Tops Operator 7 integrity

Status
Not open for further replies.
shane45-1911 said:
The proof is out there.

Only lawyers and fools argue about facts. :)
Click to expand...
I’m definitely not a lawyer so that only leaves one option lol!

If you have the time, could you post the proof/facts? Just saying something is a fact isn’t enough for me.
I’m only finding posts that say that 90 degree spines are a stress riser.

I’m sure an inner 90 degree is more of a stress riser but by how much? I’d like to know! My guess is not much but its just a guess. Also its not taking into account the package as a whole.

Thats where i think there is an issue, in saying that it will crumble carving wood because of this.
 
StrangeDaze said:
I’m definitely not a lawyer so that only leaves one option lol!

If you have the time, could you post the proof/facts? Just saying something is a fact isn’t enough for me.
Click to expand...

LOL, not implying you are a fool, either.

A Google search for "stress risers" is probably a good place to start. Otherwise, don't make me dig out my engineering text books..... :)
 
shane45-1911 said:
Well, I know so. Rounded spines are for aesthetics and comfort only.

A 90 spine will not exhibit any stress points focused on one specific area - it would spread any forces along the whole length of the spine if subjected to lateral stress.

A 90 degree INSIDE corner focuses any lateral stress directly on the corner (apex) of the angle.
Click to expand...
I much prefer a 90deg spine, has lots of uses to me from rod striking, to doing rough cuts to things not requiring a super sharp edge if keeping the edge is essential, been hearing this thing about it being stress point, but never any reason why.
 
StrangeDaze said:
I’m sure an inner 90 degree is more of a stress riser but by how much? I’d like to know! My guess is not much but its just a guess. Also its not taking into account the package as a whole.
Click to expand...

It's not a case of "more or less". There is NO stress riser on an outside corner. Therefore, the answer to "how much more " is either ZERO or A LOT, depending on whether you are talking about an outside corner vs. an inside one.
 
Last edited:
Well, I just watched the JoeX destruction video of the TOPS Operator 7, and it sure held up to a lot of abuse before he broke it. I tried counting how many times he chopped a cement block with it before the blade finally broke, but I lost count, it took several. I'd be surprised if anyone were actually able to break one, even during hard use (within limits of course).

I used to be a harsh critic of JoeX, then I discovered that he had done a "destruction" video of my favorite knife, the Cold Steel Ti-lite 6, and out of curiosity I decided to watch.

Ever since I was a child I dreamed of owning a heavy-duty folding stiletto. The construction of the more traditional ones don't inspire much confidence, they aren't exactly robust. The Lynn Thompson/Cold Steel Ti-Lite 6 torture video impressed me and convinced me to buy my first Ti-Lites. But always in the back of my mind was the thought that LT was trying to sell knives, and that he might not show the failures.

But JoeX is a different animal altogether. He is intentionally trying to destroy knives. I've seen him destroy other Cold Steel knives and then (unfairly) declare them to be "garbage" or "crap" (a main source of my criticism). So when I saw that he was going to "torture test" a Ti-Lite 6 I knew that he wouldn't pull any punches, because he was trying to destroy it.

I ended up really enjoying that video, so much so that I recommend it over the LT/CS video (for the reasons I've just described). I liked seeing just how strong my favorite knife is and how much abuse it could take before failing (a lifelong dream come true), even though I have no intentions of putting one to that level of stress.

I don't call myself a fan of JoeX, and I still have some criticism of him, but I have come to see some value in what he does.
 
Last edited:
shane45-1911 said:
It's not a case of "more". There is NO stress riser on an outside corner. Therefore, the answer to "how much more " is zero, on an inside corner vs. an outside one.
Click to expand...
Interesting, thank you! I am not an engineer. I will keep searching for the why and maybe it will change my mind.

Do you think the inside corner is a death stroke like is being implied? My thinking is, yes it is a stress riser, but taking into account the rest of the knife, is it a substantial weak point?
 
StrangeDaze said:
Do you think the inside corner is a death stroke like is being implied? My thinking is, yes it is a stress riser, but taking into account the rest of the knife, is it a substantial weak point?
Click to expand...

In the world of mechanical engineering, any sharp INSIDE corner is to be avoided where there is any possibility of lateral stresses.

This would hold true to knife design as well. The quality makers will radius any inside sharp corners of a skeletonized handle for example, to reduce or eliminate any potential source of focused stress.

All other things being equal, a knife with sharp INSIDE corners will be weaker than one without sharp inside corners. In reality, if you are not abusing a knife and using it as intended, it really shouldn't make a whole lot of difference. It's a knife, not an offshore oil platform or space shuttle. :)
 
killgar said:
Well, I just watched the JoeX destruction video of the TOPS Operator 7, and it sure held up to a lot of abuse before he broke it. I tried counting how many times he chopped a cement block with it before the blade finally broke, but I lost count, it took several. I'd be surprised if anyone were actually able to break one, even during hard use (within limits of course).

