that comment, and he's a great guy with excellent taste. You could have quoted him with attribution, he doesn't mind (though he does refer to himself in the third person at times, which seems a bit odd).

I think it's funny that he refers to Sebenza fans to be douchenozzles but oh the irony. I used to be bias towards some companies until I tried them and found what it was I liked in them. Gives myself a different perspective on the brand. There is several other companies (being mentioned in another thread) that I couldn't say everything positive of but I will still buy some of their products. I used to not like sebenzas because they were plain and just didn't appeal to me but the more and more I bought into other knives I eventually saw that simplicity and that's what has drawn me towards them even more. Not everyones cup of tea though.

My own personal large sebenza 21 which has been around since about 1997 and has been opened and closed many times from normal use is not showing any wear on the lock bar.... The knife has a unique audible click when the blade locks into place which is kind of neat. I suppose if someone forces the lock bar over beyond its nature landing place for some reason then there could be premature wear on the lock bar. If a knife serves you well for many many years its worth the investment.... the greatest threat to a knife like this is losing it... The simplicity of this knife is very much a part of its beauty.

The large plain seb 21 sells for $445... What are its competing knives selling for?

I thought the large plain 21 sold for 410 and the 25 was for 445?

 

[ti lock]

I think it's funny that he refers to Sebenza fans to be douchenozzles but oh the irony. I used to be bias towards some companies until I tried them and found what it was I liked in them. Gives myself a different perspective on the brand. There is several other companies (being mentioned in another thread) that I couldn't say everything positive of but I will still buy some of their products. I used to not like sebenzas because they were plain and just didn't appeal to me but the more and more I bought into other knives I eventually saw that simplicity and that's what has drawn me towards them even more. Not everyones cup of tea though.



I thought the large plain 21 sold for 410 and the 25 was for 445?

correct the large seb 21 does sell for $410... I just noticed my error... the large inkosi sells for $445

 

[highestpoint]

correct the large seb 21 does sell for $410... I just noticed my error... the large inkosi sells for $445

I was just curious because I was going to ask who you were shopping through because I have seen some brand new large inlay 21's that sell for 510 vs the 485 from other places. Can't recall where though.

 

[ti lock]

I was just curious because I was going to ask who you were shopping through because I have seen some brand new large inlay 21's that sell for 510 vs the 485 from other places. Can't recall where though.

according to my most current dealer list large seb 21 with inlays $485 with premium wood (snakewood, box elder) goes up to $510+

 

[wensynch]

I used to not like sebenzas because they were plain and just didn't appeal to me but the more and more I bought into other knives I eventually saw that simplicity and that's what has drawn me towards them even more.

I think this answers the question the best. At least to me.

"The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity." ~ Bruce Lee

No, Sebenza is not the best, but arguably the best production folder that came close to custom at a time what was rare before the days of CNC music factory. Yeah, it's probably worth top production dollar at 4 bills.

Every time I read that comment, it cracks me up. Yeah, surely it would hit home to some but there is truth in the witty repartee. Good reason for attribution, I think so too. Guy is the funny, I can see.

 

[sloth357]

Don't get the sebenza unless you want one.

Benchmade will never even be close to sebenza, we'll at least not yet.
I've handled plenty of them, will never buy a Benchmade. They feel cheap for the money.

A few Benchmade models are top notch...

I'd skip the sebbie. BORING. Nice quality, but not THE BEST. I prefer a Hinderer or even Strider over the sebbie.

I still own both a Hinderer and a Strider, but sold the sebbie... And I own customs that knock the sebbie out of the park... more hype IMO than anything.. unless you like computer generated graphics etched on your frames..........................................


I'd even say look at a Grayman Dua, not expensive, not custom, but those are very nice quality for the money...

GL!

 

[wensynch]

You know what knife feels like a Sebenza?

A Boker Urban Trapper, but then again it pretty is same design. It also makes the same Zippo tink noise when flicked open. A wonderful knife as well.

 

[ti lock]

I think this answers the question the best. At least to me.

"The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity." ~ Bruce Lee

No, Sebenza is not the best, but arguably the best production folder that came close to custom at a time what was rare before the days of CNC music factory. Yeah, it's probably worth top production dollar at 4 bills.

Every time I read that comment, it cracks me up. Yeah, surely it would hit home to some but there is truth in the witty repartee. Good reason for attribution, I think so too. Guy is the funny, I can see.

just curious... so what do you see as the "best" folder ?

I have never been inside Chris Reeve's shop but I am sure there are some very high priced machines in there.... and certainly there are some good minds and craftsmen at work there too... so IMHO CRKs are not overpriced.

 

[wensynch]

I dunno.

I just think of knives as a whole. Evolution. In that sense to me, CRK value will always be held high, I think. Best.. at one time. Best is relative. I imagine that too though, taking nit picking and a lot of care at the CRK to have the reputation it does. Legendary tolerances that stories are built on.

Kind of like our parents. Our we better then them? Our kids? The result of?

Yeah, I'm like that guy who made the Sebenza comment.

 

[CPP]

I had the same question a few years ago and when I stopped asking the question and answered it I bought a small 21 Insingo with Micarta inlays. When I first saw the Sebenza years ago, my first question was what is so special about it and for that price? I bought several, less expensive knives over the years and once I appreciated those for what they were the value of the Sebenza became apart.

 

[wtlj]

I'd skip the sebbie. BORING. Nice quality, but not THE BEST. I prefer a Hinderer or even Strider over the sebbie.

Striders are notorious for lock rock & lock stick, not to mention your supporting a liar & jerk company owner. Hinderer does have good fit and finish if you can get over the fact that it's a flipper that doesn't actually flip [emoji849]. Ive had 4 striders and 3 Hinderers (gen 2,3,4). NO THANKS

I'll stick with my "BORING" yet exceptionally functional sebenza when given the choice.