Tops Operator 7 integrity

[StrangeDaze]

I would like to start by saying that i do not take most of what is said on youtube very seriously and do not like destruction videos.
Also, i have an Operator 7 and have no plans of getting rid of it. I have not done any abusive use or extreme testing with it.

I noticed that since a certain destruction video, other videos have emerged talking about how potentially weak the design of the tops operator 7 is. One video i saw even mentioned that it could end up fracturing under moderate use and you wouldn’t notice until it inevitably broke under even light use. The 3 main claims seem to be:

1 The fuller is milled square which creates a big stress riser

2 the fuller takes the steel stock too thin

3 the differential heat treatment negatively impacts the performance by having the transitional zone right at the fuller

I don’t believe these claims to be true.
ETA: i do think that square fuller creates a stress riser, just not as detrimental than is being claimed.

I feel like this just shows how easy it is for people to jump on a bandwagon badmouthing a product with only one publicized failure which was, to me, outside of the design specifications.

I do think it is possible that the fuller might make the knife ever so slightly weaker, but not to the point where it is useless like some people are claiming. I do think that whatever it would take to break the knife, it would have broken without the fuller.

I don’t like that this could scare someone who wants to own one away from a purchase just because of an, in my opinion, unrealistic idea.

I am always open to being wrong, so i wanted to know, has anyone been able to break an Operater 7 with normal to moderate use?

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I have a hard time believing that that thick-boi would fail under normal use unless it DIDN'T have a heat treatment. I find the Operator 7 to be a tad large and heavy for my needs, but I seriously doubt that one would be likely to break one doing the camp/survival chores it's designed to handle.

Durable goods are strange things. People purchase them and expect them to pass every unreasonable test and last forever lest they be deemed junk. Everyone and their brother thinks a knife needs to pass some sort of survival test where it can be beaten through logs, stone, and steel and still shave hair and not suffer any damage to the tang.

 

[coolbreezy37]

I have a hard time believing that that thick-boi would fail under normal use unless it DIDN'T have a heat treatment. I find the Operator 7 to be a tad large and heavy for my needs, but I seriously doubt that one would be likely to break one doing the camp/survival chores it's designed to handle.

Durable goods are strange things. People purchase them and expect them to pass every unreasonable test and last forever lest they be deemed junk. Everyone and their brother thinks a knife needs to pass some sort of survival test where it can be beaten through logs, stone, and steel and still shave hair and not suffer any damage to the tang.

People do some nonsense things to knives with a reputation for durability, and then cry that they’re weak after breaking when repeatedly smacking them against a solid concrete block or a steel beam.

 

[BlindMouse2of3]

I will start by saying I don't have this knife but my take on the situation in whole is below.

I may be a little off with my logic but I bought a knife very recently after watching a destruction video. It passed the "yeah I'm not doing that with any of my knives part." And failed at the "why the hell would anyone do that" part. Cool I'll take it. Actually I've bought a few knives then seen some articles or threads where someone saw the knife has "failed" in a video. For a minute I have the "oh great why did I buy that" feeling, then I go watch the video and end up feeling great about my purchase. I actually bought a CS 4max scout since Joex didn't break it and the river store had em for $50 at the time. To be honest I hate how much I like it.

If you plan on using your operator 7 as intended without blatantly abusing it and it breaks please show pictures. That's something I'd love to see.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I will start by saying I don't have this knife but my take on the situation in whole is below.

I may be a little off with my logic but I bought a knife very recently after watching a destruction video. It passed the "yeah I'm not doing that with any of my knives part." And failed at the "why the hell would anyone do that" part. Cool I'll take it. Actually I've bought a few knives then seen some articles or threads where someone saw the knife has "failed" in a video. For a minute I have the "oh great why did I buy that" feeling, then I go watch the video and end up feeling great about my purchase. I actually bought a CS 4max scout since Joex didn't break it and the river store had em for $50 at the time. To be honest I hate how much I like it.

If you plan on using your operator 7 as intended without blatantly abusing it and it breaks please show pictures. That's something I'd love to see.

The only takeaway from Joe's videos that I give weight to is when you he actually goes, "wow..." when something doesn't fail. I've mentioned it several times, but I was pretty floored at how well the thin stock AUS8 Marauder did stabbing through sheet steel. For me, tip integrity of a blade designed around self defense/fighting means more than if a guy can hammer it into a stump and snap thin, cheap stock by applying 180lbs of weight to it. It doesn't surprise me that it snapped or broke getting whacked into immovable objects, but that's not why I purchased a fully serrated wide-bellied sub-hilt fighter.

 

[BlindMouse2of3]

Yup I just bought a counterpoint xl here on the forum say how much bend it got in the stump before breaking after all the hood stabbing. I was sold.

People in general want as many clicks as possible and more clicks come from I broke it than it was great.

