I'm new to the knife world, but I've bought, sold, and traded over 200 watches over the past 12 years. Twice buyers reached out after they received a watch I sold to them to let me know they weren't satisfied for whatever reason, and they wanted a partial refund. I don't play that game. The only option I would give us a full refund plus the shipping fees they incurred to send the watch back to me.
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Tough transaction - Be careful
- Thread starter russ25
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Looks like this will eventually work itself out between Matt and Russ ... I hope so. However, I read a couple of things that about which I want to give (or get, in case I am totally wrong) some insight.
It used to be that PP charged no fees for refunds. Buyer sends seller X amount ... seller receive X amount minus Paypal fees. Seller initiates a refund, paypal sends the buyer the entire X amount (PayPal returns what the seller originally received and kicks back to the buyer the fees it collected from the seller on the transaction) Both the seller and buyer were whole (except for shipping costs). Quite some time ago (don't remember when) I thought Paypal changed its policy so that when the seller initiated a refund, the buyer would get the entire X amount returned, but Paypal wouldn't be kicking in those fees, per se. The fees originally charged to the seller would need to be paid back to PayPal by the seller. So, the buyer would be whole, but the seller would still be out the fees originally deducted for the transaction. Now, I don't really understand the $75 mentioned in the OP, but unless there are some kind of other currency fees (mentioned in the 2nd post), the seller should have been out somewhere around $40 for returning one of those payments (or $80 for both).
I know this is a little off topic with respect to the post .... but kind of important and curious to know if I understand this correctly. When I first heard of this (whenever it was that I believe PP announced the policy change) thought to myself that if I ever had to issue a refund, I would want to discuss the refund issue with the buyer first. If the refund was for a problem with a knife I sold .... I would accept the "loss". However, if the requested refund was because the buyer just didn't like the knife ( for a subjective reason such as our ideas of ease of opening, or detent strength were totally different), I might want to discuss somehow splitting that loss.
It used to be that PP charged no fees for refunds. Buyer sends seller X amount ... seller receive X amount minus Paypal fees. Seller initiates a refund, paypal sends the buyer the entire X amount (PayPal returns what the seller originally received and kicks back to the buyer the fees it collected from the seller on the transaction) Both the seller and buyer were whole (except for shipping costs). Quite some time ago (don't remember when) I thought Paypal changed its policy so that when the seller initiated a refund, the buyer would get the entire X amount returned, but Paypal wouldn't be kicking in those fees, per se. The fees originally charged to the seller would need to be paid back to PayPal by the seller. So, the buyer would be whole, but the seller would still be out the fees originally deducted for the transaction. Now, I don't really understand the $75 mentioned in the OP, but unless there are some kind of other currency fees (mentioned in the 2nd post), the seller should have been out somewhere around $40 for returning one of those payments (or $80 for both).
I know this is a little off topic with respect to the post .... but kind of important and curious to know if I understand this correctly. When I first heard of this (whenever it was that I believe PP announced the policy change) thought to myself that if I ever had to issue a refund, I would want to discuss the refund issue with the buyer first. If the refund was for a problem with a knife I sold .... I would accept the "loss". However, if the requested refund was because the buyer just didn't like the knife ( for a subjective reason such as our ideas of ease of opening, or detent strength were totally different), I might want to discuss somehow splitting that loss.
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I would say I agree with this, however, it is the responibility of the buyer to ask specific questions as well.
My issue with this thread is that the buyer has zero (and never had) any intention of sending the knife back for a full refund. He has always planned on keeping it. So the ONLY reason for starting this thread was to “gain” the support of other BF members to try to pressure seller into giving him the $250 partial refund. $250 refund is crazy...Sending to Crk and getting new washers is less $. Buyers remorse for paying so much.
You are wanting to hold the seller here higher than we hold actual companies that sell knives. If we get a crap knife from a store...send back for full refund...i dont get to negotiate a “proper” price with them. Full refund or keep it.
In my opinion, the seller did not do a great complete checkover of knife, and the buyer didnt ask the right questions.
Also in my opinion, very very unnecessary thread.
This I have to disagree with, if the seller provides a detailed and accurate description there wouldn't be a need for the buyer to ask any questions. When it comes to a transaction I place the majority of responsibility upon the seller, the buyer is responsible for paying in a timely manner, the rest is on the seller in my opinion.
