torx vs hex head screws

unwisefool said:
How many times are you all taking a knife apart that you eventually wear out the heads of the screws?
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While I rarely take my Sebenza apart, as the action is pretty much perfect no matter what I do, my Inkosi is another story. I find the action on that knife gets my OCD going sometimes and I take it down rather often. Doesn't help that the Inkosi hardware isn't as "deep" for the bit so it tends to cam out a bit easier. I just keep a few extras around because of that and try to remind myself to be less obsessive (with mixed results) as I like the Inkosi design very much.
 
FourD said:
While I rarely take my Sebenza apart, as the action is pretty much perfect no matter what I do, my Inkosi is another story. I find the action on that knife gets my OCD going sometimes and I take it down rather often. Doesn't help that the Inkosi hardware isn't as "deep" for the bit so it tends to cam out a bit easier. I just keep a few extras around because of that and try to remind myself to be less obsessive (with mixed results) as I like the Inkosi design very much.
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If I had to keep taking a knife apart that often I'd sell it and move on to something that doesn't drive me nuts
 
To each their own, I suppose. I'm giving exposure therapy a try. :)

I should clarify that I have gotten rid of a number of knives in the past that failed to meet my expectations. I like my Inkosi. It is the best of 3 I've handled and I'm keeping it because I absolutely love the design. I'm just extra picky about lock stick.
 
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unwisefool said:
How many times are you all taking a knife apart that you eventually wear out the heads of the screws?
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My user CRK's are probably taken down twice a year, maybe. However, I've had issues with other brands on the initial break down. I changed the scale on a fairly new knife and stripped the torx heads right off the bat. I've never had any issues with the CRK's
 
Bumping this up because I recently learned that Wera makes a line of Allen drivers called "Hex Plus" that are designed to reduce damage to Allen screw heads. I've ordered a couple 5/64" bits for my CRKs. I'm curious to see how they do as the Wiha drivers always round out the screw heads eventually.
 
My admitted limited experience is that there is more of a mechanical advantage with an Allen wrench and fastener than with Torx. My CRK's come apart easily and the fit of the wrench and fastener is tight and secure. Torx, not so much. I recently ordered some Wixa bits which should help. I am disassembling a Kizer and my lesser quality torx (T6) screwdrivers will not loosen the body screws. I hope this fixes my problem. But I have not had this issue with Allen fasteners.
 
I don't mind either.. just give me some depth please!

And don't dish the top portion, I want a nice positive fit. I like hardware that really holds on to a driver.

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The screws on my tibolt/Hinderer/CRK all hold straight and firm when the tool is inserted due to the depth of the hardware milling.

Spydercos are shallow and rounded at the opening. And yes, it's something I'm prepared to pay more for.
 
a 1/8" allen head is about the same distance, across the diameter, point to point, as a T-15.... too bad CRK won't upgrade to torx.. The head can still be a button head and have plenty of depth.
 
bhyde said:
From my own experience with hex and torx is that both are generally fine. Most of the issues arise from 2 things. Improper tool engagement, beit from a worn out tool or not fully seating the tool before turning or over torquing of the fastener beyond it's designed intent.
I will leave out buying cheap tools because if you spent the coin on a decent knife, then it would stand to reason that you probably should have spent the coin on a good tool. Wiha, wera, bondhus..etc
Use of loc-tite is a different beast that requires a little different procedure to approach in many circumstances. Heat..etc.

Hardened or heat treated fasteners may solve one problem, but cause others. Generally rust being one of the biggest. Heat treatable stainless isn't really a feasible option as it makes things more expensive than they need to be.
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I have long wanted for them to use hardened screws. Does CRK use hardened screws? I know I have seen them available on Alpha Knife Supply.

I heard that the advantage of torx is that it makes tools less likely to cam out, particularly power tools. However at the same time we are generally not using power tools to disassemble knives.

For hand powered application I actually tend to prefer hex. I have had similar experience where torx heads seem to get damaged. However this could be just down to the fact more knives use torx, thus more screws to strip.

I also think that a huge issue is that they are using those small t6 screws. Those should be banned from the knife world. If we look at the little teeth the driver is supposed to push against they are tiny. Look very easy to damage.
 
Josh K said:
Why? This presents zero advantage and removes the ability to use stainless hardware. I'm also interested in what industry you find hardened fasteners.
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Why can’t they harden stainless steel screws? I see on Alpha knife supply they have hardened screws. Also i have seen videos of huge ammounts of screws being hardened, someone must be using it.
 
No quality knife maker would use a T-6 which has a span of 0.066"...

T-15 would be appropriate for the sebenza 21 ... T-15 has about the same span as a 1/8" allen which is what I think is now on the seb 21 ... span of T-15 is 0.128"
 
Josh K said:
See #8 http://www.mastainless.com/faqs

Hardened screws? Completely unnecessary.
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So steels which provide the desired ammount of rust resistance (300) series cannot be heat hardened.

I am to assume that making screws out of higher end steels which can be heat treated would be too expensive? Alpha Knife Supply has 440 screws for not very expensive at all. I would gladly pay that small premium for better screws that could be hardened.

Either way I would like to see an end to t6 screws.
 
Lapedog said:
So steels which provide the desired ammount of rust resistance (300) series cannot be heat hardened.

I am to assume that making screws out of higher end steels which can be heat treated would be too expensive? Alpha Knife Supply has 440 screws for not very expensive at all. I would gladly pay that small premium for better screws that could be hardened.

Either way I would like to see an end to t6 screws.
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Any form of T6 hex screw should be wiped from the face of the planet IMO. Seriously, even custom makers use them, it's an utter joke. Hey lets make a new US military tank and use tack welds to hold her together, she'll be right.
 
Mick_1KRR said:
Any form of T6 hex screw should be wiped from the face of the planet IMO. Seriously, even custom makers use them, it's an utter joke. Hey lets make a new US military tank and use tack welds to hold her together, she'll be right.
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I prefer to hold my military vehicles together with some chewed bubble gum.
 
Lapedog said:
Why not? Would it not be like a hardened steel blade? Less likely to be deformed? (In the blade that would be rolling the edge)
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Do you cut things with fasteners? Harder is not better. The tool itself is probably 55 RC.

Deformation of the fastener is because you're applying too much torque. The solution to this is not make harder/larger fasteners. It's to stop wrenching on it so hard.
 
Josh K said:
Do you cut things with fasteners? Harder is not better. The tool itself is probably 55 RC.

Deformation of the fastener is because you're applying too much torque. The solution to this is not make harder/larger fasteners. It's to stop wrenching on it so hard.
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That still doesn’t explain why harder screws would not be better. In no way am I saying that the screws should be made so hard as to be brittle.

What if the screws came in at 30hrcx would it not be better for them to be abit harder? Well whatever the screws are coming in at now, I think it could be better if they were closer to that 55hrc.

Saying there is no benefit to screws being harder, just don’t torque hard so you don’t strip them sounds alot like saying a car doesn’t need to be good at protecting passengers in a crash, just don’t crash it.

If one cannot tighten his screw down fully for fear of stripping it, how does one prevent it from backing out? Putting even purple loctite would requite more torque to undo the screw than was ever put on them just by tightening them down to a degree where they were fully seated.

I still don’t see how a hardened screw is useless. If it will allow a greater degree of user error then that doesn’t seem useless to me.

I still think the biggest issue is the use of t6 screws though. The camming surface on the heads is the tiny little interior points of the star. I would imagine if those tiny points weren’t so soft they would be less prone to stripping out.
 
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