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torx vs hex head screws

Discussion in 'Chris Reeve Knives' started by tank sniper, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. FourD

    FourD Gold Member Gold Member

    65
    Nov 30, 2017
    While I rarely take my Sebenza apart, as the action is pretty much perfect no matter what I do, my Inkosi is another story. I find the action on that knife gets my OCD going sometimes and I take it down rather often. Doesn't help that the Inkosi hardware isn't as "deep" for the bit so it tends to cam out a bit easier. I just keep a few extras around because of that and try to remind myself to be less obsessive (with mixed results) as I like the Inkosi design very much.
     
  2. unwisefool

    unwisefool Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 22, 2007
    If I had to keep taking a knife apart that often I'd sell it and move on to something that doesn't drive me nuts
     
  3. FourD

    FourD Gold Member Gold Member

    65
    Nov 30, 2017
    To each their own, I suppose. I'm giving exposure therapy a try. :)

    I should clarify that I have gotten rid of a number of knives in the past that failed to meet my expectations. I like my Inkosi. It is the best of 3 I've handled and I'm keeping it because I absolutely love the design. I'm just extra picky about lock stick.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  4. Ajack60

    Ajack60 Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Apr 21, 2013
    My user CRK's are probably taken down twice a year, maybe. However, I've had issues with other brands on the initial break down. I changed the scale on a fairly new knife and stripped the torx heads right off the bat. I've never had any issues with the CRK's
     
    Lapedog likes this.
  5. FourD

    FourD Gold Member Gold Member

    65
    Nov 30, 2017
    Bumping this up because I recently learned that Wera makes a line of Allen drivers called "Hex Plus" that are designed to reduce damage to Allen screw heads. I've ordered a couple 5/64" bits for my CRKs. I'm curious to see how they do as the Wiha drivers always round out the screw heads eventually.
     
  6. MSchott

    MSchott Gold Member Gold Member

    242
    Feb 9, 2017
    My admitted limited experience is that there is more of a mechanical advantage with an Allen wrench and fastener than with Torx. My CRK's come apart easily and the fit of the wrench and fastener is tight and secure. Torx, not so much. I recently ordered some Wixa bits which should help. I am disassembling a Kizer and my lesser quality torx (T6) screwdrivers will not loosen the body screws. I hope this fixes my problem. But I have not had this issue with Allen fasteners.
     
  7. marcus52AR

    marcus52AR Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 22, 2014
    I don't mind either.. just give me some depth please!

    And don't dish the top portion, I want a nice positive fit. I like hardware that really holds on to a driver.

    20180313_091250-1494x2656.jpg 20180313_091317-1494x2656.jpg

    The screws on my tibolt/Hinderer/CRK all hold straight and firm when the tool is inserted due to the depth of the hardware milling.

    Spydercos are shallow and rounded at the opening. And yes, it's something I'm prepared to pay more for.
     
    PirateSeulb likes this.
  8. tank sniper

    tank sniper

    108
    Jan 8, 2018
    a 1/8" allen head is about the same distance, across the diameter, point to point, as a T-15.... too bad CRK won't upgrade to torx.. The head can still be a button head and have plenty of depth.
     
  9. Lapedog

    Lapedog Basic Member Basic Member

    Dec 7, 2016
    I have long wanted for them to use hardened screws. Does CRK use hardened screws? I know I have seen them available on Alpha Knife Supply.

    I heard that the advantage of torx is that it makes tools less likely to cam out, particularly power tools. However at the same time we are generally not using power tools to disassemble knives.

    For hand powered application I actually tend to prefer hex. I have had similar experience where torx heads seem to get damaged. However this could be just down to the fact more knives use torx, thus more screws to strip.

    I also think that a huge issue is that they are using those small t6 screws. Those should be banned from the knife world. If we look at the little teeth the driver is supposed to push against they are tiny. Look very easy to damage.
     
  10. Lapedog

    Lapedog Basic Member Basic Member

    Dec 7, 2016
    Why can’t they harden stainless steel screws? I see on Alpha knife supply they have hardened screws. Also i have seen videos of huge ammounts of screws being hardened, someone must be using it.
     
  11. tank sniper

    tank sniper

    108
    Jan 8, 2018
    No quality knife maker would use a T-6 which has a span of 0.066"...

    T-15 would be appropriate for the sebenza 21 ... T-15 has about the same span as a 1/8" allen which is what I think is now on the seb 21 ... span of T-15 is 0.128"
     
  12. Josh K

    Josh K Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    See #8 http://www.mastainless.com/faqs

    Hardened screws? Completely unnecessary.
     
  13. Lapedog

    Lapedog Basic Member Basic Member

    Dec 7, 2016
    So steels which provide the desired ammount of rust resistance (300) series cannot be heat hardened.

    I am to assume that making screws out of higher end steels which can be heat treated would be too expensive? Alpha Knife Supply has 440 screws for not very expensive at all. I would gladly pay that small premium for better screws that could be hardened.

    Either way I would like to see an end to t6 screws.
     
  14. Mick_1KRR

    Mick_1KRR

    912
    May 1, 2016
    Any form of T6 hex screw should be wiped from the face of the planet IMO. Seriously, even custom makers use them, it's an utter joke. Hey lets make a new US military tank and use tack welds to hold her together, she'll be right.
     
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  15. Lapedog

    Lapedog Basic Member Basic Member

    Dec 7, 2016
    I prefer to hold my military vehicles together with some chewed bubble gum.
     
    Mick_1KRR likes this.
  16. Mick_1KRR

    Mick_1KRR

    912
    May 1, 2016
    That'll still do you better than T6
     
    Lapedog likes this.
  17. Josh K

    Josh K Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    Hardened fasteners aren't better.
     
  18. Lapedog

    Lapedog Basic Member Basic Member

    Dec 7, 2016
    Why not? Would it not be like a hardened steel blade? Less likely to be deformed? (In the blade that would be rolling the edge)
     
  19. Josh K

    Josh K Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    Do you cut things with fasteners? Harder is not better. The tool itself is probably 55 RC.

    Deformation of the fastener is because you're applying too much torque. The solution to this is not make harder/larger fasteners. It's to stop wrenching on it so hard.
     
  20. Lapedog

    Lapedog Basic Member Basic Member

    Dec 7, 2016
    That still doesn’t explain why harder screws would not be better. In no way am I saying that the screws should be made so hard as to be brittle.

    What if the screws came in at 30hrcx would it not be better for them to be abit harder? Well whatever the screws are coming in at now, I think it could be better if they were closer to that 55hrc.

    Saying there is no benefit to screws being harder, just don’t torque hard so you don’t strip them sounds alot like saying a car doesn’t need to be good at protecting passengers in a crash, just don’t crash it.

    If one cannot tighten his screw down fully for fear of stripping it, how does one prevent it from backing out? Putting even purple loctite would requite more torque to undo the screw than was ever put on them just by tightening them down to a degree where they were fully seated.

    I still don’t see how a hardened screw is useless. If it will allow a greater degree of user error then that doesn’t seem useless to me.

    I still think the biggest issue is the use of t6 screws though. The camming surface on the heads is the tiny little interior points of the star. I would imagine if those tiny points weren’t so soft they would be less prone to stripping out.
     

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