This I agree with but I see a problem if it is a washer issue.
I purchased my first Sebenza back in the 1999/2000 time frame, a large BG42 model just like the OP's. I'm far from a CRK expert but if my memory is correct, the washers used back then were solid bronze, not the perforated washers that CRK currently uses. If the knife was mine and the original solid washers were replaced with perforated washers I would not be happy regardless of whether it fixed the blade play issue or not. As far as I'm concerned it would destroy any collectible/collector value.
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There are a lot of NIT Gec’s on the exchange that the only description is NIT. So is that enough of a description? Or should the buyer ask questions? It could have come from the factory with a defect like an uncentered blade.
I 100% agree that it would also bug me if i had to get perforated washers in my Regular to get rid of the blade play. Also correct that they are solid washers in the Reg.
I still stand by my statement...the only way to make it right is by returning the knife for a full refund. The buyer doesnt want to do this.
So...in my opinion, unnecessary thread.
Respectfully, I disagree with you! Once they reached an impasse, what happened? Russ decided he was going to get the community behind him, and pressure Matt into refunding his money - upon return of the knife.
I'd love to see the exchanges, between the two, to see if Matt's offer(s) of partial refund, were reasonable. I bet they were, and it didn't matter.
To me, this is a super-weird thread. "I'd like to tell you how ****** Matt is, but I still love him!" Yeah, well, you don't start a thread like this, and think you're going to walk away, without permanent damage to a relationship, unless you have some type of mental issue!
Just my thoughts, FWIW!
No, that's not enough of a description and a off centered blade should be disclosed by the seller whether it's NIT or not.
From the Exchange rules.
When describing your items, be honest and provide an accurate & detailed description of the item. Don't forget to mention defects, blemishes, new, used, or other problems. When in doubt, be pessimistic with your descriptions.
My bold above is 100% on the seller, the buyer is not responsible for any of that.
I knew we'd agree on something eventuallyI 100% agree that it would also bug me if i had to get perforated washers in my Regular to get rid of the blade play. Also correct that they are solid washers in the Reg.
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No, that's not enough of a description and a off centered blade should be disclosed by the seller whether it's NIT or not.
From the Exchange rules.
When describing your items, be honest and provide an accurate & detailed description of the item. Don't forget to mention defects, blemishes, new, used, or other problems. When in doubt, be pessimistic with your descriptions.
My bold above is 100% on the seller, the buyer is not responsible for any of that.
I knew we'd agree on something eventually
Haha!
That made me chuckle. Just discussing of course, and I also agree that NIT is not enough of a description, but someone will buy it based on just that and we will possibly be right back with a thread like this one.I think we can also agree that this is a very unfortunate situation either way.
I’ve stated my opinion, and will not bother you anymore with any nitpicking.
Thank you for the respectful interaction.
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No need to post private messages here. This post is confusing as it seems to be on both sides of the fence. This post does not clearly say it, but it seems there has been resolution. I think we all learned some lessons here. I would have no problem doing business with either of you gentlemen in the future.Good Morning all,
Worldwatcher
Sharp & Fiery
Lets start with addressing some concerns:
Also, not sure why you had to wait to “gather funds,” as you were able to send two payments. Hmmm...
I didn't have the total funds set aside for a knife that was double what I was expecting to pay. Matt and I had discussed the S30V he currently has for sale for at least a month. When he decided he wanted to make profit I stepped aside. So i didnt have all the cash available at the moment but if you look at the dates on these threads you will see that I sold 7 knives to come up with the remainder of the money needed to purchase the higher end knife. Please double check me here. I don't have money sitting around and if this was wrong, then I am wrong.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/large-inkosi-and-umnumzaan.1746424/
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/wts-becker-esse-spyderco-kabar.1746427/#post-19975362
Next:
Also add that the buyer started the thread and then disappeared, while the seller has been proactive in trying to come to a positive resolution.
I mentioned in my opening post that I was not here to bash anyone and that I was taking this as a learning experience. I had my say on the matter. And after being told: Matt's response was basically NO. Sadly, I will take this as a learning experience and move on.
