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Total Newbie: First Knife UPDATE: Done!
- Thread starter Steve98
- Start date
Oh - one more question:
If I do make a small forge, I seem to have three common low-cost options:
So...which do I build? Are they all pretty well interchangable?
The 1kg coffee cans I'm discussing are probably around 8-9" diameter, so I'd have around a 5" x 8" forge volume if I had 2" of insulation.
If I do make a small forge, I seem to have three common low-cost options:
- Large (1kg) coffee can forge: Lined with plaster-of-paris + sand
- Large (1kg) coffee can forge: Lined with 2" kaowool and ITC-100 coated
- 2 Brick Forge
So...which do I build? Are they all pretty well interchangable?
The 1kg coffee cans I'm discussing are probably around 8-9" diameter, so I'd have around a 5" x 8" forge volume if I had 2" of insulation.
Josh Rider
Stuff maker
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2014
- Messages
- 2,428
I would do a 2 brick forge. Or buy an Atlas mini forge.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2013
- Messages
- 1,574
I've done quite a bit of 1084 in a 2 brick forge. Definitely can get above non magnetic.
Willie71
Warren J. Krywko
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Messages
- 12,214
Please describe how you did the heat treat. I'm struggling to see how you measured and maintained 1200f for 10 min, then evenly ramped up to 1475 for 10 minutes. If you didn't do this, you lost a bunch of performance in the blade, and are likely worse off than if you just used 1084 or 1075. Please don't mislead people. Ask questions as long as you like, but don't give out bogus information. Some of us have spent a fair amount of time learning how to heat treat our blades. We freely give that information out here. We don't need bad information spread around.
Ok, update:
So I reduced my ambitions and went for a smaller petty-style knife. I stuck my angle grinder in a vise (below) to do the bulk material removal and some of the cutting. I built myself a jig per Aaron Gough's design, and did more filing.
I semi-accidentally ended up modifying the jig for (I think) the better: Instead of resting the end of the guide-rod in an eye bolt, I rested it right on a block of wood that ran the width of the jig. This meant that I could control the angle of the file throughout the stroke and worked much better for me, especially when working the tip and when draw filing. I can't stress enough how much better this worked for me.
Angle grinder:
Knife when done. I had the granite block out because I decided to try heating it with my MAPP torch and hammering it a bit to add some surface texture.
Result was pretty good. The oxidization wasn't thick enough, but I figured for a first pass it was encouraging. You can see the two spots where I kept the torch still for too long. This process did prove to me that even the small blade could not be hardened with my torch alone.
That was the end of day one. Well almost. With all that grinding I found my face and head itchy and figured I had embedded a ton of metal. So I took a magnet to my hair and face - about 1/3 of this came off my face
I ended up going to a rental blacksmith shop (mentioned earlier, found on Kijiji which is like a craigslist kinda deal) in Toronto. The operator of the shop was really helpful. I set out as my goals to further oxidize the small knife, harden it, and to also thin out the O1 in an attempt to progress the larger gyuto that I wanted.
The little knife in the shop forge:
I normalized it with 3 heats allowing it to cool with the forge. Then heated it again, let it soak hot for 3 minutes, and quenched it in a container of vegetable oil. Worked great, no warping, no cracking. Here is the blade, heat treated, ready for tempering (which it's doing now as I type this), final grinding, and handling. Note that I've changed my mind to go for a hidden tang and decided to skip making the shoulders. Also, I ended up doing something different with the tip than I had planned originally.
I tried my hand at thinning the O1 by hand with a ~3b peen hammer. Here is the O1 bar in the shop's larger forge:
A few hammer blows later I was pretty sure that thinning the blade was not going to be any fun. Luckily, the shop also has a 120lb air hammer. So I used that. I actually think I fell in love with that machine. I might marry it. Forging and hammering with it was a ton of fun. After thinning it pretty good I started working on it with the hammer again to thin the edge profile. After some amount of work we let it cool and cut the ends a bit to remove excess material where I will eventually make the blade tip. I did not have time (or really the desire) to try and form the edge via hammering alone.