I used to be a harsh critic of JoeX, then I was feeling a little masochistic one day and decided to watch his destruction video of my all-time favorite knife- the Cold Steel Ti-Lite 6.

Ever since I was a child I dreamed of owning a heavy-duty folding stiletto. The construction of the more traditional ones don't inspire much confidence, they aren't exactly robust. The Lynn Thompson/Cold Steel Ti-Lite 6 torture video impressed me and convinced me to buy my first Ti-Lites. But always in the back of my mind was the thought that LT was trying to sell knives, and that he might not show the failures.

But JoeX is a different animal altogether. He is intentionally trying to destroy knives. I've seen him destroy other Cold Steel knives and then (unfairly) declare them to be "garbage" or "crap" (a main source of my criticism). So when I saw that he was going to "torture test" a Ti-Lite 6 I knew that he wouldn't pull any punches, because he was trying to destroy it.

I ended up really enjoying that video, so much so that I recommend it over the LT/CS video (for the reasons I've just described). I liked seeing just how strong my favorite knife is and how much abuse it could take before failing (a lifelong dream come true), even though I have no intentions of putting one to that level of stress.

I don't call myself a fan of JoeX, and I still have some criticism of him, but I have come to see some value in what he does.
Click to expand...
Someone once responded to me in a YouTube video of joex saying "he isn't breaking the knives to break them, he's using unreasonable and destructive abuse methods to imply how strong the knife really is"
Maybe... maybe..
 
shane45-1911 said:
In the world of mechanical engineering, any sharp INSIDE corner is to be avoided where there is any possibility of lateral stresses.

This would hold true to knife design as well. The quality makers will radius any inside sharp corners of a skeletonized handle for example, to reduce or eliminate any potential source of focused stress.

All other things being equal, a knife with sharp INSIDE corners will be weaker than one without sharp inside corners. In reality, if you are not abusing a knife and using it as intended, it really shouldn't make a whole lot of difference. It's a knife, not an offshore oil platform or space shuttle. :)
Click to expand...
I think we are saying the same thing in this regard!
Is it ideal, no.
Will it for sure break under normal-moderate use because of this? Not imo.
 
StrangeDaze said:
I would like to start by saying that i do not take most of what is said on youtube very seriously and do not like destruction videos.
Also, i have an Operator 7 and have no plans of getting rid of it. I have not done any abusive use or extreme testing with it.

I noticed that since a certain destruction video, other videos have emerged talking about how potentially weak the design of the tops operator 7 is. One video i saw even mentioned that it could end up fracturing under moderate use and you wouldn’t notice until it inevitably broke under even light use. The 3 main claims seem to be:

1 The fuller is milled square which creates a big stress riser

2 the fuller takes the steel stock too thin

3 the differential heat treatment negatively impacts the performance by having the transitional zone right at the fuller

I don’t believe these claims to be true.

I feel like this just shows how easy it is for people to jump on a bandwagon badmouthing a product with only one publicized failure which was, to me, outside of the design specifications.

I do think it is possible that the fuller might make the knife ever so slightly weaker, but not to the point where it is useless like some people are claiming. I do think that whatever it would take to break the knife, it would have broken without the fuller.

I don’t like that this could scare someone who wants to own one away from a purchase just because of an, in my opinion, unrealistic idea.

I am always open to being wrong, so i wanted to know, has anyone been able to break an Operater 7 with normal to moderate use?
Click to expand...
The first two claims are true, no doubt. Any engineer can explain you why.
 
StrangeDaze said:
I’m sorry, i see where there is some confusion in my initial post.
I don’t think the square milled fuller is correct, i just dont think its a big enough stress riser to make the blade fail outright.
Click to expand...
If you use it like a regular knife, there’s not a big deal. Now, if you use it for chopping hard wood or for heavy battoning, (it’s advertised by the maker as being “bombproof”, if I recall correctly) it may create a crack that will lead to blade snap.
 
StrangeDaze said:
I may have read this wrong, but it seems this article says any reduction in steel (such as a fuller, even with a round milling), holes in blades (and tangs) and even choils are stress risers.
Click to expand...

I honestly think you are trying to overthink this in an attempt to confirm what makes knife blades weak.

In simplest terms, ANY piece of steel (including knife blades) that has holes, relief cuts, sharp inside corners, bends, etc. will be inherently weaker than the same identical piece of steel that has none of those things.

Again, it is a knife. Used properly and without abuse, it is quite unlikely you will ever put enough stress onto a quality, properly heat treated blade to cause catastrophic failure - even with fullers, holes, etc.
 
StrangeDaze said:
I may have read this wrong, but it seems this article says any reduction in steel (such as a fuller, even with a round milling), holes in blades (and tangs) and even choils are stress risers.
Click to expand...
That’s why I want all my knives without fullers, without skeletonized tangs, small holes (no more than three) in the tang, for G-10 handles, everything radiused, zero sharp corners, saber grind and a tough steel. Almost 0% chances of failure.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top