torx vs hex head screws

T

tank sniper

Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
130
I wish CRK would start using torx head screws instead of allen head screws on their folders.. I have a lot of experience with both and the torx head is, in my opinion, much less likely to strip out as compared to the allen head.
 
I have had the exact opposite experiences in the past? Either way, doesn't make too much of a difference to me I guess
 
One of the main reasons i like CRK is because they do NOT use torx. 99.8% of all knives these days that claim to be "tough" and "overbuilt" use crappy little soft T6 garbage screws, even customs for crying out loud, it's a joke. I have never even come close to seeing or feeling like one of the CRK screws were getting sloppy, they are as tight to fit into as day 1. Torx are not done right in my opinion, they are too shallow and the teeth slots too small. Allen heads all day every day for me.
 
Mick, apparently you have had little or no experience with torx head screws...

Probably T-15 would be about right for the sebenza

These days torx head screws are the gold standard for rifle scope mounts, deck installation, etc
 
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tank sniper said:
Mick, apparently you have had little or no experience with torx head screws...

Probably T-15 would be about right for the sebenza

These days torx head screws are the gold standard for rifle scope mounts, deck installation, etc
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I've had about 20 years experience actually mate, and we're talking about torx on folders here, not gun hardware in case you didn't read the question or my reply properly.

You can use your statement in regards to any form of fastener used in broad applications, problem is they don't use the right ones on the subject matter here in this thread.
 
I'm in the same boat as M Mick_1KRR , I've had more issues with torx screw heads stripping than allen heads. I actually talked to a couple of machinists about this. In applications where vibration and movement are present, the allen head will provide more surface contact than the torx head resulting in less stripped heads. Most of the equipment that they work on has allen heads. They have been replacing torx heads with allen heads. Maybe CRK does know how to build a reliable knife where even the novice knife owner can take it down without stripping any screws. :rolleyes:
 
A worthwhile discussion, but I wonder if someone who has more snap than me could post a pole to see how many on this forum have had an issue, or stripped a CRK allen head that did not have locktite on it?
 
From my own experience with hex and torx is that both are generally fine. Most of the issues arise from 2 things. Improper tool engagement, beit from a worn out tool or not fully seating the tool before turning or over torquing of the fastener beyond it's designed intent.
I will leave out buying cheap tools because if you spent the coin on a decent knife, then it would stand to reason that you probably should have spent the coin on a good tool. Wiha, wera, bondhus..etc
Use of loc-tite is a different beast that requires a little different procedure to approach in many circumstances. Heat..etc.

Hardened or heat treated fasteners may solve one problem, but cause others. Generally rust being one of the biggest. Heat treatable stainless isn't really a feasible option as it makes things more expensive than they need to be.
 
I've had Allen screws on my CRKs wear slowly to the point of eventual stripping, even with Wiha drivers. The clip screw is especially prone to this. I tend to over-tighten things though, so I'm sure that plays a big role in why they wear out for me. Luckily CRK sells me screws and things when I need them! :)

Pro tip: Don't ever mix up the clip screw from a Small 21 with a body/clip screw from a Small Inkosi. They look the same, but they're really not.
I inadvertently stripped the threads on a Small Inkosi backspacer this way. :(
 
mlamb said:
I would like to see the screws heat treated or hardened.
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Why? This presents zero advantage and removes the ability to use stainless hardware. I'm also interested in what industry you find hardened fasteners.
 
In my experience not just with knife screws but in general ... I agree the biggest problem I see are cheap bits or not getting the bit properly seated before trying to turn a screw ...

I have no issue with torx or hex or even robertson for that matter ... but good quailty bits and a steady hand make a huge difference just MHO ...

bhyde said:
From my own experience with hex and torx is that both are generally fine. Most of the issues arise from 2 things. Improper tool engagement, beit from a worn out tool or not fully seating the tool before turning or over torquing of the fastener beyond it's designed intent.
I will leave out buying cheap tools because if you spent the coin on a decent knife, then it would stand to reason that you probably should have spent the coin on a good tool. Wiha, wera, bondhus..etc
Use of loc-tite is a different beast that requires a little different procedure to approach in many circumstances. Heat..etc.

Hardened or heat treated fasteners may solve one problem, but cause others. Generally rust being one of the biggest. Heat treatable stainless isn't really a feasible option as it makes things more expensive than they need to be.
Click to expand...
 
tank sniper said:
the topic is "screw head design" and which is less likely to cam out or strip out .... obviously the right tool has to be used, etc...

it has been scientifically proven that torx is stronger than allen in that area

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
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To date, I have broken far more torx tools than hex. To boot, they have always been quality tools..Wiha or Wera is what I use for work.
What does this mean? Mostly that if you can use them to loosen with a greater advantage, you can also overtorque them with that exact same advantage.
Both issues to me are educational. If you are aware that keeping the tool perpendicular to the axis of rotation and fully seating helps, the problem largely solves itself. It also helps to understand that the spec is 6 or 8ft lbs..I will have to double check that, but it seems right from the foggiest of memories I have right now.
Probably should add that the torx tools were broken on removing the fastener.
 
tank sniper said:
the topic is "screw head design" and which is less likely to cam out or strip out .... obviously the right tool has to be used, etc...

it has been scientifically proven that torx is stronger than allen in that area

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that on folding knives it's just a whole different story which makes most arguments for torx irrelevant.

- The torx head on the screws used on folders is never, ever, deep enough. Makers don't have the same disassembly mindset as CRK, and i think that is why Chris chose to use allen heads for longevity.
- The shallow head of the torx invites user error in regards to holding the torx bit driver perfectly straight and is also subject to incorrect pressure. Too weak and the driver can unseat and strip out the sharp edges of the torx head design.

The allen head is deep, thus the walls of the screw head are self supporting, all you basically have to do is make sure it's all the way in and turn until it's loose. I honestly cannot see any advantage whatsoever for torx screw heads on a folder, I've just seen too many stripped heads, and i've only ever used Wiha drivers and I am seriously OCD about taking extra care when doing knife maintenance (pre-heating screws with loctite, perfect pressure etc. If they start making the torx heads nice and deep i think things would improve drastically.
 
I've had more issues with Torx than any other fastener type, T6 especially. At that point they just become too small to withstand a whole lot of torque. Tolerance of driver to fastener is pretty critical at that size also. Not to mention the teeth and shank of the driver are so small, they are prone to twisting and deformation. Do away with T6 on knives altogether and move them up to T8. You would see far fewer issues. As a mechanic, I've dealt with a lot of different fasteners, and small Torx always seem to give me the most trouble. Far less issues with Allen in my experience.

Edit to add: Torx were originally developed for tamperproof applications. Not necessarily because they are a stronger, more superior design.
 
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How many times are you all taking a knife apart that you eventually wear out the heads of the screws?
 
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