Total time in the rental shop was about 2 hours before I had to run. My plan now is to flatten the gyuto a bit, cut the tang, grind the profile, grind a bit of the bevel (with a 10" bench grinder), then figure out heat treating it. I could go back to the rental shop, but I'm hoping I can accomplish the normalizing and heat treat in a 2 brick forge (which I am yet to build).
So I reduced my ambitions and went for a smaller petty-style knife. I stuck my angle grinder in a vise (below) to do the bulk material removal and some of the cutting. I built myself a jig per Aaron Gough's design, and did more filing.
I semi-accidentally ended up modifying the jig for (I think) the better: Instead of resting the end of the guide-rod in an eye bolt, I rested it right on a block of wood that ran the width of the jig. This meant that I could control the angle of the file throughout the stroke and worked much better for me, especially when working the tip and when draw filing. I can't stress enough how much better this worked for me.
Angle grinder:
Knife when done. I had the granite block out because I decided to try heating it with my MAPP torch and hammering it a bit to add some surface texture.
Result was pretty good. The oxidization wasn't thick enough, but I figured for a first pass it was encouraging. You can see the two spots where I kept the torch still for too long. This process did prove to me that even the small blade could not be hardened with my torch alone.
That was the end of day one. Well almost. With all that grinding I found my face and head itchy and figured I had embedded a ton of metal. So I took a magnet to my hair and face - about 1/3 of this came off my face
I ended up going to a rental blacksmith shop (mentioned earlier, found on Kijiji which is like a craigslist kinda deal) in Toronto. The operator of the shop was really helpful. I set out as my goals to further oxidize the small knife, harden it, and to also thin out the O1 in an attempt to progress the larger gyuto that I wanted.
The little knife in the shop forge:
I normalized it with 3 heats allowing it to cool with the forge. Then heated it again, let it soak hot for 3 minutes, and quenched it in a container of vegetable oil. Worked great, no warping, no cracking. Here is the blade, heat treated, ready for tempering (which it's doing now as I type this), final grinding, and handling. Note that I've changed my mind to go for a hidden tang and decided to skip making the shoulders. Also, I ended up doing something different with the tip than I had planned originally.
I tried my hand at thinning the O1 by hand with a ~3b peen hammer. Here is the O1 bar in the shop's larger forge:
A few hammer blows later I was pretty sure that thinning the blade was not going to be any fun. Luckily, the shop also has a 120lb air hammer. So I used that. I actually think I fell in love with that machine. I might marry it. Forging and hammering with it was a ton of fun. After thinning it pretty good I started working on it with the hammer again to thin the edge profile. After some amount of work we let it cool and cut the ends a bit to remove excess material where I will eventually make the blade tip. I did not have time (or really the desire) to try and form the edge via hammering alone.
Total time in the rental shop was about 2 hours before I had to run. My plan now is to flatten the gyuto a bit, cut the tang, grind the profile, grind a bit of the bevel (with a 10" bench grinder), then figure out heat treating it. I could go back to the rental shop, but I'm hoping I can accomplish the normalizing and heat treat in a 2 brick forge (which I am yet to build).
Ok, my reduced expectations knife (the small paring knife) is now done!
There are little mistakes all over it, I probably wouldn't use ceder again (I knew it was not the best choice but it was handy), but it's sharp as heck and I learned a lot along the way.
The second knife (alluded to earlier in this chain of messages) is still going to be a larger chef's knife. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do with the handle so I haven't made much progress there.
I didn't end up asking a lot of questions but I did rely on all the historical posts quite a lot, so thanks to everyone for that!
There are little mistakes all over it, I probably wouldn't use ceder again (I knew it was not the best choice but it was handy), but it's sharp as heck and I learned a lot along the way.
The second knife (alluded to earlier in this chain of messages) is still going to be a larger chef's knife. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do with the handle so I haven't made much progress there.
I didn't end up asking a lot of questions but I did rely on all the historical posts quite a lot, so thanks to everyone for that!