I do not think it would be right to sit on a public forum and talk shit about someone who you have had many great conversations with and thought of as a friend. I spoke the truth about the matter as I saw it, Matt did the same. We both "liked" each other response. I feel we have both been civil discussing this. It is not my intention to sit and stew on this, thus my absence from the post. I noticed right away he changed the post to add more information. He says we discussed it, we did right after i mentioned the issue. I have the facebook messages to prove it. Actually I have all of them, just as he does. Who want to see the whole chain? we could certainly put together a timeline then. Again, I am not here to bother or bash anyone, just stating my side.
Next:
Problems should be attempted to be resolved between the persons involved, before Feedback threads are started. (Bold is mine)
Matt's words: I'm willing to work with you Russ, but I will not consider a refund as an option.
At that point I took no for NO! and then moved on. said my peace and left it at that.
Now it has been noted that Matt felt I was asking for a complete refund. And this would explain his answer of NO.
He reached out to me and explained. offered "some compensation". I replied and asked for 250.00 refund. To include half of the refund fee of the over payment. He replied with a counter offer. He then sent me money of which i did not agree too. I have refunded the money to him.
In my eyes I was told NO, and was done, seller reached out again, I gave a second chance to make it right. I wasn't happy, asked him to move on as well. Now he has contacted me for the knife back and wants to do a full refund.
I have mentioned before several times, I want the knife, I just feel slighted by the seller whether it was an honest mistake or if he did know about it before hand. He was sure quick to hold it for a for sure sale. Honestly, I don't think this was the case, or I don't want to believe that Matt would do business that way. Guys I have no hard feelings for Matt, I'm just not able to do business like this. Not sure how many times I need to say this but I just want to move on. I will have the knife looked at and yes I do believe CRK will take care of the blade play.
So how many of you would like the full messages chain from Matt and myself? I am happy to post, I have nothing to hide here and want to be totally transparent.
Matt,
I am not interested in a full refund. At this point I have given you and the forum what would make me feel better about the transaction.I am sure I will take a hit on the negative feedback as well. I will just have to live with it, i still stand behind my comments. I am sorry for the feedback, but nothing said was malicious in any way. And I doubt this will ever be settled, but if it would become that way I would certainly update my feedback and this post. Feedback is to help protect us from tough transactions, I was merely providing mine. Good Luck my Friend.
Russ
Gastonknife
Gold Member
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Seems like the seller made the mistake of not thoroughly inspecting the knife. The buyer created a mess with all the payment issues. Then there was some confusion about fees and how to refund a second payment. The buyer realized there was an issue with the knife. The buyer then asked for a large partial refund for that. Seller said no, but seems ok on a full refund and return of knife. For some reason the buyer starts this thread - which makes little sense especially since he expresses a fondness for the seller.
I'd imagine that the two could have resolved this privately and avoided all the drama here. Now there is negative fb. This is all just silly and odd.
I'd imagine that the two could have resolved this privately and avoided all the drama here. Now there is negative fb. This is all just silly and odd.
Monofletch
Gold Member
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After you starting this thread the friend thing would be out the window for me! A friend shouldn't air dirty laundry without trying to settle the matter privately.
That’s just my opinion though.....
That’s just my opinion though.....
I've had a few purchases on here where I was seven disappointed with custom knives.
I don't thin i should have to ask, as a buyer, "how drunkenly uneven are the grind lines??"
I would never have asked "does the harpoon grind make a extreme bend from right to left so much that it looks like each end is flat grouns from a different angle"
How bent is the blade???
Viewed from the spine how many degrees off is the tip?
Does a single grind line match up with another anywhere on the blade or handle?
Extreme examples, but I've been really burned a few times!
I've also sold used knives and had buyers contact me to say the knife was way better than I described (had that happen with used vehicles I've sold as well).
Pictures and descriptions paired to accurately describe and show the knife.
I don't thin i should have to ask, as a buyer, "how drunkenly uneven are the grind lines??"
I would never have asked "does the harpoon grind make a extreme bend from right to left so much that it looks like each end is flat grouns from a different angle"
How bent is the blade???
Viewed from the spine how many degrees off is the tip?
Does a single grind line match up with another anywhere on the blade or handle?
Extreme examples, but I've been really burned a few times!
I've also sold used knives and had buyers contact me to say the knife was way better than I described (had that happen with used vehicles I've sold as well).
Pictures and descriptions paired to accurately describe and show the knife.
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