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Tough transaction - Be careful

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by russ25, Sep 6, 2020.

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  1. ruddyduck

    ruddyduck Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 30, 2019
    I'm new to the knife world, but I've bought, sold, and traded over 200 watches over the past 12 years. Twice buyers reached out after they received a watch I sold to them to let me know they weren't satisfied for whatever reason, and they wanted a partial refund. I don't play that game. The only option I would give us a full refund plus the shipping fees they incurred to send the watch back to me.
    rdtshaw, DMG, LizaMari and 5 others like this.
  2. d.r.h.

    d.r.h. Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 13, 2012
    Looks like this will eventually work itself out between Matt and Russ ... I hope so. However, I read a couple of things that about which I want to give (or get, in case I am totally wrong) some insight.

    It used to be that PP charged no fees for refunds. Buyer sends seller X amount ... seller receive X amount minus Paypal fees. Seller initiates a refund, paypal sends the buyer the entire X amount (PayPal returns what the seller originally received and kicks back to the buyer the fees it collected from the seller on the transaction) Both the seller and buyer were whole (except for shipping costs). Quite some time ago (don't remember when) I thought Paypal changed its policy so that when the seller initiated a refund, the buyer would get the entire X amount returned, but Paypal wouldn't be kicking in those fees, per se. The fees originally charged to the seller would need to be paid back to PayPal by the seller. So, the buyer would be whole, but the seller would still be out the fees originally deducted for the transaction. Now, I don't really understand the $75 mentioned in the OP, but unless there are some kind of other currency fees (mentioned in the 2nd post), the seller should have been out somewhere around $40 for returning one of those payments (or $80 for both).

    I know this is a little off topic with respect to the post .... but kind of important and curious to know if I understand this correctly. When I first heard of this (whenever it was that I believe PP announced the policy change) thought to myself that if I ever had to issue a refund, I would want to discuss the refund issue with the buyer first. If the refund was for a problem with a knife I sold .... I would accept the "loss". However, if the requested refund was because the buyer just didn't like the knife ( for a subjective reason such as our ideas of ease of opening, or detent strength were totally different), I might want to discuss somehow splitting that loss.
    Sharp & Fiery likes this.
  3. Sharp & Fiery

    Sharp & Fiery Always Embellish Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    May 14, 2012
    I would say I agree with this, however, it is the responibility of the buyer to ask specific questions as well.
    My issue with this thread is that the buyer has zero (and never had) any intention of sending the knife back for a full refund. He has always planned on keeping it. So the ONLY reason for starting this thread was to “gain” the support of other BF members to try to pressure seller into giving him the $250 partial refund. $250 refund is crazy...Sending to Crk and getting new washers is less $. Buyers remorse for paying so much.
    You are wanting to hold the seller here higher than we hold actual companies that sell knives. If we get a crap knife from a store...send back for full refund...i dont get to negotiate a “proper” price with them. Full refund or keep it.
    In my opinion, the seller did not do a great complete checkover of knife, and the buyer didnt ask the right questions.
    Also in my opinion, very very unnecessary thread.
  4. Boru13

    Boru13 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Mod Moderator

    Apr 25, 2000
    This I have to disagree with, if the seller provides a detailed and accurate description there wouldn't be a need for the buyer to ask any questions. When it comes to a transaction I place the majority of responsibility upon the seller, the buyer is responsible for paying in a timely manner, the rest is on the seller in my opinion.
    This I agree with but I see a problem if it is a washer issue.

    I purchased my first Sebenza back in the 1999/2000 time frame, a large BG42 model just like the OP's. I'm far from a CRK expert but if my memory is correct, the washers used back then were solid bronze, not the perforated washers that CRK currently uses. If the knife was mine and the original solid washers were replaced with perforated washers I would not be happy regardless of whether it fixed the blade play issue or not. As far as I'm concerned it would destroy any collectible/collector value.
  5. Sharp & Fiery

    Sharp & Fiery Always Embellish Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    May 14, 2012
    There are a lot of NIT Gec’s on the exchange that the only description is NIT. So is that enough of a description? Or should the buyer ask questions? It could have come from the factory with a defect like an uncentered blade.