 

[TC]

I would like to start by saying that i do not take most of what is said on youtube very seriously and do not like destruction videos.
Also, i have an Operator 7 and have no plans of getting rid of it. I have not done any abusive use or extreme testing with it.

I noticed that since a certain destruction video, other videos have emerged talking about how potentially weak the design of the tops operator 7 is. One video i saw even mentioned that it could end up fracturing under moderate use and you wouldn’t notice until it inevitably broke under even light use. The 3 main claims seem to be:

1 The fuller is milled square which creates a big stress riser

2 the fuller takes the steel stock too thin

3 the differential heat treatment negatively impacts the performance by having the transitional zone right at the fuller

I don’t believe these claims to be true.

I feel like this just shows how easy it is for people to jump on a bandwagon badmouthing a product with only one publicized failure which was, to me, outside of the design specifications.

I do think it is possible that the fuller might make the knife ever so slightly weaker, but not to the point where it is useless like some people are claiming. I do think that whatever it would take to break the knife, it would have broken without the fuller.

I don’t like that this could scare someone who wants to own one away from a purchase just because of an, in my opinion, unrealistic idea.

I am always open to being wrong, so i wanted to know, has anyone been able to break an Operater 7 with normal to moderate use?

Well, to address only one of your points, yes, squared-off millings are stress risers and generally bad practice. I don't understand how any capable designer would incorporate such in a blade, and that especially includes the "hidden" parts of the tang under the handle where it may be skeletonized for balance and weight reduction.

I seriously don't get how some makers save at best a few minutes of work to seriously compromise their product. There is a case in point which I believe was a BenchMade Bushcrafter failure, but I'm not entirely sure that was it - some YouTube video...

 

[StrangeDaze]

Well, to address only one of your points, yes, squared-off millings are stress risers and generally bad practice. I don't understand how any capable designer would incorporate such in a blade, and that especially includes the "hidden" parts of the tang under the handle where it may be skeletonized for balance and weight reduction.

I seriously don't get how some makers save at best a few minutes of work to seriously compromise their product. There is a case in point which I believe was a BenchMade Bushcrafter failure, but I'm not entirely sure that was it - some YouTube video...

I understand it is a stress riser, but so is a squared spine. I think to say it will absolutely fail due to what i perceive as not a big deal in the overall design of the knife is dramatic.

I have also seen more than one video of a benchmade bushcrafter not crumbling under its own weight.

 

[shane45-1911]

I understand it is a stress riser, but so is a squared spine.

No. A 90 degree outside angle is not the same as a 90 degree inside angle.

 

[StrangeDaze]

No. A 90 degree outside angle is not the same as a 90 degree inside angle.

Not the same but still a stress riser

 

[TC]

No. A 90 degree outside angle is not the same as a 90 degree inside angle.

Thank you for saving me an elaborate reply.

 

[shane45-1911]

Not the same but still a stress riser

No, it is not.

 

[StrangeDaze]

No, it is not.

I Disagree.

 

[shane45-1911]

I Disagree.

That is your perogative. You are wrong, however.

 

[StrangeDaze]

That is your perogative. You are wrong, however.

I may be, but i dont think so.

Some makers round their spines to reduce stress risers (and add comfort for your thumb)

 

[TC]

Not the same but still a stress riser

Inside squares vs. outside squares = big difference due to geometry.

 

[shane45-1911]

I may be, but i dont think so.

Some makers round their spines to reduce stress risers (and add comfort for your thumb)

Well, I know so. Rounded spines are for aesthetics and comfort only.

A 90 spine will not exhibit any stress points focused on one specific area - it would spread any forces along the whole length of the spine if subjected to lateral stress.

A 90 degree INSIDE corner focuses any lateral stress directly on the corner (apex) of the angle.

 

[StrangeDaze]

Well, I know so. Rounded spines are for aesthetics and comfort only.

A 90 spine will not exhibit any stress points focused on one specific area - it would spread any forces along the whole length of the spine if subjected to lateral stress.

A 90 degree INSIDE corner focuses any lateral stress directly on the corner (apex) of the angle.

Thanks for your posts. I still disagree (and still may be wrong), but i appreciate it the same. I may even change my mind one day!

 

[shane45-1911]

Thanks for your posts. I still disagree (and still may be wrong), but i appreciate it the same. I may even change my mind one day!

The proof is out there.

Only lawyers and fools argue about facts.

 

[ShaiHulud]

Anything can be destroyed if --- abused properly (?)
Pry bars and crow bars can bend, crack or even break, wrecking balls chip and crack
So if your goal is to abuse the knife unreasonably and hulk smash it, it will break, whether it's an operator 7, Becker, bowling ball or other.
I have a hard time believing that if these knives were to be issued to rangers or spec ops units that they would chew them up and destroy them
As always, use the right tool for the job