Tom Krein Collaboration (suggestion)

C

Cliff Stamp

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Tom Krein has been modifying the grinds on knives for some time now (see the Toolshed for pictures/reviews) with Spyderco and other knives. I think it would be of direct benefit to do an actual collaboration with him on a few knives. There are three which come to mind immediately :

1) Small folder, 2-3 inch blade, high hollow grind, 0.005"/8-10 degree edge. This is a light weight pure cutting tool which zips through papers, rope and cardboard and works well as a small paring knife in the kitchen when necessary.

2) Small fixed blade 2.5-3.5 inch blade, flat grind, 0.010-0.015"/10-12 degree edge. THis is mainly for wood working, carving and such not batoning.

3) Larger fixed blade, 7-12" (ok, the larger range isn't practical for most but I would like it). Set the edge at 0.030/12-14. This is to replace a small axe/machete and pairs with the second blade.

For steels, the ideal ones for these knives would be 13C26, 12C27, 12C27M in the same order, run them at 62/63, 60/61, 58/59 HRC respectively. However if they all had to be done of the same steel then it would be not that big of an issue.

Ref :

http://www.kreinknives.net/kk_products.htm

-Cliff
 
It's the first time I see that someone takes the edge thickness into acount when specifying a knife.
Good you do, it's overlooked to often.
I think that what you discribe sounds good, though the small folder might be a bit extreme.
This would be the closest thing to a pocket razer of all time.
Now I like that, but I'm afraid that no company will dare to sell it to the general public, not even Spyderco.
There are just to many that don't know how to use a cutting tool and come back crying the knife is no good after they messed it up.

But thank you for beating this drum, I hear to much glory for the sharpened prybars all the time while I like my knives to cut.

Best knife I own in this respect is a 3" folder from Andre Thorburn.
0,012" high hollow grind in 12C27.
Best factory knife I have is a SS Dragonfly, 0,016".
 
Piet.S said:
I think that what you discribe sounds good, though the small folder might be a bit extreme.
Click to expand...

David Boye's folders are in this range edge thickness wise, the production ones. He is clear about their usage though and has been for a long time. Some of the current Spyderco's are just barely above it. Yes it is pretty extreme and yes this would be a clear promotion AWAY from tactical. Do you have a shot of the Thorbun knife? Excellent steel for tht grind.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Do you have a shot of the Thorburn knife?
-Cliff
Click to expand...

My pleasure.

IMG_3278athorburn1.jpg


IMG_3279athorburnclose.jpg


IMG_3280athorburnlock.jpg
 
As a owner and user of several Krein ground Spydercos I am all for this. The small folder Cliff specified is very similar to the Byrd Meadowlark and Caly Jr. ZDP, Jess Horn ZDP, and Fallkniven U2 I have in my possession (some of those are Cliff's, and I also have my Krein ground Native which has a .008" edge in deference to it's steel and 3.25" blade), as they all have .005" edges and very acute grinds (flat to the stone). They cut unbelievably well, and have tremendous edge retention. They also sharpen up pretty much instantly due to the tiny amount of steel you are working when you hone them. As long as you don't do anything stupid with them like heavy twisting cuts they work great and don't take damage, and for the applications Cliff listed they definately don't take damage. I can't tell you how much I would like to see this on a factory knife, as it would save me the expense of constantly sending off knives to Krein to be reground to this exact geometry. Once you cut with a knife of this geometry you will see why I have been hyping them. The sharpness, cutting ability, and edge retention make these knives my favorite cutting tools. Having 13C26 steel at high hardness for a knife of this geometry would be a dream come true.

The small fixed blade that Cliff listed is really similar to the grind I plan to have Krein do to my R2. That knife is 3.5" with an edge thickness of .021" from the factory (and it cuts very good, but my sense of cutting ability is permanantly warped from the Krein ground knives I use), but I want Krein to take it down to .010", keeping the full flat grind. To see a factory fixed blade at those specs would be a treat.

As I have very little experience with large fixed blades I'll hold my comments, though it sounds like it would be a great hard use outdoors knife that I would have to add to my collection.

Another great thing is the steels listed would be great for the applications as well as being cheaper in materials and finishing costs than most of the high carbide "super steels". Hopefully the lower costs of the steel and finishing would make the project more viable business wise. I know I would buy at least one of each, and probably a few of the smaller knives.

Mike
 
I have brought up a Krein-Spyderco colab a few times.
I would love to see it and Tom told me once he would be up for it.
 
gunmike1 said:
Another great thing is the steels listed would be great for the applications as well as being cheaper in materials and finishing costs than most of the high carbide "super steels".
Click to expand...