    I 100% agree that it would also bug me if i had to get perforated washers in my Regular to get rid of the blade play. Also correct that they are solid washers in the Reg. :)

    I still stand by my statement...the only way to make it right is by returning the knife for a full refund. The buyer doesnt want to do this.
    So...in my opinion, unnecessary thread.
    tinfoil hat timmy likes this.
  6. Beak14

    Beak14 Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Nov 13, 2015
    Respectfully, I disagree with you! Once they reached an impasse, what happened? Russ decided he was going to get the community behind him, and pressure Matt into refunding his money - upon return of the knife.

    I'd love to see the exchanges, between the two, to see if Matt's offer(s) of partial refund, were reasonable. I bet they were, and it didn't matter.

    To me, this is a super-weird thread. "I'd like to tell you how ****** Matt is, but I still love him!" Yeah, well, you don't start a thread like this, and think you're going to walk away, without permanent damage to a relationship, unless you have some type of mental issue!

    Just my thoughts, FWIW!
  7. Boru13

    Boru13 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Mod Moderator

    Apr 25, 2000
    No, that's not enough of a description and a off centered blade should be disclosed by the seller whether it's NIT or not.

    From the Exchange rules.
    When describing your items, be honest and provide an accurate & detailed description of the item. Don't forget to mention defects, blemishes, new, used, or other problems. When in doubt, be pessimistic with your descriptions.

    My bold above is 100% on the seller, the buyer is not responsible for any of that.

    I knew we'd agree on something eventually ;)
    moshow9 likes this.
  8. Sharp & Fiery

    Sharp & Fiery Always Embellish Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    May 14, 2012
    Haha! :D That made me chuckle. Just discussing of course, and I also agree that NIT is not enough of a description, but someone will buy it based on just that and we will possibly be right back with a thread like this one.
    I think we can also agree that this is a very unfortunate situation either way.
    I’ve stated my opinion, and will not bother you anymore with any nitpicking.
    Thank you for the respectful interaction.
    Hard Knocks and Boru13 like this.
  9. Worldwatcher

    Worldwatcher Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 19, 2015
    No need to post private messages here. This post is confusing as it seems to be on both sides of the fence. This post does not clearly say it, but it seems there has been resolution. I think we all learned some lessons here. I would have no problem doing business with either of you gentlemen in the future.
    russ25 likes this.
  10. Gastonknife

    Gastonknife Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 15, 2008
    Seems like the seller made the mistake of not thoroughly inspecting the knife. The buyer created a mess with all the payment issues. Then there was some confusion about fees and how to refund a second payment. The buyer realized there was an issue with the knife. The buyer then asked for a large partial refund for that. Seller said no, but seems ok on a full refund and return of knife. For some reason the buyer starts this thread - which makes little sense especially since he expresses a fondness for the seller.
    I'd imagine that the two could have resolved this privately and avoided all the drama here. Now there is negative fb. This is all just silly and odd.
    DMG, ironwagon, Worldwatcher and 3 others like this.
  11. Monofletch

    Monofletch Basic Member Basic Member

    Jan 14, 2010
    After you starting this thread the friend thing would be out the window for me! A friend shouldn't air dirty laundry without trying to settle the matter privately.
    That’s just my opinion though.....
    DMG, Worldwatcher, Tigerfan and 3 others like this.
  12. DMG

    DMG Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 30, 2005

    This is passive-aggressive, manipulative BS from someone with buyers remorse. If you aren’t here to bash him, what are you doing?
    Sharp & Fiery likes this.
  13. russ25

    russ25 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 19, 2012
    Seems as if I should have. All I wanted to do is state what happened. And move on, which I have. Sorry to have caused such a stir BF.
  14. Bigfattyt

    Bigfattyt Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 23, 2007
    I've had a few purchases on here where I was seven disappointed with custom knives.

    I don't thin i should have to ask, as a buyer, "how drunkenly uneven are the grind lines??"

    I would never have asked "does the harpoon grind make a extreme bend from right to left so much that it looks like each end is flat grouns from a different angle"

    How bent is the blade???

    Viewed from the spine how many degrees off is the tip?

    Does a single grind line match up with another anywhere on the blade or handle?

    Extreme examples, but I've been really burned a few times!

    I've also sold used knives and had buyers contact me to say the knife was way better than I described (had that happen with used vehicles I've sold as well).

    Pictures and descriptions paired to accurately describe and show the knife.
  15. Boru13

    Boru13 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Mod Moderator

    Apr 25, 2000
    Nothing helpful being added, thread closed.
    Sharp & Fiery likes this.
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