Yeah and they are also better for the knives, easier to harden and grind, go figure.

spyken said:
I like this thread.....hate prybars, love slicers.
Click to expand...

Krein defines that.

Piet.S said:
My pleasure.
Click to expand...

Thanks, nice looking knife.

-Cliff
 
I would love to see a full flat ground Centofante 4. IMHO the Cent 4 is one of the best knives for actual use out there. Make it in full flat grind and it only gets better.
 
doesn't tom have a deal with CRKT??? can he design things for spyderco too? i dunno how this aspect of the industry is but i bet sal would be eager to have collabs with great custom makers like krein if it weren't taboo or the maker is under contract with another knife company.
 
I'd be very interested in this. It's tiring having to reprofile literally every knife I purchase just to get the cutting up to an "acceptable" level. Spyderco does better than most in this respect with their thin grins, but I still find myself taking my Cara Cara's and Endura's flat to the stone. No company I've purchase production knives from has yet shown me edge bevels on the majority of their knives that I'm satisfied with, so seeing that for the first time would get my attention.

I'd be happy just to see some of the current knives in the line-up given more of a pure cutting style grind. Like a G10 Cara Cara with skeletonized liners, full flat grind, thinner blade stock and more acute edge bevel.
 
I'd love to see a Krein-Syderco collab... I'd go for one at just about ANY price up to $200. A TK-1, 3, and 8 are all on my to buy list- a folder would complement those well.
 
madfast said:
doesn't tom have a deal with CRKT??? can he design things for spyderco too? i dunno how this aspect of the industry is but i bet sal would be eager to have collabs with great custom makers like krein if it weren't taboo or the maker is under contract with another knife company.
Click to expand...
you should see how many companies Elishewitz has collabs with, there really isn't any kind of restriction, AFAIK. Closest I could think of is when someone like BM hires the makers directly.
 
Sounds good to me. I like thin edges. Knives are for cutting and thin ones just do it better. Like the steels too, the smaller the carbides and the more evenly dispersed, the better!

Pocket razors, Yes Please!

JD
 
Oh yes, I like Tom's knives and I'd love to see a Spyderco / Krein collaboration. Especially after he improved the grind of a lot of Spydies lately... ;)
 
Just how fragile are these Krein regrinds of Spydercos? If I had him do a regrind of a new ZDP Endura, could I whittle a tentpeg with it?

Mr. Stamp, could you elaborate on why you'd prefer the steels you have mentioned? Are they tougher when ground thin? More ductile, perhaps?
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Tom Krein has been modifying the grinds on knives for some time now (see the Toolshed for pictures/reviews) with Spyderco and other knives. I think it would be of direct benefit to do an actual collaboration with him on a few knives. There are three which come to mind immediately :

1) Small folder, 2-3 inch blade, high hollow grind, 0.005"/8-10 degree edge. This is a light weight pure cutting tool which zips through papers, rope and cardboard and works well as a small paring knife in the kitchen when necessary.

2) Small fixed blade 2.5-3.5 inch blade, flat grind, 0.010-0.015"/10-12 degree edge. THis is mainly for wood working, carving and such not batoning.

3) Larger fixed blade, 7-12" (ok, the larger range isn't practical for most but I would like it). Set the edge at 0.030/12-14. This is to replace a small axe/machete and pairs with the second blade.
Click to expand...

Cliff

This is a very interesting thread that you started. When you refer to edge thickness, where exactly you apply the calliper to obtain the correct measurement? Also, in order to obtain the correct angle measurement do you use a vernier?

For steels, the ideal ones for these knives would be 13C26, 12C27, 12C27M in the same order, run them at 62/63, 60/61, 58/59 HRC respectively. However if they all had to be done of the same steel then it would be not that big of an issue.
Click to expand...

Why do you recommend these steels and each one of them at the respectively specified hardness level?
 
TIZWIN said:
Just how fragile are these Krein regrinds of Spydercos? If I had him do a regrind of a new ZDP Endura, could I whittle a tentpeg with it?
Click to expand...

I do, it depends on the technique. Do you want to try one and see what it takes to break it?

Are they tougher when ground thin? More ductile, perhaps?
Click to expand...

Exactly right. The are optomized for such geometry.

Andros said:
... where exactly you apply the calliper to obtain the correct measurement? Also, in order to obtain the correct angle measurement do you use a vernier?
Click to expand...

Top of the bevel, yes, checked with a laser a few years back.


Why do you recommend these steels and each one of them at the respectively specified hardness level?
Click to expand...

Hardness is near maximum to give optimal strength/durability combination. They are ideally suited for those knives, 12C27M being very corrosion resistant and tough while 13C26 is harder, more wear resistant and will hold a finer edge for longer in lighter work.

-Cliff
 
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